CONGRESS SHOULD REEXAMINE THE PRESIDENTIAL INABILITY BILL

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• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP67B00446R000500170029-8
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• Document Creation Date: December 15, 2016
• Document Release Date: October 9, 2003
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• Publication Date: June 30, 1965
• Content Type: OPEN

ZanBressianaL Record
of America PROCEEDINGS AND, DEBATES OF THE S9tn CONGRESS, FIRST SESSION
Vol. 111 WASHINGTON, WEDNESDAY, JUNE 30, 1965
House of Rehresentatives
No. 118
The House met at 12, o'clock noon. REREFERRAL OF SENATE JOINT PRESIDENTIA]d INABILITY AND VA-
The.Chaplain, Itev. Bernard Braskamp, RESOLUTION 1 TO COMMITTEE CANCIES IN THE OFFICE OF THE
D,D? offered the following prayer: ON CONFERENCE VICE PRESIDENT
I Thessalonians 5: 21: Prove all things;
hold last that which is good. Mr. CELLER. Mr. Speaker, I ask Mr. CELLER submitted the following
Most merciful and gracious God, may unanimous consent that the conference conference report and statement on the
Thy servants daily, sense Thy presence report on Senate Joint Resolution 1, con- joint resolution (S.J. Res. 1) proposing
and power in this Chamber as they seek . cerning the amendment involving Presi- an amendment to the Constitution of
to discharge their duties.-and _.responsi- dential inability, be referred to the com- the United States relating to succession
bilittes with wisdom and understanding, mittee on conference because of a to the Presidency and Vice-Presidency
with fidelity and fortitude, technical error in copying, and to cases where the President is un-
We bumlaly beseech Thee, that when The SPEAKER. The gentleman from able to discharge the powers and duties
moods of anxiety and doubt lay hold New York requests unanimous consent of his office.
upon us we maybe assured that Thou that Senate Joint Resolution 1 be
wilt strengthen, and guide us in our of recommitted to the committee on con- CONFERENCE REPORT (REPORT No. 564)
The committee of conference on the dis-
forts and endeavors to safeguard our ference.
heritage of freedom and share it with all Mr. POFF. Mr. Speaker, resew' amend agreeing ment of votes the of Houses on
e the House to two the joint joint re the
mankind, soln-
the right to object, and I. shall not ot tton (S.J. Res. 1) proposing an amendment
Show us how we may be channels of object, I am familiar with the reason for to the Constitution of the United States re-
hLS
ir
tl
d i
g
on an
a
nstruments of help and
hope to all who are longing and laboring
for the dawning,ofthat.,brighter and
better day when a,nobler. a dmore mag-
nanimous spirit shall rule the mind of
man and all natiolrsshall follow the, ways
of reason and righteousness.
Hear us in Christ's name. Amen.
tion of objection.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from New
York?
There was no Objection,
The Journal of the Proceedings of THE UNITED STATES WITHRE-
yesterday was read and approved. SPELT TO THE EXEMPTION FROM
THE JOURNAL.'.
MESSAGE FROM THE SENATE
A message from the Senate by Mr.
Arrington, one of its clerks, announced
that the Senate had passed, with amend-
ments in which the concurrence of the
House is requested, a bill of the House
of the following title:
H.R. 8147. An act to amend the tariff
schedules of the United States with respect
to the exemption from duty for returning
residents, and for other purposes.
The message also announced that the
Senate insists upon its amendments to
the foregoing bill, requests a conference
with the House on the disagreeing votes
of the two Houses thereon, and appoints
Mr. BYRn of Virginia, Mr._Igxc of Louisi-
ana, Mr. SMATnEa$, Mr, CARLSON, and
Mt.,MORTON to b* .the conferees on the
part of the Senate.
DUTY FOR RETURNING RESI;-
DENTS AND FOR OTHER PUR-
POSES
Mr. MILLS. Mr. Speaker, I ask unan-
imous consent to take from the
lating to succession to the Presidency and
Vice-Presidency and to cases where the Pres-
ident is unable to discharge the powers and
duties of his office, having met, after full and
free conference, have agreed to recommend
and do recommend to their respective Houses
as follows:
That the Senate recede from its disagree-
ment to the amendment of the House and
agree to the same with an amendment as 101-
I W8: In lieu of the matter proposed to be in-
serted by the House amendment insert the
following:
"That the following article is proposed as
an amendment to the Constitution of the
United States, which shall be valid to all In-
tents and purposes as part of the Constitu-
tion when ratified by the legislatures of
three-fourths of the several States within
seven years from the date of its submission
by the Congress:
-.'ARTICLE -
Speaker's table the bill (H.R. 8147) to "amend the tariff schedules of the United President sECrt from m office In case
or of his the d aeth or r ig-
-
StateSwith respect to the exemption nation, , the Vice President t shall l become Presi-
from duty for returning residents, and dent.
for other purposes, with Senate amend- "'SEC. 2. Whenever there is a vacancy in
ment5 thereto, disagree to the Senate the Office of the Vice President, the President
shall nominate a Vice President who shall
amendments, and agree to the confer- take office upon confirmation by a majority
ence asked by the Senate, vote of both Houses of Congress.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection "'Sea s. Whenever the President trans-
to the request of the gentleman from mits to the President pro tempore of the
Senate and the Speaker of the House of Rep-
Arkansas? resentatives his written declaration that he
The Chair hears none, and appoints Is unable to discharge the powers and duties
the following conferees: Messrs. MILLS, of his office, and until he transmits to them
KING of California, Boces, BYRNES of a Written declaration to the contrary, such
powers and duties shall be discharged by the
Wisconsin, and CVRTIS. VICC President as Acting President.
14665
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- -
-
Q- phe Prestnent pro tempore w e.ne - -- -- ---------
-
eand the Speaker of the House Of transmittal be to the President pro tempura President to assume the powers and duties
0i the Senate and the Speaker of the House of his office.
_ I -,_--.
o
polders all duties of his once, the vme e rid al for receipt of the President's written dec- JAMES C. CORMAN,
dent shall immediately assume the Powers is ration of his inability that such
'Thereafter wnen powers WIMSAM M. MCCtLLOOH,
and duties the office Acting President trans- President. aad duties would then be discharged by the RICHARD H. POST,
mite to the President pro temper, of the Vice President as Acting President. The Managers on the Part of the house.
Senate and the speaked of the House Of House version provided the same provision Mr. CELLER. Mr. Speaker, I ask
e::cept it added the clause "and until he
his written declaration that a written declaration to the con- unanimous consent for the immediate
mits
t
rans
no Inability
no Inability exists, he shall resume the tsar The conference report adopts the consideration of the conference report
powers and duties of his office unless the House language with one minor change for on the joint resolution (S. J. Res. 1) pro-
Vice President and a majority of either the purposes of clarification by adding the phrase posing an amendment to the Constitu-
principal officers of the executive depart- A them", meaning the President pro tem-
merit or of Such other body as Congress may iron of the United States relating to
pore of the Senate and the Speaker of the
by law provide, transmit within four days Pnuse succession to the Presidency and Vice-
to the President pro tempera of the Senate The first paragraph of section 4, outside of Presidency and to cases where the Presi-
and the Speaker of the House of Representa- a lopting the language of the House desig- dent is unable to discharge the powers
tives their written declaration that the Pros- rating the recipient of the letter of trans- and duties of his office, and I ask unan-
tdent is unable to Tljererge the powers and nottal be the President pro tempore of the imous consent that the statement of the
dutle8 0$' his office. Therevhori Congress shall Eenate and the Speaker of the House of managers on the part of the House be
decide the issue. Resembling within forty- Pepr lives, minor change in language read in lieu of the report.
eight hours for that n a"if not in session. was made made for purposes of clarification. The Clerk read the title of the joint
If the Congress, within twenty-one days In the Senate version there was a specific
after receipt of the latter written declare- section; namely, section 5, dealing with the resolution.
'lion, or, it Congress is nit In session, within lruceddre that when the President sent to The SPEAKER. Is there objection
twenty-one days after Congress Is required to the congress his written declaration that to the request of the gentleman from
Assemble, determines bony: two-thirds vote of le was no longer disabled he could resume New York?
both. Houses that the President is unable to the powers and duties of his office unless the There was no objection.
discharge the powers and duties of his office, lice President and a majority of the princi- The Clerk read the statement.
the Vice President shall continue to dls- pal officers of the executive departments, (For COrlferede report and statement,
charge the same as Acting President; other- cr such other body as the Congress might
e, the President shall resume the powers by law provide, transmit within 7 days to see proceedings of the House of today.)
and duties of his office.", the designated officers of the Congress their Mr. CEISLER. Mr. Speaker, today we
Andthe House agree to the same. tfritten declaration thatn the President is write on the tablets of history. We
_ _ ._ _ , __-_ t end duties _~_ nnneS+ 1.1 n ...Mph :ind-
ould
s e
e.
BYRON O. RoGERS t2 his Omer. lnereupuf. Luc ..ongr~w ..
stone, speagmg ill loss, unucu a
1IAhtES, C. C6IiMAx, Immediately proceed to decide the issue. It most wonderful work struck off at a
rA:. >,x xk..n,.,. ocH itrrther provided that if the Congress deter- on the 1,pi1 and mnrvxa e. of
Wa
L
gers on the part of the Rouse. i+.e President .,. ,..?.,--_ ._
'Hnt0H E. HAYS, Jr., ]lowers and duties of his office, the Vice Pres- The United States has two great sYm-
One Is
ident would continue to discharge the same boll of her freedlom and liberty.
~
JAMES O N
,AsrLAwn SAM J. Env& Jr., us Acting President; otherwise, the President the Declaration of Independence and the
?uould resume the powers and duties of his other Is the Constitution. The Declara-
M:OMAx L. naps.., - The House version combined sections 4 and
Managers on the Part of the Senate. Constitution is its Working instrument.
$ into one section, now section
Under It gives action to that faith.
a
r not t
-- -
..
The managers on the part of the House says in which to decide whe,,..er o
conference on the disagreeing votes lend a letter stating that he and a majority that can compare with our Constitution.
at the
Of the two Houses on the amendment of the of the officers of the executive departments, It is the touchstone of our prowess and
house to the bill (S J. Res. 1) proposing an or such other body as Congress may by law progress as a nation. Most countries
amendment to the Constitution of the provide that the President is unable to dis- envy us our Constitution.
United States relating to succession to the charge the powers and duties of his office. The Constitution has such elasticity
Presidency and Vice-Presidency and to cases The conference report provides that the pe-
riod of time for the transmittal of the letter that lit remains vital throughout the
must be within 4 days. decades, but it is not immutable. It is
the powers and duties of his office, submit
the following statement In explanation of The Senate provision did not provide for not written in stone on Mount Sinai.
the effect of the action agreed upon by the the convening of the Congress to decide this Associate Supreme Court Justice
conferees and recommended in the accom- Issue if it was not In session; the House Oliver Wendell Holmes once said:
'panying conference report: provided that the Congress must convene for The Constitution is an experiment, as all
The House passed House Joint Resolu- this specific purpose of deciding the Issue life is an experiment. If new contingencies
tion 1 and then substituted the provisions within 48 hours after the receipt of the writ-
It arise the Constitution must be made to fit
had adopted by striking out all after the ten declaration that the President is still aria he interpretation of fearless
enacting clause and inserting all of its pro- disabled. The conference report adopts iris judges either by
aware of historical perspective or
visions in Senate Joint Resolution 1. The language of the House. by amendment.
Senate insisted upon its version and re- ' The Senate provision placed no time limn-
qu?ated a conference; the House then agreed tation on the Congress for determining Jefferson called the Constitution the
to the conference, The conference report whether or not the President was still die- ark of our safety and grand palladium of
'recommends that the Senate recede from Its shied. The House version provided that our peace and happiness." He also said:
disagreement' to the House amendment and determination by the Congress must be
agree to the same with an amendment, the made within 10 days after the receipt of lyande to must cure be what content to evil in accept it, of its hereafter good
ood
amendment being to Insert in lieu of the the written declaration of the Vice President 1788) IS
d to
matter Inserted by the House amendment and a majority of the principal officers of
the matter agreed to by the conferees and the executive departments, or such other years later, in 1823, he said:
thatthe House agree thereto. body as Congress may by law provide. The The States are now so numerous that I
In substance, the conference report con- conference report adopts the principle of lim- deslowir of ever seeing another amendment to
tams substantially the language of the -lting the period of time within which the the Constitution; although Innovations of
House amendment with a few exceptions. Congress must determine the issue, and time
. Co will certainly can and now already call
Sections 1 and 2 of the proposed constltu- While the House original version was 10 days for some.
tional amendment were not In disagree- and the Senate version an unlimited period
meat. However, in sections 3 Said 4, the of time, the report requires a final deter- Note his pre>cienee.
Senate provided that the transmittal of the ruination within 21 days. The 21-day pe- Let it be emphasised; we never should
:ratification of a President's Inability be to riod, if the Congress is in session, runs from
ea f receipt of the letter. It further amend this charter for light or tran-
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sieh@"'reasons. Only for just cause the possibility of congressional approval would operate in favor of the President
shown should we attempt any change. of the Vice President's challenge. The elected by the people.
What we do today Is epoch making. We House version did not acuate the The conference report adopts the con-
offer an amendment for an overriding mechanics of sections 4 and 5. Rather, it cept of a time limitation but increases
reason. was felt that a distinction should be the time limit from 10 days to 21 days,
I would like to remind the Members made between section 3 authorizing and if the Congress Is in recess when the
that the House Committee on the Ju- voluntary withdrawal of the President Vice President's challenge is received,
diciary has been studying this problem and section 4 authorizing involuntary re- then the 21 days begin to run from the
since 1955 and has examined It from moval of the President by the Vice Presi- day Congress reconvenes.
every conceivable angle.. We have had dent. The House felt that the President No one should assume that House in-
the benefit of the testimony of political would be reluctant to utilize section 3 if sistence upon a time limit was a criticism
scientists, constitutional ..experts, the to do so exposed himself to the pas- of the Senate. It is true that the rules
American Bar Association, and other sibility of the Vice Presidential chal- of the other body permit unlimited de-
groups who had no motive other than to lenge and congressional action when he bate and a small minority of Senators
serve this country by closing a gap decided to resume the office. Accord- hostile to the President and loyal to the
which had existed, since the adoption of ingly, section 3 of the House version pro- Vice President as Acting President could,
the Constitution.,, vided that the President who used the in the absence of a time limit, make a
The Constitution was silent, too si- provisions of section 3 could promptly great deal of public mischief at a most
lent concerning presidential inability. restore himself to his office simply by critical time in the life of the Nation. It
Tragic events had cast ominous shadows transmitting a written declaration to the is no less true that such mischief could be
which we dared no longer disregard. two Houses of Congress. wrought by a small dedicated band of
The assassin's bullet and possible nu- The conference report-after adding enemies of the President in the House.
clear holocaust forced action. two words of clarification-accepted the By tedious invocation of the technical
We, the conferees worked dispassion- House version. rules of procedure, that little band could
ately and with searching inquiry after The second major difference between frustrate action on the Vice President's
both Houses had responded to the call the two versions was in the mechanics of challenge for a protracted period of time,
for action. We met in, numerous con- restoration in sections 4 and 5. In the during which the Vice President would
eTaves and finally rounded out differ- Senate version, the Vice President as continue to serve as Acting President and
ences. We labored' hard and patiently. Acting President, was allowed 7 days in the President, knocking on his own door
We accepted the pace of Nature, for is which to make a decision about chal- for readmission, would be kept standing
not patience her secret? We examined lenging the President's declaration of outside. If this little band happened to
all contingencies and possibilities. We restoration. The House version was 2 be one more than half the membership
present a solution that is ample, wise, days. By way of compromise, the con- of the House, their task would be much
and practicable. ference report recommends 4 days. The easier, because they could simply meet
May I at this time pay tribute to the conferees intend that the 4-day period and adjourn every third day without any
gentleman from Ohio [Mr, McCvLaocu] be interpreted as an outside limitation on action at all. Thus, more than half but
and the gentleman from Virginia [Mr. the time in which the Vice President may less than two-thirds could effectively ac-
Pon'], both on the Republican side, and consider making a challenge; it is not complish by inaction the same thing it
to the, gentleman from Colorado [Mr. necessary that the President wait 4 would take two-thirds to accomplish by
Rocessl and the gentleman from Cali- days to resume his office if he and the vote if there is no time limit in the Cn-
fornia [Mr. CORMANI on the Democratic Vice President mutually agree that he do stitution. The conference committee
side-all conferees-who rendered so earlier. understood this danger and that is why
painstaking and dedicated and wise The third major difference involves a the 21-day provision is in the conference
services in the conference. They were of procedural uncertainty which Speaker report.
Immeasurable help in the conference MCCORMACK during House debate rec- Several matters need to be clearly
with the Senators. I am deeply grateful ognized might cause calamitous con- established by legislative history. First
to them. sequences. Under the Senate version, the of all, the conferees unanimous)
Mr. POFF. Mr. Speaker, the confer- Vice President's challenge of the Presi- that the 21-da y intend
y period be coidered an
ence report represents a compromise. dent's declaration of restoration had the outside limitati
on and shouldnin no wise
That word should be understood not as effect of submitting the dispute between be interpreted to encourage a delay
an apology for a concession but as a the two men to the Congress for settle- longer than necessary. Indeed, in the
justification for an achievement, an ment. However, it simply instructed face of such a crisis as the Nation would
achievement In the highest traditions of Congress "to immediately proceed to de- face at a time when section 4 would be-
legislative and constitutional crafts- cide the issue." This left unclear what come operable, the Conferees feel that
manship. It is an accommodation and delay might occur in the event the Con- both Houses of Congress should act with
an accord of viewpoints which once were gress was in recess when it received the the least possible delay.
widely divergent and now, happily, are Vice President's challenge. Under the Secondly, the conferees unanimously
concordant. The business of the Nation, House version, the Congress, if not in intend that should one House of the
left unattended for a century because session, is required to assemble "within Congress proceed to a vote on the Vice
too controversial, has been performed -48 hours" to decide the issue. President's challenge and less than two-
and the controversy has been resolved. The conference report accepts the thirds of its Members vote to uphold the
Aside from minor, relatively incon- House version.
ef-
sequential language differences, the The fourth major difference is a con- fact tlof resto restoring the President immedi-
House version and the Senate version ceptual difference. Under the Senate ately to his office, even though the other
were substantially equivalent in all but version, the Congress having received the House has not yet acted.
four major particulars. Vice President's challenge was empow- Mr. Speaker, I have no fear but that
The first major difference was in sec- ered to act upon it and if it upheld the this conference report will be adopted
tion 3. That is the section under which challenge by a two-thirds vote, the Vice by a two-thirds vote. But I am
the President can voluntarily vacate his President would continue to hold office prompted to express the hope and the
office and vest the Vice President as Act- as Acting President; otherwise, the Presi- plea that it will be adopted by a unani-
Ing President with the powers and duties dent would resume his office. The House mous vote, and with such a congressional
of his office. The difference was in the version was essentially the same except blessing, the proposal would, I am con-
mechanics of resumption of power by the that it imposed a 10-day limitation upon fident, be ratified by three-fourths of the
President. Under the Senate version, congressional action. It said that if the States before the end of next year.
the mechanics outlined in sections 4 and Congress did challenge within 10 days Mr. BOLAND. Mr. Speaker, I would
5, would apply. Those -mechanics in- after receipt, then the President would like to take this opportunity to associate
vDryedjirst, a declaration of restoration resume his office. The House approach myself with the distinguished majority
by the President; second, an Opportunity guaranteed that any delay on the part of leader and minority whip in expressing
for a challenge by the Vice President Congress, whether accidental and un- my gratitude and admiration for the
transmitted to the Congress; and third, avoidable or intentional and purposeful, chairman of the Committee on the Judi-
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Wd 8 n!i~ i5 At;AKPnMn_02HOUSER
9003/1 0/77 ~trS i 70
Annr nr Rclnam -
solace- -
diary and the dean of the house, the ~~-??r --
gentleman from New York [Mr. CELLERI. talized for 6 weeks. GROSS
The proposed amendment to the Constl-
Today is a very suitable occasion: for tutfon also covers a vacancy in the vice-Pres- (Mrs. BOLTON asked and was given
we have just given final House approval Ideney. It provides that the President shall permission to address the House for 1
to a Proposed constitutional amendment nominate a Vice President who shall take minute and to revise and extend her
making necessary provisions for the con- office upon confirmation by a majority vote remarks,)
tinuance of orderly government and of both Houses of Congress. This is the Mrs. BOLTON. Mr. Speaker, may I
Executive responsibility in the ease of first provision ever made for filling such a have the attention of the House?
Presidential disability or a vacancy in gap, which has existed often in this country. 1 rise today to ask all of you to Pay
Not many, probably, realize it, but in the 176
the Vice-Presidency. 'This legislation ex- years since John Adams became the first vice honor to a man whom I have grown to
hibits the genius and diligence which president of the United States, the Nation admire very much. He is one of the
have been characteristic Of all the un- has functioned without a Vice President on hornets in the House. He is one of the
dertakings of Mr. CELLER in his many 16 occasions for a total of 37 years, which is most hard working men, if not the most
years of service to the Nation and to roughly one-fifth of the time the Federal hard working :man, in the House. He is
this House. Government has been in operation. very much beloved by many people and
His decades of service in the National - Here is what happened to Vice Presidents he is just not liked too much by others.
who failed to complete their terms: George
Congress, his noteworthy legal career, Clinton died April 20, 1812, 10 months before But he is a wonderful person and he is a
said a sound understanding of the neces- his term expired; Elbridge Gerry died No- marvelous Membe k obtr. Ile os an example
sities and needs of the American Con- vember 23, 1814, 2 years before his term all
This is his birthday. I hope
the e Ho House tse a aid to recognized make expired; Calhoun
b28, 132, With 2 months to oserve, to be- much that you will join me in wishing
our ' drncleaan of have all
come a U.S. Senator; John Tyler became him many more years of the service he
leader in legal and Constitutional mat- President April 6, 1841, almost 4 years before has been rendering, assuring him of our
ters, and a siiokesman who must be his term expired, replacing President Wil- appreciation rendering,
his amazing capacity,
heard. This House has heard Mr. CELLER _ Liam H. Harrison, who died; Millard Fill-
and his Judiciary Committee in approv- more became President July 10, 1850, 2 years his :Loyalty, and his patriotism.
ing this legislation today. This is a great and 8 months before his term expired, sue- I give you the distinguished gentle-
tribute to the chairman and his commit- ceeding Prresid King dac ary Taylor, 8ho died; man from Iowa, H. R. GROSS. iiam R. ied April tee who have gone' a long way toward almost 4 years to serve; Andrew Johnson -~-
,effecting eventual incorporation of this became President April 16, 1865, with 3 years A MEMORABLE DAY
greatly needed provision into our COIL- and 11 months to serve, replacing President
stitution. - - - Abraham Lincoln, who was assassinated; (Mr. ALBERT asked and was given
gr, Speaker, I include with my remarks Henry Wilson died in office November 22, permission to address the House for 1
at this point in the RECORD an editorial 1875, term; r and Chester m nth, b efore the end minat and to revise and extend his re-a taken from the 0, 1965, Springfield[, Mass Meds","Dhen dent September 20, 1881, with 3 years and Mr. ALBERT. Mr. Speaker, this is a became - News of June 29, 1965, entitled 5 months to serve, succeeding President memorable day in the history of the
the President Is Disabled": James A. Garfield, who was assassinated; House and in the life of one of the most
WHEN THE'TRESTOENT Is Dr9ASLED Thomas A. Hendricks died November 25, 1885, distinguished men. ever to serve in the
A compromise formula for correcting a' with 3 years and 3 months to serve; Gar-
major flaw in the Constitution of the United ret A. Hobart died November 21, 1899, a year House. The House has just adopted the
States; namely, the lack of a provision for and 3 months before his term expired; Thee- conference report the constitutional
is
filling the Vice-Presidency when the office dore Roosevelt became President SeTtem- amendment dealing io, which been
becomes vacant or for making the Vice Pres- her 14, 1901, with 3 years and 6 months to disability mc managed and c sssionn wh h has ee-
ident a temporary Acting President In case serve, when President William McKinley managed from
dean its b the House, , the hend the
is-
the President of the Ignited States Should be. was murdered; James A. Sherman died Octo-
come disabled, has been reached by Senate her 30, 1912 4 months before his term ex- man from dean York [Mr. ,the gi
and House conferees: It will now go before pired; Calvin Coolidge became President New CELLERI. and 7
is the
signifi
nths
Warren G. oHardi g fact; that thihistorical
'Congress for approval and then to the State[ erv , when2 year
is the third co stit tional s for ratification. died; Harry S. Truman became President amendment which has been shepherded
The es ten plan would operate Wills, tern April 12, 1945, with 3 years and 9 months to through the House by our distinguished
It the President felt 'himself unable if per serve, when President Franklin D. Roosevelt friend from New York. He also authored
Speaker his of the ? would simply notify tin es a: and died; and Lyndon B. Johnson became Presi- and brought out of
thPresident House of Representatives dent November 23, 1963, with a year and 2 his committee and
would i months to serve, when President John F. through the House the constitutional
the dbiit pro tom Vice e of the President Senate
his take over m eVicing di Kennedy was assassinated. amendment dealing with poll taxes and
then take the event' of aly as President so e- A way has now been found to overcome a the constitutional amendment dealing
able sn the event' of a notify Congress o- serious constitutional weakness. It may not with the right of citizens of the District
hs to be unable to ldtref refuse to admit ii be ideal, but it is far preferable to the of Columbia to vote In presidential elec-
his disability d
he i& disa be ban- present void. It deserves prompt approval ti0'ne This is a great milestone in the
he disabled, , the situation shouldituation would Would b ad
tiled this `way.. The Vice President and 3 by Congress and ratification by the States. legislative career of one of our Members,
majority of the members of the President's Mr. CELLER. Mr. Speaker, I move Mr. BOGGS. Mr. Speaker, will the
Cabinet would sign a written declaration the previous question on the conference gentleman yield?
that the President 'was disabled and sen3 report. previous ALBERT. I will be glad to yield
the t world then Congress. The vice Puree- The previous question was ordered. to the gentleman.
just as though then d President Acting Pselfd had like to join in
just a t is oWn is ili ydent himself has The SPEAKER. The question is on the tribute that ouro dirt nguished ma-
:declared his owdisability. the conference report.
The need for this constitutional amend- The question was taken; and (two- jor?ity leader is paying to the dean of
mint Is generally accepted. On at least too thirds having voted in favor thereof) the House of Representatives. In the
occasions, because there wasno such prov.- the conference report was agreed to. first, place, this is a most significant
-Sion, the executive' branch of the Federal A motion to reconsider was laid on the amendment to our Constitution. I had
Government has tieen virtually paralyzed table. the responsibility of serving on the As-
,because oe this constitutional lack. Presi- sassination Commission. One of the
alarming things about that sad duty was
[lent James A. `Garfield lived for 80 days M.
ter being shot in 1881, but his Vice President GENERAL LEAVE TO EXTEND the fact that we had not adequately pro-
ident felt he had Woodrow not the right wilko n ht to served take for 18 over. m Pressonths Mr. CELLER. Mr. Speaker, I ask lilted for the succession of the Chief of
while paralyzed with a stroke, but many ba- unanimous consent that - all Members State of the United States of America.
lleve that his wife and the Cabinet really have 5 legislative days in which to ex- The
other Pilli who w distinguished gentleman has done
governed. There who war also the disabled. of two tend their remarks in the RECORD on the an outstanding job. I think there is no Pfeil- efor a days ays
dent nt William m McKinley survived f. conference report just agreed to. Member more beloved than MANNY CEL
York. -
of N
to LER
ection
halt .d business
recent q, the request of the gentleman from New with himew on occasion as all of d usga are shot g inclined to disagree with one another.
after nment came to in'1901, an
Approve f F L S "" ~2D 1$61QA61 5eo170029-8 But no person could conceivably ques-
coronary roar os s 5 as H
 Jude 30 Yd9~5 C~Cb1GRE"SIONAL RECORD - HOUSE 14749
ppro'e or Release 2003 1 / CAA-RDP67B00446R000500170029-8
patent men, and I have a high regard for would be a serious mistake to pass the Mr. GONZALEZ. Mr. Speaker, today
them. Their only trouble is that they Just bill in its present form. is the fifth anniversary of the independ-
think differently than people in the mining I was one of the first Members of Con- ence of the Congo which came June
Industries.
And we have confidence as do our friends gress to introduce legislation on the sub- 30, 1960, after 85 years of Belgian rule.
,
in the Congress, that eventually we will jest of a vacancy in the office of the Vice It is only fitting that we pause to pay
change their thinking. 0therwise we would Presidency. My bill, House Joint Reso- tribute to the Democratic Republic of
have quit long ago. We also have confidence lution 893, was introduced on January the Congo and the struggle of her people.
that our Chief Executive shares our beliefs 21, 1964, and I reintroduced the same The Congo, which is located in the
`regarding the need foF strong and healthy bill as House Joint Resolution 53 on south-central part of the African Con-
mining industries, for he so often so ex- January 4, 1965, the first day of the tinent, and covers an area of about
pressed himself when he was the distin- 89th Congress. But the bill that was 904,747 square miles, was first the per-
guished leader of the Senate--and that in
due bourse his beliefs will be reflected in a passed goes too far. My bill covered only serial property of the Belgian King-
changed attitude among the several admin the problem of a vacancy in the office from 1885 to 1908-and then as a Bel-
istrative departments. of the Vice Presidency. The procedure gian colony.
Now, the question is, What can you do, or for filling this vacancy described in my Prior to 1959, when the Belgian Gov-
should you do, or what must you dos bill was substantially incorporated in ernment decided to grant Independence
I believe we are coming closer to the the one that passed. to the Congo, the Belgian administration
establishment of a national minerals policy, But it was not originally intended by concentrated on economic development
and I believe that each and every one who the proponents of an amendment to close and social improvement. The result was
has knowledge of and a stake in a minerals industrial
industry should have a part in establishing this gap in the law that Congress also the growth of the greatest
that policy by making his views known on go into the area of presidential inability. concentration and the most extensive
the many matters that relate to the deriva- The provisions of the bill covering presi- primary educational system in tropical
tion of such a policy. dential inability are objectionable and Africa. A class of skilled and semi-
This you can do by establishing a cor- should not be enacted for several rea- skilled workers and office personnel was
responding relationship with your own con- sons. First, the bill provides for the developed although the vast bulk of the
gressional Representatives. You will be sur-
prised transfer of executive power from the population remained dependent upon
at the impact your interest will have President to the Vice President in times subsistence agriculture.
on them.
Why not start by asking your Congressman of presidential inability with the Presi- Due to this strong background the
to find you a copy of house Concurrent Reso- dent's consent or against his will. There Congo was given a better than average
lution 177, and ask him if he doesn't think is a vagueness in the language of this chance compared to some other nations
it is about time something constructive was section which I believe should not be in- that have just recently been given their
done about it. . corporated into the Constitution. For independence.
Why not ask him how he feels about the example, nowhere is the term "inability" Similar to other newly independent
Congress relinquishing Its control of stock- defined. In an area as crucial and con- nations there has been during these last
piles to the executive branch of the Gov-
ernment, of as is now being proposed in certain sequential as 5 years there have been many rebellions,
quarters. United States, such a lack of definition changes in the government, and many
Why not find out how he feels about lead can be disastrous. Vagueness in the national leaders including Patrice Lu-
and zinc quotas or the relaxation of quotas language of the bill appears again in the mumba, Joseph Kasavubu, and Moise
on rest iial fuel oil. reference to "the principal officers of Tshombe, who was chosen as Prime Min-
Find out how he feels about these and the executive departments, or such other ister by President Kasavubu on July 10,
any other matters that relate to the general body as Congress may by law provide." 1964.
welfare of domestic mining and to the evolu- No one has ever spelled out or explained
tion of the long-range policy. But, more to my satisfaction exactly what is meant play the ay the be most may be the important role man in who restorwill
importantly, be sure to let your Representa-
tive know how you feel about these things. by the phrase "such other body." ing the eastern Congo.
Your opinions are what will count. Second, and the most serious flaw in
African
The actions of the Federal Government, the bill, in my judgment, is the almost By comparison
exports with and other the general
ric
whether they be actions of the executive unchecked ease with which the Presi-
branch or of the Congress will henceforth dent can be removed by either an un- economy of the Congo, are more diversi-
have profound bearing on the business you scrupulous or mistaken subordinate. fied and more developed. In short, the
are in and whether that business survives, Third, is the possible confusion as to Congo has the highest wages and the
disappears, or prospers. Believe me, it takes who or which administration is in charge highest literacy rate in tropical Africa,
more than will and skill to be a miner these produces 8 percent of the world's copper
days. To cover nil of the facets of your of the Government once the mechanism and most of the world's cobalt and in-
in-
business today you must recognize that Po- of the bill goes into operation. dustrial diamonds, and has a vigorous
litical considerations will have as much bear- I understand that today, on the floor and competitive agriculture.
mg on your future as will scientific advance- of the Senate, Senator RorERT KENNEDY
ment. You must keep abreast of both and addressed himself to this problem and to U.S. aid given directly to the Congo,
neglect , neither. Witte papers about the the matter of the Presidential inability or to the United Nations for its tech-
n,,17 icinuc nancrnlly_ Fiver since I cast nical assistance and peacekeeping activi-
CONGRESS SHOULD REEXAMINE woe"? ~ .. ---W `ree i ed 1964. The objective of this program has
smehow the bill woul d d be eexamined been to help the Congo maintain its in-
THE PRESIDENTIAL INABILITY BILL and changed before enacted Into law. I
(Mr. GONZALEZ (at the request of still hope and pray that it will not be dependence and territorial integrity
Mr. FOLEY) was granted permission to enacted in its present form. While achieving economic stability and
extend his remarks at this point in the I implore the Members of this House, an improved administration. Given a
RECORD and to include extraneous mat- and especially the majority and minority degree of tranquility and continued as-
ter.) leadership, to restudy this bill, to give sistance while training its own cadres of
Mr. GONZALEZ, Mr. Speaker, when pause before it is finally approved, and qualified experts, the Congo has bright
the Presidential inability bill, House to clear up the ambiguities and vague- prospects of being one of the most pros-
- perous countries in Africa.
ist
I su
h I b
li
hi
eve now ex
p
.
c
e
Joint Resolution 1, was brought up on ness w
the floor of the House on April 13, 1965, port Senator KENNEDY In his effort to
I was one of the 29 Representatives who slow down the wheels of Congress and to
voted against it. My vote on this'pro delay final passage of this bill.
posed constitutional amendment was, in
my opinion, one of the most important CONGO INDEPENDENCE
votes that I have ever cash. Now, after
21/2 months have elapsed since the bill (Mr. GONZALEZ (at the request of Mr.
PORTRAIT OF A DEDICATED PRO-
FESSIONAL SOLDIER-LT. GEN.
JAMES P. BERKELEY
(Mr. HENDERSON (at the request of
Mr. FOLEY) was granted permission to
was passed by the House, I feel even FOLEY) was granted permission to extend extend his remarks at this point in the
stronger In my conviction that this mat- his remarks at this point in the RECORD RECORD and to include extraneous
ter ought to be reconsidered and that it and to Include extraneous matter) matter.)
Approved For Release 2003/10/22 CIA-RDP67B00446R000500170029-8
 Appr for Release 2003/10/22: W4R*6MMlP700$JSE June 30, 1965
YvTr, HENYSERSON. Mr. Speaker, to- with the 46th British Infantry Division The general's medals include: the
day the Nation reluctantly releases from at the Salerno landing, September 9, Legion of Merit with Combat "V," the-
!active military duty and returns to pri- 1943. In November 1943 he reported to Marine Corps Good Conduct Medal, the
,vale life and well-deserved retirement Camp Pendleton, Calif, where he corn Presidential Unit Citation, the Marine
Lt. Gen. James P. Berkeley, U.S. Marine manded the field signal battalion prior Corps Expeditionary Medal, the Second
Corps. 16 becoming signal officer of the 5th Ma- Nicaraguan Campaign Medal, the
Lt. Gen. James Phillips Berkeley as- fine Division in February 1944. Yangt2e Service Medal, the American
Minted his current assignment as corn- Sailing again for the Pacific area that Defense Service Medal with fleet clasp,
manding general, Fleet Marine Force, August, Lieutenant Colonel Berkeley the American Campaign Medal, the
Atlantlq at Norfolk, Va., August 1, 1963, served as 5th Division signal officer in European-African-Middle Eastern Cam-
following his promotion to his present Yiawaii and at Iwo Jima. Be also paign Medal with one bronze star, the
rank. Sfrved as executive officer of the 27th Asiatlc-Pacific Campaign Medal with
The general was born July 1, 1907, at Marines, 5th Marine Division, at Iwo one bronze star, the World War II Vic-
Portsmouth, Va. Heattended school at Jima in March 1945, and in Hawaii dur- tory Medal, the Navy Occupation Serv-
,Bhepherdstown, W. Vs, and Severn Pre- jng the following 2 months. For out- ice Medal with Asia clasp, the National
lfaratory School. He enlisted in the standing service on Iwo Jima, he was Defense Service Medal, the Korean
Marine Corps on March 1, 1921, and a%wwarded the InLeg I Legion of Merit with Com- Service Medal, the United Nations Serv-
aerved in Nicaragua from January to y 1945 he was named ice viedal
and the Nicaraguan Medal of
,
December 1928.. After almost 3 years as gignal officer of the 5th Amphibious Merit.
an enlisted man, he was commissioned a Corps, serving in that capacity in Ha- General Berkeley is married to the
marine second lieutenant on January 31, w,ali and Japan. He was promoted to former Margaret L Griffiths of Phila-
1030, at the marine Barracks, Washing- polonel the following month. delphia, Pa. The general's parents are
ton, D.C. Colonel Berkeley served as officer in deceased. His father was the late Maj.
Zleutenant Berkeley was then ordered charge of the disposition of enemy mate- Gen
Randolph C
Berkeley US Marine
.
.
,.. to the Philadelphia Navy Yard, where he rial from October to December 1945, and Corps, of Port Royal, S.C., who was
served as a company officer at the Marine as commander of the 6th Marines, 2d awarded the Medal of Honor for heroism
ll I- for Marine Corps officers in June 19.31. ;946. He returned from Japan in April missile destroyer, the U.S.S. Berkeley,
k'ollowing graduation he served at the 1946
and the following month was launched in July 1961
was named in
,
,
Norfolk Navy Yard in Virginia, before- named Assistant to the Navy Secretary honor of General Berkeley's father.
Sailing for China in April 1932 for duty of the joint Army-Navy Secretariat, Of- General Berkeley has one brother,
With, -the ,Marine detachment at, the flee of the Secretary of the Navy. Wash- Col. Randolph C. Berkeley. Jr.. a Marine
-ed to the Unted States in December ganization until January 1947. It was during his command of the
2934, and was promoted to first lieu- In February 1947, Colonel Berkeley Second Marine Division and his com-
1935 while servin
as
F
bru
nt i
t
g
ary
e
ena
n
.-,-
sailed forBuenos Aires to serve as Am mand of Marine Corps Base Camp Le
a battalion communications officer, with phibious Warfare Adviser to the Argen- jeune, N.C., that I came to know and
the 6th Marine Rcprment at San Diego, tine Naval War College and as an ad- admire Phil Berkeley. Not only was he
Calif. vises to the Argentine Marine Corps. He a military officer of unusual skill and
In May 1935, Lieutenant Berkeley re- returned to the United States in May ability; he was also it warm, human con-
ported to Quantico, Va., where he headed 1949 and, after brief service with the scientious citi2en. His grasp of the
the communications platoons of the L'roop Training Unit, Atlantic, at Little problems and the peculiar situation of
b~l arine Force and the 1st Marine Creek
Zeet
Va
entered the Armed Forces civilians employed on the base was most
.,
,
,
Brigade. Detached from Quantico in Staff College at Norfolk, in August 1949. unusual and during his tour as base com-
August 19364. he entered the Army Signal Completing that course in January 1950, mander, relations between the military
School at Fort Monmouth, N.J., the fol- e reported the following month to the personnel and the civilian community
lowing month. On completing the course Naval War College at Newport, R.I., were outstanding.
'iii June i9~7, he returned to the 1st yvhere he served as a staff member and It was my distinct and profound
Brigade. That September he was pro- latter as assistant head and head of the pleasure during this period to enjoy with
rooted to captain. Department of Strategy and Tactics. Phil Berkeley, not just the relationship
Captain Berkeley headed the 1st 13ri- Leaving Newport in May 1953, Colonel of Congressman and base commander,
gade's communications platoon until Berkeley served in Washington for the but a warm personal friendship which
April 1938, then. served as brigade cum- next, year as commanding officer of the continues to this day.
milnieations, officer until March 1039, Marine Barracks and Director of the Ma- I wish him Godspeed in his future ac-
Whenhe left Quantico to take command tine Corps Institute. He embarked for tivities, and I envy my good friend and
of the Marine detachment aboard the jcprea in June 1954 to become Chief of colleague, PORTER HARDY, JR., whom I un-
U.S.S. Wichita. Returning from sea Staff of the 1st Marine Division and re- derstand will soon have General Berke
duty in June 1941, he was named cum- turned with the division to Camp Pen- ley as a permanent resident in his dis-
umnicataons officer of the Marine Corps ipton the following spring. trict at Norfolk.
Ease at; Quantico. He was serving in - In July 1955, he was promoted to brig-
this post when World War II broke out. adier general and began three years' LT: GEN. JAMES P. BERKELEY,
In January 1942 he was promoted to duty as Assistant Chief of Staff, G-1-
major. personnel-at Headquarters Marine U.S. MARINE CORPS
In March 1942, MajorBerkeley was C.grps, He was promoted to major gen- (Mr. HARDY (at the request of Mr.
ordered to Marine Corps Headquarters, tral in July 1958 on assuming duties as FOLEY) was granted permission to extend
Wasliin$ton, D.C., to serve as assistant commanding general, Department of the his remarks at this point in the RECORD
officer in charge of the communications 'acific, in San Francisco, Calif. and to include extraneous matter.)
in August 1942. 4d Marine Division, Fleet Marine Force, in all good wishes to General Berkeley on
While attached to that section, Lieu- It Camp Lejeune
N.C., from November his retirement. General Berkeley is a
,
. tenant Colonel Berkeley accompanied 1959 until October 1961. In. November native of my district and Yam doubly
the Commandant ,gf the Marine Corps ,961, he became commanding general, pleased that he will continue to reside
on aft inspection tour of Guadalcanal :ifarine Corps Base, Camp Lejeune, sere- in my constituency. It has been a
and other South Pacific, areasin October pg in this capacity until July 1963. On privilege to know him and work with him
and November 1942. , I,te also made an, l.ggust 1, 1963, he assumed duty as com- during his active-duty service and I look
observation tour of the United Kii gdom, panding general, Fleet Marine Force, forward to the continuation of close per-
Africa, and Italy from August to October SSttantic, at Norfolk, Va., with the rank sonal contacts with him during the years
1943, during which he was an observer f lieutenant general, ahead.
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 Jun%pOt v ffibr Release 20f~ES~I F~~6 200~~ ~29-8 14829
gone out of existence this past year, or hearing held there, at which? our people changes, which will alleviate the prob-
have become too old for use. No one could testify. Some of that testimony lem. I am sure he will do so.
has built any new ones. bears out the statements that have been Mr. MAGNUSON. We shall have an-
We have had this bill before the Sen- made on the floor. My junior colleague other go at it.
ate before-as the Senator will remem- from Colorado has also been very much Mr. MILLER. That is a fair approach.
ber-and we used to count noses and interested in this subject. I believe we I thank the chairman for taking action
found out that everyone east of the are moving in the right direction. in support of the bill. I support his ac-
Mississippi would vote against the bill, Mr. DOMINICK. Mr. President, I ap- tion.
and everyone west of the Mississippi preeiate the courtesy of the Senator from Mr. CURTIS. Mr. President, this
would vote for it. There were just more Washington. He has been working on measure is designed to help alleviate the
Senators east of the Mississippi in the this problem for about 17 years. It must boxcar shortages which each year create
Senate than there were west of the Mis- be a great relief to him to get the bill to acute hardships in Nebraska and other
sissippi. So we used to hold hearings the floor and in a position where it is Farm Belt States. I am pleased to be
every year, and on the floor of the Senate almost assured of passage. listed as sponsor or cosponsor. All Ne-
both sides almost gave it up, but the sit- While we are passing out accolades, in braskans are very grateful to Chairman
uation is getting so bad overall that now addition to the junior Senator from Con- MACNUSON of the Committee on Com
the southern railroads are feeling the necticut, who has spearheaded drives in merce for his consideration of this prob-
terrible pinch on freight cars. this field, in which I have participated, I lem.
It may be that this action will stimu- also wish to say a word in behalf of the It is important that Congress enact
late everyone to do a little more in this Senator from New Hampshire [Mr. legislation which would help assure the
d t of an ads-
r
i
i
field.
Mr. HRUSKA. The situation has been
described correctly. For years, in the
Middle West, we have felt that the rail-
roads there have furnished more than
their share, certainly a very generous
share, of the cars, considering the mile-
age and the freight that they generate.
However, there has always been the cry
that the other railroads did not do their
share.
When the Senator from Kansas held
the hearings in my home city of Omaha,
that same song was sung once again.
The conclusion was expressed that some-
thing must be done in a fundamental
way. We are sure that this bill will
represent some real progress.
Mr. ALLOTT. Mr. President, I com-
pliment the chairman of the committee
on bringing the bill to the floor. The
about a meeting of minds in working out
language which helped to avoid some of
the internecine fighting that we had be-
fore between the railroads in connection
with this problem. I know at firsthand
that the railroad car shortage is growing
worse, instead of better.
The bill is a step in the right direc-
tion, even though it may not cure the
whole problem overnight. I congratu-
late the chairman and the Senator from
Nebraska and the Junior Senator from
Kansas and everyone else who has
worked on this program of trying to get
something done. I am not sure that we
have found the whole solution to the
problem. I might say to the distin-
guished chairman that it may be that as
time goes on, if we find it does not farm
a right method by which the ICC can
problem has recurred every year that I work out the problem of getting more
can recall. Each year we have been boxcars, we shall have to enact some kind
faced with a boxcar shortage. The facts of incentive program. However, that is
which the chairman and the Senator for the future. At least, this is a step in
from Nebraska have recited have been the right direction. I congratulate
recited over and over again. There has everyone.
always been the feeling, because there ay.. MAGNUSON. Mr. President,
has not been a sufficient daily rate when the Senator from Colorado said
charged, that certain railroads were fur- that this problem has been with us 17
coshing more than their share of the years, I was reminded that it has indeed
boxcars. Our railroads in the West have been with us for along time. When the
always felt that they were furnishing distinguished Senator was holding his
more than their share of boxcars. hearings, the former chairman of the
Mr. MAGNUSON. They were. Committee on Commerce, Ed Johnson,
Mr. ALLOTT. The figures seem to from the State of Colorado, former Gov-
support the statement that they were. ernor of the State, said, when the hearing
Now we get to the point where the ICC was scheduled, that this was one hearing
will be able to do something about the he wanted to attend. He did.
problem. Through the past few years Mr. DOMINICK. I remember that
the distinguished chairman [Mr. Mac- during one of the hearings the chairman
NUsoN] and some of us in the Midwest himself said that the first record we had
have had numerous conferences with the of com
at least writ-
laints in the Senate
,
p
ICC. They have moved in some people ten records, concerning the shortage of
on an emergency basis, and I believe boxcars, was in 1906.
could do under the law and under the ~"~` "'1?"'" "?"?`
circumstances to alleviate the situation. Mr. DOMINICK. The problem has
Now we have put in the Commission's been with us for a long time.
hands the power to do something about Mr. MILLER. Mr. President, I wish to
it. add my commendation to the chairman
I would be remiss In paying my respects for taking action on the bill. I would
to the chairman and to the distinguished have preferred to have the bill left as it
Senator from Nebraska [Mr. Hausxai, was. I recognize the problems the chair-
who has done so much work on this situa- man had with the bill. Perhaps there is
tion in the last few years, if I did not also a need at this time to have a modifies-
say to the distinguished Senator from tion of it. I trust that if the results are
Kansas [Mr. PEARSON] that we in Colo- not what we hope they will be, the chair-
rado were deeply appreciative for having man of the committee will keep an open
been given the opportunity to have a mind on the subject for possible future
n us
y
n
Midwestern gra
quate supply of cars to ship their product
when it is ready for shipment, and which
would help avoid losses occasioned by
shortages of this equipment.
I will not dwell upon the details of the
very simple proposal which would pro-
vide an incentive for railroad manage-
ment to build freight cars essential to
the Nation's needs. It would grant au-
thority to the Interstate Commerce Com-
mission to fix rental rates which would
provide just and reasonable compensa-
tion to freight car owners and it would
encourage the acquisition and mainte-
nance of a car supply sufficient to meet
the needs of both commerce and the na-
tional defense.
I wholeheartedly endorse this proposal,
and I urge its passage to offer relief to
an important segment of our economy.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
question is on agreeing to the committee
amendment.
The bill is open to further amendment.
If there be no further amendment to be
proposed, the question is on the engross-
ment and third reading of the bill.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
for a third reading, was read the third
time, and passed.
MESSAGE FROM THE HOUSE
A message from the House of Repre-
sentatives, by Mr. Bartlett, one of its
reading clerks, announced that the
House had agreed to the report of the
committee of conference on the amend-
ments of the House to the joint resolu-
tion (S.J. Res. 1) proposing an amend-
ment to the United States Constitution
relating to succession to the Presidency
and Vice-Presidency and to cases where
the President is unable to discharge the
PRESIDENTIAL INABILITY ND
VACANCIES IN THE OFFICE OF
VICE PRESIDENT-CONFERENCE
REPORT
Mr. BAYH. Mr. President, I submit
a report of the committee of conference
on the disagreeing votes of the two
Houses on the amendment of the House
to the joint resolution (S.J. Res. 1) pro-
posing an amendment to the Constitu
 proWOor Release 2003110122 .: M H~IA902ATE
June 30, 1965
ties of the United States relating to sue- signed to do three specific things. I We added specific language enabling
cession to the Presidency and Vice-Presi- should like hastily to review the three the President to resume his powers and
der 'y and to cases where the President , purposes: duties immediately, with no waiting
is unable to
discharge the powers and First, the proposed amendment would period if he had
i
e
p hi
g
v
n u
s powers
, duties of his office. I ask unanimous make forever clear that when the office and duties by voluntary declaration.
consent for the present consideration of of President becomes vacant, the Vice That had been the intention of the
the report. President shall become President, not Senate all along, as I recall the colloquy
The PRESIDING OFFICER Th
e re-merely Acting President We would which tkl th
.. -.oo pace one floor of the
port win be read for the information of .clearly state in the Constitution what Senate; and we had no objection to mak-
en
m
,. _,, ,, a
eans w Rua m fns powers and uuties Dy dclti
earaon
object on to the present consideration of that office so that we would at all times of the Vice President and a majority of
the report? have a Vice President of the United the Cabinet, or such other body as Con
There being no objection, the Senate States.
ress b
l
g
y
aw may provide could resume
, ,Proceeded to considef the report.. Third, the proposed amendment would the powers and duties of the office of
"Mr. $AYH. Mr. President, we have provide a means by which the Vice Presi- President upon his declaration that no
b
eoreusfor final passage Senate Joint dent m thd di
?ay assumee powers anutes inability existed, unless within 7 days
$esplution 1, whicll is a proposal to of the Chief Executive when the Presi- the Vice President and a majority of the
a*ehd the Conatitut/on to assure Presi- dent is unable to do so himself. Cabinet or the other body issued a dec-
dential`succession and authority in our The conference report, which has now laration challenging the President's in-
Government. been approved by the House of Repro- rention The (l
..,...
_ ------ :-
ou
ersi-
d
proposal which
S
_____ ?__?
,e,e
enate np- conference compromised on 4 dd
ays, an ticu'harly the President of the United proved earlier this year by a vote of 72 I urge the Senate to accept that as a
States,, the leadership of this body, the to 0. I should like to describe those reasonable compromise between the
leadership of the House of Representa- changes and then urge approval of the time limits imposed by the two bodies.
tines,. the executives of the American Bar .conference report by this body. Furthermore, we have clarified lan-
44oci4tion, and my colleagues on the Ju- In the Senate version of the measure guage, at the request of the Senate con-
dietary Committee, with particular em- we prescribed that all declarations eon- forces, to make crystal clear that the
jzlrasls upon those who labored on the cermng the inability of the President or Vice President must be a party to any
Sul corm}! ttee on Constitutional Amend- of his ability to perform the powers and action declaring the President unable
menus. duties of that. office, particularly a dec- to perform his powers and duties.
The measure was introduced by myself laration concerning his readiness to re- I remember well the words of Presi-
ohbehalf of myself and many other ben- some the powers and duties of his office dent Eisenhower before the American
,stars. 7t has been, slightly modified made by the President of the United Bar Association conference, when he
from the form in which it was intro- States himself, be transmitted to the said that it is a constitutional obligation
duced Ili December 1963. Since then it Speaker of the House and to the Presi- of the Vice President to help make these
,has been the subject of two sets of hear- dent of the Senate. decisions. We tin the Senate felt that to
it g before the Senate Subcommittee on The conference committee report pro- be the case, and thus changed the lan-
Constitutional Amepdments. It has poses that those declarations go to the guage a bit to make it specifically clear.
been. studied by the full Committees on Speaker and to the President pro tem- That, I am sure, had been the inten-
the Judiciary of both the House and the pore of the Senate. The reason for the tion of both the Senate and the House,
Senate, It was twice passed in the Sen- change is, of course, that the Vice Presi- but we felt that the language was not
ate by unanimous yeas and nay votes, and dent, who is also the President of the specific enough, so we clarified it on that
It was overwhelmingly approved by the Senate, would be participating in mak- point.
'Other body. , 1ng a declaration of presidential inability, The Senate conferees accepted a
Earlier this year the proposed amend- and therefore would be unable to trans- House amendment requiring the Con-
metit received the fjill support of the mit his own declaration to himself. In gress to convene within 48 hours if the
y
President of the United States. Earlier addition, I believe , that we would be on were not then in session, and if the Vice
It had been endorsed, as was brought out better legal ground not to send the dec- President and a majority of the Cabinet
n some detail in the, debate which en- laration to a party in interest. The or the other body were to challenge the
sued in this body, by such distinguished Vice President, who would be shortly as- President's declaration that he, the
fait! ovcrnmental groups, as the Ameri- suming or seeking to assume the powers Chief Executive, were not disabled or,
can Sar Association. . and duties of the office, would indeed be once again, able to perform the powers
At long last the Senate and House a party in interest. and duties of his office.
conferees have completed their studies In the Senate version of the bill we We feel that the requirement would
of the proposed amendment. A short did not specify that if the President were encourage speedy disposition of the
while ago the conference report was ap- to surrender his powers and duties volun- question by the Congress, and I urge its
proved by the House of Representatives. tarily-and I emphasize the word "vol- acceptance by the Senate.
An that remains is,fgr this body to ap- untarily"-he could resume them im- Finally, the Senate version imposed
prove the conference report, and then mediately upon declaring that his in- longtime limitations upon the Congress
the measure will be sent to the States for ability no longer existed. We believe to settle a dispute as to whether the
ratification. Ghat our language clearly implied this. President or the Vice President could
If the Senate acts affirmatively, it will certainly the intention was made clear perform the powers and duties of the
be the 11th time in the past 90 years that n the debate on the question on the office of President. Senators know the
Congress has submitted a proposed floor of the Senate and in the record of
question would com t th C
eoeongress
attiehdment to the Constitutionto the our committee hearings, but the At- only if the Vice President, who would
WVeral States. Of the last 10 that have Forney General of the United States re- then be acting as President, were to
been submitted, 9 have been ratified. luested that we be more specific on this challenge, in conjunction with a major-
- .,. -, R =uef1u fa ue- .=ell co t e o we w re unanimous in agreeing that 10
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 Aftl l F elease 2003/1& KSIhtMMo b5 6-8 14831
days was too short a period in which to Mr. HOLLAND. I compliment the this subject. So we had to fill the
decide on that grave a question. Senator from Indiana warmly on the vacuum by agreeing upon the Joint res-
The confereess finally agreed to a 21- fine service he has rendered to the Sen- olution which is before us as the resolute
day time limitation after which, if the ate and the Nation. I hope he will have action of this body and the other body
Vice President had failed to win the early success in obtaining action by the and of the conference committee.
support of two-thirds of both the Houses 43 State legislatures whose ratification I believe the solution is sound. It
of Congress, the President would auto- of the amendment is necessary before it would restrict the role of Congress con-
matically return to the powers and du- becomes a part of the Constitution. I siderably. Under the amendment Con-
ties of his office. I urge the Senate to believe he will receive that kind of ae- gress would act only as an appellate body
accept that change. tion, because the Nation realizes that in in the event there were a difference of
I should like to specify one thing these perilous times this difficult ques- opinion between the President, on the
further about this particular point since tion, which has been pending for so long, one hand, as to his ability to return to
I feel it is the main point of contention should have this method of solution his office, and the judgment of the Vice
between the House and the Senate, and available at all times, and as speedily as president and a majority of the Cabinet,
one upon which I was happy to see we possible. or some other body that might be con-
could find some agreement. I wish I could help the Senator from stituted by law, which might have an
First, including a time limitation in Indiana in relation to his contacts with opinion to the contrary.
the Constitution of the United States Governors and State legislatures. But Congress by itself would have no
would impose upon those who come after judging by the fine ability that he has power to initiate a challenge of the
us In this great body a limitation on their shown in consulting others up to this president's ability or inability in this
discussion and deliberation when sur- time, he certainly needs no suggestions regard.
rounded by contingencies which we can- from me or from anyone else. I wish to comment upon the role of
not foresee. The Senate conferees felt May I ask the distinguished Senator a the junior Senator from Indiana in the
that a 10-day time limitation was too question? preparation of the joint resolution, not
short a period. Mr. BAYH. Yes. only with respect to sponsoring it, but
Our feeling in the Senate, as repre- Mr. HOLLAND. Is it the Senator's in- also in so consistently pursuing the
sented by the views of the conferees, was tention to ask for a quorum call and background and foundational material.
that we should go slowly in imposing a then to ask for the yeas and nays? That material was gathered in con-
maximum time limitation if we could Mr. BAYH. That is not my intention. fcrences with, for example, represents-
not foresee the contingencies that might Inasmuch as the Senate has voted on tires of the House of Delegates of the
confront those who were forced to make much the same proposal lay a substantial American Bar Association and with the
their determination as to who. would be margin on two occasions; inasmuch as house of delegates itself. That effort
the President of the United States. I be- the House, when it concurred in the con- was followed by many discussions with
lieve 21 days is a reasonable time. I ference report, did not take a yea-and- professors and scholars learned in the
emphasize that it is our feeling that this nay vote; and inasmuch as some Sena- law, in addition to the committee hear-
is not necessarily an absolute period. tors are not present at this time, I be- ings themselves.
The 21 days need not always be used. lieve it is really unnecessary to have a An effort was made to follow the es-
In my estimation, most decisions would yea-and-nay vote. tablished procedures of Congress in both
be made in a shorter time. But if the Mr. HOLLAND. I shall defer, of bodies for the implementation of the
Nation were involved in a war or other course, to the views of the distinguished amendment. That was not found to be
International crisis, and the President Senator, who is the principal author and possible with respect to the time limita-
had suffered an Illness whose diagnosis cosponsor of the measure, and to the tion in section 3 which provides for the
might be difficult, a longer time might be views of the majority leader and the act- event of the issue of disability being
needed, and the maximum of 21 days ing minority leader, who are in the joined between the President, on the one
that was agreed upon might be required. Chamber. ' hand, and the Vice President and a ma-
It should be made clear that if during I believe it would be impressive-and jority of the Cabinet, on the other.
the 21-day limit one House of Congress, this is the only comment I shall have to .. In deciding upon a period of 21 days,
either the Senate or the House of I%ep make-when action Is taken by the I believe we have provided a reasonable
resentatives, voted on the issue as to States if more than one or two Senators time in which the Issue can be canvassed
whether the President was unable to per- had affirmatively espoused a particular and acted upon intelligently,
form his powers and duties, but failed to version of an amendment which had -A new duty has been placed upon Con-
obtain the necessary two-thirds major- reached State legislatures. But I shall gress. It is a duty that lies upon men
ity to sustain the position of the Vice gladly defer to the judgment of the Ben- and women of good purpose in respond-
President and the Cabi};et, or whatever ator from Indiana and the majority ing to the needs of their Nation in a time
other body Congress in its wisdom might leader and acting minority leader. of crisis. It is my hope that the amend-
prescribe at some future date, the issue Mr. HRUSI{A. Mr. President, I join ment will be consistently unneeded.
would be decided in favor af the Presi- the Senator from Indiana in urging the Nevertheless, such an agreement, as pro-
dent. In other words, If one House adoption of the conference report., vided in this fashion, is wise, indeed.
voted but failed to get the necessary two- The proposed constitutional amend- So I join the Senator from Indiana in
thirds majority, the other House would ment is a correction of a long-exposed urging the Senate to adopt the confer-
be precluded from using the 21 days and defect In the organization of our National ence report and to do whatever any of
the President would immediately re- Government. The amendment provides us can do toward urging the legislatures
assume the powers and duties of his for a solution of the disastrous but in- of the several states to ratify the amend-
office, evitable situation that would confront ment to our organic law, so that it may
I feel that further remarks are un- the Nation in the event of a fallen leader be duly promulgated and given force and
necessary: I thank all who have made of the Nation, either because of violence, effect.
it possible for us to bring the amend- illness, or disability. It has been a Mr. BAYH. I thank the Senator
ment to this stage, especially the dis- troublesome problem, one which has pro- from Nebraska for his thoughtful words,
tinguished Senator from, Nebraska [Mr. vided many uneasy moments to the peo- but more particularly for the dedicated
HausKni. ple of, the Nation from time to time dur- effort, the long, tiresome hours of hear-
I observe in ttilrre Chamber the father ing our history. ings and conference work, and the con-
of the last coup jti,tionai endment to In the course of examining the prob- stant writing and rewriting that were
be adopted, the distinguished Senator lem, we have found that there is an in- necessary to reach the end of the tortu-
from Florida [Mr. Hoaa414a], whose ad- flnity of contingencies which could be ous journey we have been making.
vice I shall be seeking with respect to the raised in any number of hypothetical Mr. KENNEDY of New York. Mr.
method of approaching State legisla- situations. If we ever tried to provide President, I congratulate the junior Sen-
tures. for all of them or for any substantial ator from Indiana [Mr. BAVrr] on. the
Mr. HOLLAND. Mr. President, will number of them, it would require an outstanding job he has done in shep-
the Senator yield? infinite number of days or months, or herding Senate Joint Resolution 1 from
Mr. BAYH. Iyleld. perhaps years, to continue the debate on the realm of abstract proposal to its re
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 Ap 6fld For Release' 2003/1 O4 Sib94 A E June 30, 1965
alization today. Along the way he con wh should decide when the President this is a perfect amendment. I believe
suited with a great number of people is cisabled. that its perfection is based upon the
about this problem, and he heard a con- I or the point of the Wilson incident ability of the men I ving at the time when
siderable variety of ideas on how it is that, even though no procedure there the measure must be used to cope suc-
should be solved. It is to his credit that existed for declaring a President to be cessfully with the problems and contin-
hewas able, with patience and diplo- disibled and even though there was no gencies with which they are confronted.
macy, to resolve these differences. evi fence of any overt attempt to usurp Par that reason, we believed that the
I call to the Senate's attention a most the ,powers of the President, the ailing Cabinet, as we see it now, is the best
important aspect of Senate Joint Rise- President nevertheless decided to dis- body to serve as a check. However, we
lution 1 which has not received as much pose of any Cabinet member who seemed might be wrong. Why close the door?
notice as it should have. That is the to present a threat. More serious con- Why not- leave us a degree of leeway so
provision, in section 4, which gives Con- flict might follow, in a comparable sit- that when Congress is confronted with
gress authority to provide by law for it oat ion, now that a procedurefor deter- different circumstances than we pres-
body other than the Cabinet to determine miring disability is established. Indeed, ently foresee, it could designate a differ-
the inability of the President to exer- a r resident might fire his entire Cabinet. ent body and give it authority to act.
case the powers and duties of his office 7Rds Is a matter concerning which I Mr. KENNEDY of New York. Mr.
when be is unwilling to make the dec.- haiie had numerous conversations with President, as I said to the Senator from
laration of inability himself. the Senator from Indiana, Indiana, I have strong reservations about
--This provision was wisely added by It is true that the committee reports the use of the Cabinet in this matter.
the framers of Senate Joint Resolution - and other legislative history make it quite I believe that the Senator from Indiana
1 because of the doubts which some peo cle it that, for purposes of Senate Joint has considered my suggestions and
pie voiced as to the workability of using Ile [olutfon 1, the Deputies or Under See- every other suggestion and recommenda-
the Cabinet as the body to determine the - retaries In the various departments tion which he has received.
President's inability. Now that we are world, when there clearly are vacancies I praise the Senator for coming for-
finally enacting Senate Joint Resolution in the Cabinet, become acting heads of ward with this legislation, for which he
2, we must not cease thinking about this the. departments until new principal offi- is more aespohslble than anyone else. I
aspect of the inability problem. We cers were confirmed, or, if Congress were should like to ask a series of questions of
must keep in mind that we have given nol; in session, until recess appointments the Senator from Indiana on another as-
Congress the power to provide a different were made. I believe this legislative his- pect of the proposed constitutional
body to determine Presidential inability, Cory is extremely important, but if the amendment. I think this would help
and we should engage in a continuing President did become involved in this in clarificating another important issue.
study of whether there' is some better kind of dispute with his Cabinet the situ- I go black to the colloquy which took
'stay to handle this very difficult matter. atlan would nonetheless be most difficult place on the floor of the Senate when
e the need to engage in continuing re- anj disruptive, especially in a period of the matter was considered a month or
examination of whether the Cabinet is criits fox the United States either domes- so ago. Is it not true that the inability
the best available body to determine ticylly or with other countries around the to which we are referring in the proposed
P.restde}ttfal Inability is demonstrated by \yo[ld. amendment is total inability to exercise
cet'tain historical evidence which I call What could ensue is a conflict as to the powers and ditties of the office?
to the Senate's attention today. who is actually acting as President at Mr. BAYH. The inability that we deal
1 refer to the facts surrounding the a r articular time. with here is described several times in
'resignation of Robert Lansing as Pies- t'he question that might arise is the amendment itself as the inability of
IdPaat Wilson's Secretary of State. These whether the President had, in fact, fired the President to perform the powers and
capacities. Secretary Lansing was his thi spectacle of having two Presidents thus, by the definition of some people,
uneje, and Mr. Dulles has made avail- both claiming the right to exercise the might be physically able, but at the same
abje.certain relevant correspondence and powers and duties of the Presidency, and time he might not possess the mental
hecitoi?andums, which are now on deposit pa taps two sets of Cabinet officers both capacity to make a decision and perform
at Princeton Universityand arenot yet claiming the right to act. the powers and ditties of his office. We
available to the public. , 'thus there are dangers in the amend- are talking about inability to perform the
.together with Secretary Lansing's cor- mint, with all due respect to the Senator constitutional dudes of the office of
respondence with President Wilson at freem Indiana. Nevertheless, I believe President.
the time of the resignation-which Is a we,should go forward, since the dangers Mr. KENNEDY of New York. And
matter oY public record-these deco- ininlved In not enacting Senate Joint that has to be total disability to per-
ments are interesting and revealing. Resolution 1 are greater still and we do form the powers and duties of office.
President Wilson_ fell ill during the not know whether a procedure better Mr. BAYH. The Senator is correct.
latter months of 1919. Mr. Lansing, thin Cabinet determination can be We are not getting into a position,
after consultation with other members fomid. Certainly if one were now pos- through the pending measure, In which,
of the Cabinet, decided that it was neces- sit le I believe the Senator from Indiana when a President makes an unpopular
sary for the Cabinet to'. meet and carry would have found it. - - decision, he would immediately be ren-
on the affairs of Government as best it The Senator has wisely left open the dered unable to perform the duties of his
could, About 25 meetings had taken way to further improvement. I urge office.
place, over a period of some 4 months, that the Congress follow his lead, and Mr. KENNEDY of New York. Is It
When Wilson wrote to Lansing, charged move directly to continued examination limited to mental inability to make or
him with usurpation of Presidential of alternate procedures to be enacted communicate his decision regarding his
powers because of the Cabinet meetings, by'the Congress, for determining when capacity and mental inability to perform
and asked for his resignation. After a ]?resident is unable to dicharge the du- the powers and duties prescribed by law?
Mr. BAYH. I do not believe that we
an exchange of eaters, Lansing did re- ties r. his office.
lofr BAYIi. Mr. President, first of all, should limit it to mental disability. It Is
There were other reasons for friction I inn Indebted to the Senator from New conceivable that the President might fall
between Lansing and Wilson. They were York, and so is the Senate, not only for into the hands of the enemy, for example.
at odds over the negotiation of the hi i present statement, but also for the Mr. KENNEDY of New York. It in-
Treaty of Versailles and' subsequent con- dtieusslon which he stimulated on the volves physical or mental inability to
gressional consideration of the treaty. flier when we were considering the make or communicate his decision re-
114vertheless, Wilson's inference that the measure for passage earlier this year. garding his capacity and physical or
Presidential Cabinet had usurped power The Senator points out very correctly mental. inability to exercise the powers
demonstrates thewisdom of the framers that there is a degree of flexibility in and duties of his office.
' Mr BAYH The Senator is correct.
t
his measure.
.this amendment in leaving open to
.. other. aimsideration tt hO ,_WStioA? of_. T_a r? Ykgj,,{sQ.bgld A&L "u Kest thlt That is very important. I would refer
 Appr~ M My Fiegl99se 200311
0/226 M d44 $(TD'I-7OM.ATE
the Seto back to. the dealinition which reasons. And when we think of the great House to the joint resolution (S.J. Res.
I read Into the RECORD at the time the crisis in 1819 with President Wilson and 1) proposing an amendment to the Con-
Senate passed this measure earlier this Mr. Lansing, it is apparent that under stitution of the United States relating to
year. the procedure set out in section 4 of Sen- succession to the Presidency and Vice-
Mr
KENNEDY
I
o
w
,
o
Ne
Y
rk. It was ate Joint Resolution 1 there could ac-
that definition which I was seeking to tually be a question as to who was acting
reemphasize. May I ask one other ques- as President of the United states at a
tion? Is it not true that the inability particular time. That is why this sub-
referred to must be expected to be of ject should receive continuing study by
long duration, or at least one whose this body to determine whether an al-
duration is uncertain and might persist? ternative to the Cabinet's acting could
Mr. BAYH. Here again I think one be evolved.
of the advantages ok this particular What if the President of the United
amendment is the leeway it gives us. We States made a decision which was very
are not talking about the kind of in- unpopular with members of his Cabinet?
ability in which the President went to I think back to the time of Abraham
the dentist and was under anesthesia. Lincoln in 1863. I think back to the
It is not that type of inability we are time of President Andrew Johnson and
talking about, but the Cabinet, as well recall how unpopular he was with all the
as the Vice President and Congress, are members of his Cabinet. They could
going to have to judge the severity of the have taken action, under the slightest
disability and the problems that face our pretext, to have him removed. Even
country. with all the protections provided, I say
Perhaps the Senator from New York the situation is dangerous. We would
would like to rephrase the question. be deluding ourselves in thinking that
Mr. KENNEDY of New York. Is it not by adopting the amendment the danger
true that what we are talking about here, to our people and the people around the
as far as inability is concerned, is not a world would disappear, because a danger
brief or temporary inability? would still exist. The subject deserves
Mr. BAYH. We are talking about one our continuing effort and attention.
that would seriously impair the Presi- Mr. BAYH. I agree. There is leeway
dent's ability to perform the powers and with respect to Congress and the com-
duties of his office. mittees and the Cabinet.
Mr. KENNEDY of New York, Could a In discussing dangers to the people,
President have such inability for a short think of the danger after President Gar-
period of time? field had been felled by a bullet and we
Mr. BAYH. A President who was un- had no President for 80 days. The dan-
conscious for 30, Minutes when, missiles ger of such a situation in this day and
were flying toward this country might age is considerably more than the dan-
only be disabled temporarily, but it would ger that could arise if the provisions of
be of severe consequence when viewed in this amendment were invoked.
the light of the problems facing the Mr. KENNEDY of New York. That
country, is why I intend to support this amend-
So at that time, even for that short ment.
duration, someone would have to make a Mr. BAYH. I appreciate the Senator's
decision. But a disability which has per- comments.
i
f
r
l
sted
o
only a short time would ordi-
narily be excluded. If a President were
unable to make an Executive decision
which might have severe consequences
for the country, I think we would be bet-
ter off under the conditions of the
amendment.
. Mr. KENNEDY of New York. The
Senator realizes the complications for
the people of this country and the world
under those circumstances.
Mr. BAYH. I do, 'indeed, I also rec-
ognize our difficulty If we had no amend-
ment at all. The Senator from New
York realizes the consequences in that
Case: The Senator Is aware of the time
? limitations which give the President a
certain amount of leeway now. If he re-
cbvers from the illness within the time
limitations, he would have protection un-
der the amendment.
Presidency and to cases where the Presi-
dent is unable to discharge the powers
and duties of his office.
Mr. BAYH and Mr. MCCARTHY ad-
dressed the Chair.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
Senator from Minnesota.
Mr. MOCARTHY. If it were not for
the fact that the amendment provides
that the Congress of the United States
has a right to designate some body other
than the cabinet to pass upon the ques-
tion of Presidential disability, I could
not support the amendment. The Sen-
ator from New York has pointed out the
necessity, and I hope that the appro-
priate committees of the Congress and
the Congress will give consideration to
some other body's passing upon the ques-
tion of Presidential disability. If that
provision were not in the amendment, I
could not support the proposed amend-
ment, and I would urge its rejection.
History shows that it is better to have
one sane king rather than two who are
not, each one of them claiming to be the
right king. There is the possibility of
a situation 'n which one man, having
been elected President, claims he was
capable of exercising the duties of his
office, and the other person, the Vice
President, engages in a letter-writing
contest as to which is the appropriate
man. There could be a body other than
the Cabinet which should have the abil-
ity to make a decision which would have
the effect of giving the American public
confidence in the person they had ap-
proved and a disposition not to accept
the authority of someone who would be
disapproved.
It is my judgment that it would have
been better to follow the recommenda-
tion
a
l
CONTINUATION OF AUTHORITY CMrs DIRKSENI and not
try to be so
spec
FOR REGULATION OF EXPORTS cific as provided in the present amend-
Mr. MANSFIELD. Mr. President, will ment.
the Senator yield without losing the Mr. KENNEDY of New York. Mr.
floor? President, will the Senator Yield?
Mr. BAYH. I yield. Mr. MCCARTHY. I yield.
Mr. MANSFIELD. I ask unanimous Mr. KENNEDY of New York. Let us
consent, for the purpose of providing go back to another situation, which I
regular procedure, that the considera- am sure the Senator from Indiana rec-
tion of Calendar No. 352, H.R. 7105, foI- ognizes. A Cabinet decides that a Pres-
low consideration of the present confer- ident was disabled. The President fires
ence report, the Cabinet. The members of the Cab-
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The bill inet say they did not receive notice that
will be stated by title. they were fired until after they had de-
The LEGISLATIVE CLEEx. A bill (H.R. Glared the President disabled. The Pres-
7105) to provide for continuation of au- ident says he fired them first. If the
thority for regulation of exports, and for Congress is in recess, the President ap-
other purposes. Points another cabinet, or else he says
the Deputie
d U
d
s an
n
er Secretaries are
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Is there
Mr. KENNEDY of New York. As I said now the Cabinet. There would be two
at the beginning, I_believe there should objection to the request? Without ob- Presidents and two Cabinets. There
be A continuing study of the problem. section, it is so ordered. would be a conflict as to which ones
Based on my own personal Out were the members of the Cabinet and
and on what was. brought out in the PRESIDENTIAL INABILITY AND VA- as to whether the members of the first
hearings, I believe that members. of the Cabinet had made the decision before
Cabinet could be subjected to political CANCIES IN THE OFFICE OF THE or after they were fired by the President.
strains of one kind or another under cer- VICE PRESIDENT It is recognized by the proposed leg-
talqq clrcumStai pes_ of., danger which The Senate resumed the consideration islation that this is a problem. I do not
Milt arise for thq United States. They of the report of the committee of con- believe the danger disappears by the
might be Impelled to challenge the Presi- ference on the disagreeing votes of the adoption of the amendment. I do not
dent's ability and capacity for the wrong two Houses on the amendment of, the think, when we adopt the measure, that
No. 118- 2
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 11gppoved For Release 2003/L1June 30, 1965
the problems of our Executive are gone Mr. I,AYH. First, let me go into a Mr. MCCAR.THY. I am glad to yield
and that we do not have to worry about brief explanation of why this provision to the Senator from Tennessee.
it any more. We have to continue to was included. This was the result of the Mr. GORE. This is done. specifically
worry about it. Although the legislation consensis meeting with scholars and ex- for the purpose of giving Congress a cer-
is better than the situation at the pres- Atornezs General whom I shall not tarn amount of leeway which the Sen-
ent time, there will be situations which bother 10 enumerate, trying for the first ator from Minnesota feels it should have?
might cause difficulty. time in congressional history to weld to- Mr. BAYTI. I should be glad to re-
Mr. MCCARTHY. Generally speak- gether he 42 different proposals which spond to that, Any time Congress in its
ing, it is better, but there could be worse previously came before Congress. This wisdom thought it necessary, if further
situations arising under the amendment has always been historically a problem, discussion and deliberation on this issue
than there would bee the in to reach ag and to ree- by to beeve another
Indeterminate and h ague w ayuln which onci ei the d fferencesein order to obtain bodyoshouldlbe xe tab] l hed itacould es-
we could have moved. a two-thirds majority. tablish it.
The amendment has nothing to say It was felt that if there was an arbi- Mr. GORE. Do I corrrectly understand
about whethet the executive officers trary Cabinet that completely refused to the able Senator to say that Congress
who pass on the disability have been go along with the fact that the Presi- could, immediately upon adoption of this
confirmed by the Senate. This is a dent, who was obviously disabled, was constitutional. amendment, provide by
point which might well be included in disabled-the condition referred to by law for such a,- body as herein specified
the amendment. I believe that they the Ser ator from New York-the Presi- and that, then, either a majority of this
have to be executive officers confirmed dent might get wind of it and, although body created by law or a majority of the
by the Senate. We would have to work he might be in extremely bad condition, Cabinet could perform this function?
out the making of temporary appoint- he might manage to have issued a docu- Mr. HAVE No. The Cabinet has the
ments. The Senator from New York ment firing the Cabinet. This would not primary responsiblity. If it is replaced
said that we could have two Cabinets. Preclude Congress, in its wisdom, from by Congress with another body, the
This would something like the old days establishing another panel, perhaps, of Cabinet loses the responsibility, and it
in Avignon, when there were two Popes, the majority and minority leaders of rests solely irk the other body.
which created a great deal of trouble, both Eouses, the Chief Justice of the Mr. GORE. But the amendment does
the same kind of trouble which was Supreme Court. We in our wisdom as not so provide.
created for many, many years in Eng- Members of Congress, would do so be- Mr. BAYH: Yes, it does. It states-
land when two Kings claimed the crown. cause f is wise. This body, in conjunc- Mr. GORE. The word is "or."
It has meant nothing but trouble. tion with the Vice President, could make Mr. BAYH. It says "or." It does not
t do not know whether, under this its determination. say "both." "Or such other body as
amendment, the executive officers would Mr. McCARTHY. In the meantime, Congress may by law prescribe."
have to be confirmed by the Senate. who would control the Army, Navy, and I wish the RECORD to be abundantly
They could be temporary appointees, Air Fo ce? clear that that is the case. I am glad the
which could be passed upon by the Sen- Mr. BAYH. The President of the Senator brought up that point. I be-
ate. United States. lieve that this colloquy on that point is
Mr. GORE. Mr. President, will the Mr. ,ICCARTHY. Whoever he might important and should be added to that
Senator from Minnesota yield? be. already in the RECORD.
The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. HAR- Mr. BAYH. Whoever he might be. The Cabinet, upon enactment of rati-
ars In the chair). Does the Senator Mr. McCARTHY. Which one might fication, has the responsibility, unless
from Minnesota 'yield to the Senator be? Congress chooses another body, at which
from Tennessee? Mr. BAYH. He would be the Presi- time that other body, and that other
Mr. MCCARTHY. I yield. dent until a declaration from the Vice body alone, working in conjunction with
Mr. GORE. The Senator from Min- President and a majority of the Cabinet the Vice President, has the responsibility.
nesota finds some consolation In the fact or the other body had been made and Indeed, Congress may choose a third
that, if I have understood him correctly, received by the Speaker- body.
the amendment provides that Congress Mr. McCARTHY. We do not accept Mr. GORE. Mr. President, will the
could designate another body by law. the determination of this body. We are Senator from Minnesota yield?
I invite his attention to the possibility going to set up another body. Mr. MCCARTHY. I yield.
that this could compound the question, Mr. BAYH. That Is correct. Mr. GORE. I suppose it might be
because the amendment reads: Mr. McCARTHY. Congress would possible to read legislative intent into
Whenever the Vice President and a ma- have io act quickly to set up another this conjunction, but--
jority of either officers of the executive de- body which might act in such a case. Mr. BAYI][. If I may interrupt here-
partments or of such other body as Congress Mr. GORE. Mr. President, will the let me read the exact wording: "and a
may by law provide. Senator from Minnesota yield? majority of, either the principal officers of
I should like to inquire of the Senator Mr. McCARTHY. I yield. the executive departments or-"
Mr. GORE. The answer of the Sen- Either/or "of such other body as Con-
in - If, ion ator from Indiana indicates that he is gress may by law provide."
Mr. . MC McCARTHY. Ask the Senator thinking of the possibility of action by So when there Is an "either/or" solu-
from Indiana. Congress at such time, and after such tion, it nails it down to one or the other.
Mr. GORE, There would be a pus- time its there may be an obstinate, non- Mr. GORE. It seems tome that if it is
albllity of a contest or controversy be- existent, or otherwise inactive Cabinet. "either/or" it places the two on a par-
tween the Cabinet that may or may not As I read the proposed amendment, Mr. BAYH. I do not see how that
have been dismissed, and one which may Congress could, by law, provide now, sub- would be the case at all. The Cabinet
or may not have been confirmed by the seque.zt to approval of this amendment- has the responsibility, What if Congress
Senate. Might there not be the prob- Mr. BAYH. The Senator is correct. by law should Provide for another body
ability of a contest between the two that it feels should have the responsi-
groups which, by the conjunction or, are Mr. GORE. For such a body. Or, bility?
permitted to perform the same function? to adi still further to the uncertainty, Mr. GORE. Then it has such a re-
Mr.MCCARTHY. I believe that there it cot ld await such time as the Senator sponsibility, too.
Is great uncertainty as to whether Con- has foreseen when, because of uncer- Mr. BAYH. Then it has such a re-
tainties, or because of uncertainties sponsibility, too.
gross could act and designate some other which are not now unforeseen. Con- Mr. McCARTHY. Could we not have
group, or define the executive officers gress could act at that time. both?
who were oo'pa be this d by o- Mr. McCARTHY. I am not sure Mr. BAYH. if we have one or the Con- officers But ibis would an enaappproroved scion I
whet]ier this body could not be a body other, we do not have both. If I have
.di-
should like ike to ask it the a nenattor from from i In within the Congress itself. apples or pears, I do not have both.
amendment Under the language
ana whether this Is an open question, or Mr. GORE. Willthe Senator yield Mr.
f the we could keep the
A bVe 'F'@riR@ffiSW20 'ft/22 :e 1A? P67600446R00050017002`6-8
 AreFofJWease 2003/10%2$R0(600157f?l9A
goxi a gg4~,t~ , existence this past year, or
have becepge too old for use. No one
has built any new ones.
We have had this bill before the Sen-
atebefore-as the Senator will remem-
ber-and we used to count noses and
found out that everyone east of the
Mississippi would vote against the bill,
and everyone west of the Mississippi
would vote for it. There were just more
Senators east of the Mississippi in the
Senate than there were west of the Mis-
sissippi. Be we used to bold hearings
every year, and on the floor of the Senate
both sides almost gave it up, but the sit-
nation is getting so bad overall that now
the southern railroads are feeling the
terrible pinch on freight cars.
It may be that this action will stimu-
late everyone to do a little more in this
field,
Mr. HRUSKA. The situation has been
described correctly. For years, in the
Middle West, we have felt that the rail-
roads there have furnishedmore than
their share, certainly a very generous
share, of the cars, considering the mile-
age and the freight that they generate.
However, there has always been the cry
that the other railroads did not do their
share.
When the Senator from Kansas held
the hearings in my home city of Omaha,
that some song was sung once again.
The conclusion was expressed that some-
thing must be done in a fundamental
way. We axe sure that this bill will
represent some real progress.
Mr. ALLOTT. Mr. President, I com-
pliment the chairman of the committee
on bringing the bill to the floor. The
problem has recurred every year that I
can recall. Each year we have been
faced with a boxcar shortage. The facts
which the chairman and the Senator
from Nebraska have recited have been
recited over and over again. There has
always been the feeling, because there
has not been a sufficient daily rate
charged, that certain railroads were fur-
nishing more than their share of the
boxcars. Our railroads in the West have
always felt that they were furnishing
more than their share of boxcars.
Mr. MAGNUSON. They were.
Mr. ALLOTT. The figures seem to
support the statement that they were.
Now we get to the point where the ICC
will be able to do something about the
problem, Through the past few years
the distinguished ehai man [Mr. MAG-
NusOx] and some of us in the Midwest
have had numerous conferences with the
ICC. They have moved, in some people
on an emergency basis, and I believe
they have done everything that they
could do under the law and under the
circumstances to alleviate the situation.
Now we have, put in the Commission's
hands the power to do something about
it.
I would be remiss in paying my respects
to the chairman and to the distinguished
Senator from Nebraska [Mr. HRusxal,
who has done so much work on this situa-
tion ,i thg jest few Years, if I did not also
say to the,, distinguished Senator from
Kansas [Mr. PEaR$ONI that we in Colo-
rado were deeply appreciative for having
been given. the opportunity to. have a
hearing held there, at which our people
could testify. Some of that testimony
bears out the statements that have been
made on the floor. My junior colleague
from Colorado has also been very much
interested in this subject. I believe we
are moving in the right direction.
Mr. DOMINICK. Mr. President, I ap-
preciate the courtesy of the Senator from
Washington. He has been working on
this problem for about 17 years. It must
be a great relief to him to get the bill to
the floor and in a position where it is
almost assured of passage.
While we are passing out accolades, in
addition to the junior Senator from Con-
necticut, who has spearheaded drives in
this field, in which I have participated, I
also wish to say a word in behalf of the
Senator from New Hampshire [Mr.
COTTON], who has been able to bring
about a meeting of minds in working out
language which helped to avoid some of
the internecine fighting that we had be-
fore between the railroads in connection
with this problem. I know at firsthand
that the railroad car shortage is growing
worse, instead of better.
The bill is a step in the right direc-
tion, even though it may not cure the
whole problem overnight. I congratu-
late the chairman and the Senator from
Nebraska and the junior Senator from
Kansas and everyone else who has
worked on this program of trying to get
something done. I am not sure that we
have found the whole solution to the
problem. I might say to the distin-
guished chairman that it may be that as
time goes on, if we find it does not form
a right method by which the ICC can
work out the problem of getting more
boxcars, we shall have to enact some kind
of incentive program. However, that is
for the future. At least, this is a step in
the right direction. I congratulate
everyone.
Mr. MAGNUSON. Mr. President,
when the Senator from Colorado said
that this problem has been with us 17
years, I was reminded that it has indeed
been with us for a long time. When the
distinguished Senator was holding his
hearings, the former chairman of the
Committee on Commerce, Ed Johnson,
from the State of Colorado, former Gov-
ernor of the State, said, when the hearing
was scheduled, that this was one hearing
he wanted to attend. He did.
Mr. DOMINICK. I remember that
during one of the hearings the chairman
himself said that the first record we had
of complaints in the Senate, at least writ-
ten records, concerning the shortage of
boxcars, was in 1906.
Mr. MAGNUSON. Yes.
Mr. DOMINICK. The problem has
been with us for a long time.
Mr. MILLER. Mr. President, I wish to
add my commendation to the chairman
for taking action on the bill. I would
have preferred to have the bill left as it
was. I recognize the problems the chair-
man had with the bill. Perhaps there is
a need at this time to have a modifica-
tion of it. I trust that if the results are
not what we hope they will be, the chair-
14829
changes, which will alleviate the prob-
lem. I am sure he will do so.
Mr. MAGNUSON. We shall have an-
other go at it.
Mr. MILLER. That is a fair approach.
I thank the chairman for taking action
in support of the bill. I support his ac-
tion.
Mr. CURTIS. Mr. President, this
measure is designed to help alleviate.the
boxcar shortages which each year create
acute hardships in Nebraska and other
Farm Belt States. I am pleased to be
listed as sponsor or cosponsor. All Ne-
braskans are very grateful to Chairman
MacwusoN of the Committee on Com-
merce for his consideration of this prob-
lem.
It is important that Congress enact
legislation which would help assure the
midwestern grain industry of an ade-
quate supply of cars to ship their product
when it is ready for shipment, and which
would help avoid losses occasioned by
shortages of this equipment.
I will not dwell upon the details of the
very simple proposal which would pro-
vide an incentive for railroad manage-
ment to build freight cars essential to
the Nation's needs. It would grant au-
thority to the Interstate Commerce Com-
mission to fix rental rates which would
provide just and reasonable compensa-
tion to freight car owners and it would
encourage the acquisition and mainte-
nance of a car supply sufficient to meet
the needs of both commerce and the na-
tional defense.
I wholeheartedly endorse this proposal,
and I urge its passage to offer relief to
an important segment of our economy.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
question is on agreeing to the committee
amendment.
The bill is open to further amendment.
If there be no further amendment to be
proposed, the question is on the engross-
ment and third reading of the bill.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
for a third reading, was rear} the third
MESSAGE FROM THJC HOUSE
A message from the House of Repre-
sentatives, by Mr. Bartlett, one of its
reading clerks, announced that the
House had agreed to the report of the
committee of conference on the amend-
ments of the House to the joint resolu-
tion (S.J. Res. 1) proposing an amend-
ment to the United States Constitution
relating to succession to the Presidency
and Vice-Presidency and to cases where
the President is unable to discharge the
powers and duties of his office.
PRESIDENTIAL INABILITY AND '
VACANCIES IN THE OFFICE OF
VICE PRESIDENT-CONFERENCE
REPORT
Mr. BAYH. Mr. President, I submit
a report of the committee of conference
on the disagreeing votes of the two
Houses on the amendment of the House
man of the committee will keep an open to the joint resolution (S.J. Res. 1) pro-
mind on -the subject f or possible future, posing an amendment to the Cpnstitu-.
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14830 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD -SENATE
tion of the United States relating to sue-
cession to the Presidency and Vice-Presi-
dency and to cases where the President
is unable to discharge the powers and
duties of his office. I ask unanimous
consent for the present consideration of
the report.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The re-
port will be read for the information of
the Senate.
The legislative clerk read the report.
(For conference report, see House pro-
ceedings of June 29, 1965, p. 14587, CoN-
GRESSIONAL RECORD.)
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Is there
objection to the present consideration of
the report?
There being no objection, the Senate
proceeded to consider the report.
Mr. fAYH. Mr. President, we have
before us for final passage Senate Joint
Absolution 1; which is a proposal to
amend the Constitution to assure Presi-
dential succession and- authority In our
Government.
The progress of the bill has been the
result of the labors of many persons, par-
ticularly the President of the United
States, the leadership of this body, the
leadership of the House of Representa-
tives, the executives of the American Bar
Association, and my colleagues on the Ju-
diciaryCommittee, with particular em-
phasis upon those who labored on the
Subcommittee on Constitutional Amend-
ments.
The measure was introduced by myself
on behalf of myself and many other Sen-
ators. It has been slightly modified
from the form in which It was intro-
duced in December 1963, Since then it
has been the subject of two sets of hear-
ing before the Senate Subcommittee on
Constitutional Amendments. It has
been studied by the full Committees on
the Judiciary of both the House and the
Senate. It was twice passed in the Sen-
ate by unanimous yea and nay votes, and
it was overwhelmingly approved by the
other body.
tarlier this year the proposed amend-
ment received the full support of the
President of the United States. Earlier
it had been endorsed, as was brought out
in'siorttd- detail In the debate which en-
aned in this body, by such distinguished
riofigovernmental groups as the Ameri-
CanEar Association.
At long`lastthe Senate and House
conferees have completed their studies
of the proposed amendment. A short
while ago the conference report was ap-
proved by the House of Representatives.
All that remains is`for this body to ap-
ptc e the conference report, and then
the measure will be sent to the States for
ratification. '
If the Senate acts affirmatively, it will
be the 11th time in the past 90 years that
Congress hassubmitted a proposed
sli t.7 dfherit to ' the' Constitution to the
a@Vefai States: Of the last 10 that have
been submitted, 9 have been ratified.
We have every reason to believe that
thg,States wlltlook with favor upon the
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signed to do three specific things. I
should like hastily to review the three
purpose:
First, the proposed amendment would
make forever clear that when the office
of Pre iident becomes vacant, the Vice
President shall become President, not
merely Acting President. We would
clearly state in the Constitution what
has become precedent through the ac-
tions of Vice President Tyler following
the deseth of the then President Harrison.
Second, If the office of Vice President
should become vacant, the proposed
amendment would provide a means to fill
that office so that we would at all times
have i Vice President of the United
States.
Third, the proposed amendment would
provide a means by which the Vice Presi-
dent rosy assume the powers and duties
of the Chief Executive when the Presi-
dent Is unable to do so himself.,
The conference report, which has now
been approved by the House of Repre-
sentatives, contains certain changes
from the proposal which the Senate ap-
provei earlier this year by a vote of 72
to 0, I should like to describe those
chants and then urge approval of the
conference report by this body.
In the Senate version of the measure
we prescribed that all declarations con-
cerni:tg the inability of the President or
of hi;; ability to perform the powers and
duties of that office, particularly a dee-
larat,on concerning his readiness to re-
sume the powers and duties of his office
made by the President of the United
States himself, be transmitted to the
Speaker of the House and to the Presi-
dent of the Senate.
Tie conference committee report pro-
poses that those declarations go to the
Speaker and to the President pro tem-
pore of the Senate. The reason for the
change is, of course, that the Vice Presi-
dent, who is also the President of the
Senate, would be participating in mak-
ing as declaration of presidential inability,
and therefore would be unable to trans-
mit his own declaration to himself. In
add Lion, I believe that we would be on
better legal ground not to send the dec-
laration to a party in interest. The
Vint President, who would be shortly as-
suring or seeking to assume the powers
and duties of the office, would indeed be
a party in interest.
In the Senate version of the bill we
did not specify that If the President were
to surrender his powers and duties volun-
tarly-and I emphasize the word "voI-
uni arils"-he could resume them im-
mefiately upon declaring that his in-
ability no longer existed. We believe
that our language clearly implied this.
Certainly the intention was made clear
in the debate on the question on the
fla>r of the Senate and In the record of
our committee hearings, but the At-
toiney General of the United States re-
qu3sted that we be more specific on this
Pont so as to encourage a President to
moire a voluntary declaration to the
effect that he was unable to perform the
powers and duties of the office, if it was
necessary for him to do so.
We made that point clear in the con-
ference committee report.
We added specific language enabling
the President to resume his powers and
duties immediately, with no waiting
period, if he had given up his powers
and duties by voluntary declaration,
That had been the intention of the
Senate all along, as I recall the colloquy
which took place on the floor of the
Senate; and we had no objection to mak-
ing that Intention crystal clear in the
wording of the proposed constitutional
amendment itself.
In the Senate version we prescribed
that the President, having been divested
of his powers and duties by declaration
of the Vice President and a majority of
the Cabinet, or such other body as Con-
gress by law may provide, could resume
the powers and duties of the office of
President upon his declaration that no
inability e,nsted, unless within 7 days
the Vice President and a majority of the
Cabinet or the other lbody issued a dec-
laration challenging the President's in-
tention. The House version prescribed
that the waiting period be 2 days. The
conference compromised on 4 days, and
I urge the Senate to accept that as a
reasonable compromise between the
time limits Imposed by the two bodies.
Furthermore, we have clarified lan-
guage, at the request of the Senate con-
ferees, to make crystal clear that the
Vice President must be a party to any
action declaring the President unable
to perform his powers and duties.
I remember well the words of Presi-
dent Eisenhower before the American
Bar Association conference, when he
said that it is a constitutional obligation
of the Vice President to help make these
decisions. We in the Senate felt that to
be the case, and thus changed the lan-
guage a bit to make it specifically clear.
That, I am sure, had been the inten-
tion of both the Senate and the House.
but we felt that the language was not
specific enough, so we clarified it on that
point.
The Senate conferees accepted a
House amendment requiring the Con-
gress to convene within 48 hours, if they
were not then in session, and if the Vice
President and a majority of the Cabinet
or the other body were to challenge the
President's declaration that he, the
Chief Executive, were not disabled or,
once again, able to perform the powers
and duties of his office.
We feel that the requirement would
encourage speedy disposition of the
question by the Congress, and I urge its
acceptance by the Senate.
Finally, the Senate version imposed
longtime limitations upon the Congress
to settle a dispute as to whether the
President or the Vice President could
perform the powers and duties of the
office of President Senators know the
question would come to the Congress
only if the Vice President, who would
then be acting as President, were to
challenge, in conjunction with a major-
ity of the Cabinet, the President's decla-
ration that no inability existed. The
House version imposed a 10-day time
limitation. The Senate conferees were
willing to have a time limitation as a
further safeguard to the President, but
we were unanimous in agreeing that 10
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June 30, 1965 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD - SENATE
the Sensor back to the definition which
I read into the RECORD at the time the
Senate passed this measure earlier this
year....
Mr. KENNEDY of New York. It was
that definition which I was seeking to
reemphasize. May I ask one other ques-
tion? Is it not true that the Inability
referred to must be expected to be of
long duration, or at least one whose
duration is uncertain and might persist?
Mr. BAYH. Here again I think one
of the advantages of this particular
amendment is the leeway it gives us. We
are not talking about the kind of in-
ability in which the President went to
the dentist and was under anesthesia.
It is not that type of inability we are
talking about, but the Cabinet, as well
as the Vice President and Congress, are
going to have to judge the severity of the
disability and the problems that face our
country.
Perhaps the Senator from New York
would like to rephrase the question.
Mr. KENNEDY of New York. Is it not
true that what we are talking about here,
as far as inability is concerned, is not a
brief or temporary inability?
Mr. BAYH. We are talking about one
that would seriously impair the Presi-
dent's ability to perform the powers and
duties of his office.
Mr. KENNEDY of New York. Could a
President have such inability I or a short
period of time?
Mr. BAYH. A President who was un-
conscious for 30 minutes when missiles
were flying toward this country might
only be disabled temporarily, but it would
be of severe consequence when viewed in
the light of the problems facing the
country.
So at, that time, even for that short
duration, someone would have to make a
decision. But a disability which has per-
Slated for only a short time would ordi-
narily be excluded. If a President were
unable to make an Executive decision
which might have severe consequences
for the country, I think we would be bet-
ter off under the conditions of the
amendment,
Mr. KENNEDY of New York. The
Senator realizes the complications for
the people of this country and the world
under those circumstances.
Mr. BAYH. I do, indeed. I also rec-
ognize our difficulty if we had no amend-
mentat all. The Senator from New
York realizes the consequences In that
case. The Senator Is aware of the time
limitations which give the President a
certain amount of leeway now. If he re-
covers from the illness within the time
limitations, he would have protection un-
der the amendment.
Mr. KENNEDY of New York. As I said
at the beginning, I believe there should
be a. continuing study of the problem.
Based on my own personal experience
and. on what was brought out in the
hearings, I believe that members of the
Cabinet could be subjected to political
strains of one kind or another under cer-
tain, circumstances of danger which
mi'bt;arise for the United States. They
might be Impelled to challenge the Presi-
dent's ability and capacity for the wrong
No. 118-22
reasons. And when we think of the great
crisis in 1919 with President Wilson and
Mr. Lansing, It is apparent that under
the procedure set out in section 4 of Sen-
ate Joint Resolution I there could ac-
tually be a question as to who was acting
as President of the United States at a
particular time. That is why this sub-
ject should receive continuing study by
this body to determine whether an al-
ternative to the Cabinet's acting could
be evolved.
What If the President of the United
States made a decision which was very
unpopular with members of his Cabinet?
I think back to the time of Abraham
Lincoln in 1863. I think back to the
time of President Andrew Johnson, and
recall how unpopular he was with all the
members of his Cabinet. They could
have taken action, under the slightest
pretext, to have him removed. Even
with all the protections provided, I say
the situation is dangerous. We would
be deluding ourselves in thinking that
by adopting the amendment the danger
to our people and the people around the
world would disappear, because a danger
would still exist. The subject deserves
our continuing effort and attention.
Mr. BAYH. I agree. There is leeway
with respect to Congress and the com-
mittees and the Cabinet.
In discussing dangers to the people,
think of the danger after President Gar-
field had been felled by a bullet and we
had no President for 80 days. The dan-
ger of such a situation in this day and
age Is considerably more than the dan-
ger that could arise if the provisions of
this amendment were invoked.
Mr. KENNEDY of New York, That
is why I intend to support this amend-
ment.
Mr. BAYH. I appreciate the Senator's
comments.
CONTINUATION OF AUTHORITY
FOR REGULATION OF EXPORTS
Mr. MANSFIELD. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield without losing the
floor?
Mr. BAYH. I yield.
Mr. MANSFIELD. I ask unanimous
consent, for the purpose of providing
regular procedure, that the considera-
tion of Calendar No. 352, H.R. 7105, fol-
low consideration of the present confer-
ence report.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The bill
will be stated by title.
The LEGISLATIVE CLERK. A bill (H.R.
7105) to provide for continuation of au-
thority for regulation of exports, and for
other purposes.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Is there
objection to the request? Without ob-
PRESIDENTIAL INABILI YAS~') VA-
T
CANCIES IN THE OFFICE O THE
VICE PRESIDENT
The Senate resumed the consideration
of the report of the committee of con-
ference on the disagreeing votes of the
two Houses on the amendment of the
40
House to the joint resolution (S.J. Res.
1) proposing an amendment to the Con-
stitution of the United States relating to
succession to the Presidency and Vice-
Presidency and to cases where the Presi-
dent is unable to discharge the powers
and duties of his office.
Mr. BAYU and Mr. McCARTHY ad-
dressed the Chair.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
Senator from Minnesota.
Mr. McCARTHY. If it were not for
the fact that the amendment provides
that the Congress of the United States
has a right to designate some body other
than the Cabinet to pass upon the ques-
tion of Presidential disability, I could
not support the amendment, The Sen-
ator from New York has pointed out the
necessity, and I hope that the appro-
priate committees of the Congress and
the Congress will give consideration to
some other body's passing upon the ques-
tion of Presidential disability. If that
provision were not in the amendment, I
could not support the proposed amend-
ment, and I would urge its rejection.
History shows that it is better to have
one sane king rather than two who are
not, each one of them claiming to be the
right king. There is the possibility of
a situation 'n which one man, having
been elected President, claims he was
capable of exercising the duties of his
office, and the other person, the Vice
President, engages in a letter-writing
contest as to which is the appropriate
man. Ther^ could be a body other than
the Cabinet which should have the abil-
ity to make a decision which would have
the effect of giving the American public
confidence _n the person they had ap-
proved and a disposition not to accept
the authority of someone who would be
disapproved.
It is my judgment that it would have
been better to follow the recommenda-
tions made by the Senator from Illinois
[Mr. DIRwsEN] and not try to be so spe-
cific as provided in?the present amend-
ment.
Mr. KENNEDY of New York. Mr.
President, will the Senator yield?
Mr. McCARTHY. I Yield.
Mr. KENNEDY of New York, Let us
go back to another situation, which I
am sure the Senator from Indiana rec-
ognizes. A Cabinet decides that a Pres-
ident was disabled. The President fires
the Cabinet. The members of the Cab-
inet say they did not receive notice that
they were fired until after they had de-
clared the President disabled, The Pres-
ident says he fired them first. If the
Congress is in recess, the President ap-
points another Cabinet, or else he says
the Deputies and Under Secretaries are
now the Cabinet. There would be two
Presidents and two Cabinets. There
would be a conflict as to which ones
were the members of the Cabinet and
as to whether the members of the first
Cabinet had made the decision before
or after they were fired by the President.
It is recognized by the proposed leg-
islation that this is a problem, I do not
believe the danger disappears by the
adoption of the amendment. I do not
think, when we adopt the measure, that
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14834 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD -SENATE
the problems of our Executive are gone
and that we do not have to worry about
It any more. We have to continue to
worry about it. Although the legislation
is better than the situation at the pres-
ent time, there will be situations which
might cause difficulty.
Mr. McCARTHY. Generally speak-
Ing, it is better, but there could be worse
situations arising under the amendment
than there would have been under the
indeterminate and vague way in which
we could have moved.
The amendment has nothing to say
about whether the executive officers
who pass on the disability have been
confirmed by the Senate. This is a
point which might well be included in
the amendment. I believe that they
have to be executive officers confirmed
by the Senate. We would have to work
out the making of temporary appoint-
ments. The Senator front New York
said that we could have two Cabinets.
This would something like the old days
in Avignon, when there were two Popes,
which created a great deal of trouble,
the same kind of trouble which was
created for many, many years In Eng-
land when two Kings claimed the crown.
It has meant nothing but trouble.
I do not know whether, under this
amendment, the executive officers would
have to be confirmed by the Senate.
They could be temporary appointees,
which could be passed upon by the Sen-
ate.
Mr. GORE. Mr. President, will the
Senator from Minnesota yield?
The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. Han-
ars in the chair). Does the Senator
from Minnesota yield to the Senator
from Tennessee?
Mr. McCARTHY. I yield.
Mr. GORE. The Senator from Min-
nesota finds some consolation In the fact
that, If I have understood him correctly,
the amendment provides that Congress
could designate another body by law..
I invite his attention to the possibility
that this could compound the question,
because the amendment reads:
*henevef the Vice President and a ma-
jority of either Moen; of the executive de-
partinents or of such other body as Congress
;rosy .by law provide.
1 -4 should like to Inquire of the Senntcr
it, in addition=...
Mr: McCARTHY. Ask the Senator
Irpln. Indiana.
Mr. GORE. There would be a pos-
albpity, of a contest or controversy be-
tween the Cabinet that may or may not
have been dismissed, and one which may
ormayhot have been confirmed by the
Senate. Might there not be the prob-
ablllt r 'of a contest between the two
groups which, by the conjunction or, are
Iihimitfed to perform the same function?
24 McCA1THY. I believe that there
is great uncertainty as to whether Con-
$res's could act and designate some other
group, or define the executive officers
who were to pass upon this question-
ofcers who would beapproved by Con-
gtesa. $ut this is an open question. I
!should like to ask the Senator from Indi-
,a11advhether this Is an open question, or
v.%he`therthere is some uncertainty.
Mr. BP YH. First, let me go into a
brief expatiation of why this provision
was included. This was the result of the
consensus meeting with scholars and ex-
Attorneya General whom I shall not
bother t(= enumerate, trying for the first
time in congressional history to weld to-
get,her tie 42 different proposals which
previous S came before Congress. This
has always been historically a problem,
In tryini}to reach agreement and to rec-
oncile the differences in order to obtain
a two-thirds majority.
It was felt that if there was an arbi-
trary C:ibinet that completely refused to
go along with the fact that the Presi-
dent, Mho was obviously disabled, was
disabled-the condition referred to by
the Senator from New York-the Presi-
dent might get wind of it and, although
be might be in extremely bad condition,
he might manage to have Issued a docu-
ment fring the Cabinet. This would not
preclude Congress, in Its wisdom, from
establishing another panel, perhaps, of
the majority and minority leaders of
both :louses, the Chief Justice of the
Suprene Court. We in our wisdom as
Memters of Congress, would do so be-
cause it is wise. This body, in conjunc-
tion v4th the Vice President, could make
its de Rrmination.
Mr McCARTHY. In the meantime,
who would control the Army, Navy, and
Air Farce?
Mr, BAYH. The President of the
Unit(id States.
Mr. McCARTHY. Whoever he might
be.
M:: BAYH. Whoever he might be.
Mr. McCARTHY. Which one might
be?
Mr. BAYH. He would be the Presi-
deril, until a declaration from the Vice
President and a majority of the Cabinet
or the other body had been made and
recdved by the Speaker
Mr, McCARTHY. We do not accept
the determination of this body. We are
gong to set up another body.
Mr. BAYH. That is correct.
Par. McCARTHY. Congress would
hale to act quickly to set up another
body which might act in such a case.
!dr. GORE. Mr. President, will the
Senator from Minnesota Yield?
Mr. McCARTHY. I Yield.
Mr. GORE. The answer of the Son-
ator from Indiana indicates that he is
ttinicing of the possibility of action by
Congress at such time, and after such
time as there may be an obstinate, non-
e:dstent, or otherwise Inactive Cabinet.
As I read the proposed amendment,
Congress could, by law, provide now, sub-
saquent to approval of this amendment-
Mr. BAYH. The Senator is correct.
Mr, GORE. For such a body. Or,
to add still further to the uncertainty.
it could await such time as the Senator
has foreseen when, because of uncer-
ainties, or because of uncertainties
which are not now unforeseen. Con-
gress could act at that time.
Mr. McCARTHY. I am not sure
whether this body could not be a body
within the Congress itself.
Mr. GORE. Will the Senator yield
once more?
June 30, 1965
Mr. McCARTHY. I am glad to yield
to the Senator from Tennessee.
Mr. GORE. This Is done specifically
for the purpose of giving Congress a cer-
tain amount of leeway which the Sen-
ator from Minnesota feels It should have?
Mr. BAYH. I should be glad to re-
spond to that. Any time Congress in its
wisdom thought it necessary, if further
discussion and deliberation on this issue
by Congress lei it to believe that another
body should be established, it could es-
tablish it.
Mr. GORE. Do I correctly understand
the able Senator to say that Congress
could, immediately upon adoption of this
constitutional amendment, provide by
law for such a body as herein specified
and that, then,'either it majority of this
body created by law or a majority of the
Cabinet could perform this function?
Mr. BAYH, No. The Cabtnet has the
primary responsibllty. If It Is replaced
by Congress with another body, the
Cabinet loses the responsibility, and it
rests solely in the other body.
Mr. GORE. But the amendment does
net so provide.
Mr. BAYH. Yes, it does. It states-
Mr. GORE. The word Is "or."
Mr. BAYH, It says "or." It does not
say "both." "Or such other body as
Congress may by law prescribe."
I wish the RECORD to be abundantly
clear that that is the case. tarn glad the
Senator brought up that point. I be-
lieve that this colloquy on that point Is
important and should be added to that
already in the RECORD.
The Cabinet, upon enactment of rati-
fication, has the responsibility, unless
Congress chooses another body, at which
time that other body, and that other
body alone, working in conjunction with
the Vice President, has the responsibility.
Indeed, Congress may choose a third
body.
Mr. GORE. Mr: President, will the
Senator from Minnesota yield?
Mr. MCCARTRY, I yield.
Mr. GORE. I suppose it might be
possible to read legislative Intent into
this conjunction, but--
Mr. BAYH. If I may Interrupt here-
let me read the exact wording: "and a
majority of either the principal officers of
the executive departments or-"
Either/or "of such other body as Con-
gress may by law provide."
So when there is an "either/or" solu-
tion, it nails it down to one or the other.
Mr. GORE. It seems to me that If It is
"either/or" it places the two on a par-
Mr. BAYH. I do not see how that
would be the case at all. The Cabinet
has the responsibility. What if Congress
by law should provide for another body
that It feels should have the responsi-
bility?
Mr.. GORE. Then it has such a re-
sponsibility, too.
Mr. BAYH. Then it has such a re-
sponsibility, too.
Mr.McCARTHY. Could we not have
both?
Mr. BAYH. If we have one or the
other, we do not have both. If I have
apples or pears, I do not have both.
Mr. McCARTHY. Under the language
of the amendment we could keep the
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 June 30, 1965 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ,= SE IT9 14835
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a particular time Congress reasonably be interpreted to Indicate
could r'uij,~~. rough two or.three bodies, might by law set up another body. This that I would go to both. It would be
sild have the Cabinet act and then have body, upon agreeing with the Vice Presi- either one or the other.
the other body act. dent, again might declare that the Presi- Mr. COOPER. Then the intent of the
Mr. BAYIJ. Whatever body acts dent was unable to perform his duties. conference committee was that the Ian-
should act quickly. At this time the Vice President would guage meant that unless another body
Mr. McCARTHY. The Vice President assume the office of Acting President. were established by law, the Vice Presi-
would have to act with either body. We Mr. COOPER. Then it is the inten- dent and the Cabinet would perform the
might have a .Vice President who would tion, that this function and duty shall be function; but in the event that Congress
be reluctant to take office, and the. Gov- that of the Vice President and the Cab- should establish another body by law,
erriment would be paralyzed, unless the inet unless the Congress provides that it that body alone would have the authority
Vice President were willing to say, "I shall be performed by another body. to exercise the function, and in that
believe the President is not able to act." Is that correct? event, the Vice President and the Cabi-
Mr. BAYH. It would be possible to im- Mr. BAYH. The Senator is correct. net would be without authority to exer-
peach the President and the Vice Presi- Mr. COOPER. The duty would fall cise the function.
dent. on the Vice President and the Cabinet, Mr. BAYH. It would then be exer-
-Mr. MCCARTHY. It would not be pos- unless Congress by law provided that it cised by the Vice President and the other
sible to impeach the Vice President un- should be the function of some other body. The Cabinet would be out of the
less he were not willing to preside over body created by Congress. Is that Picture at that time.
the Senate or to vote in the case of a correct? Mr. COOPER. I raise another
tie. queve
Mr. BAYH. We cannot put the Vice The PRESIDING OFFICER. The anon. Would the Vice President have
. to in
President in office if he Is unwilling to COOPER. Senator is R. . It is any Pa play the yeisere es t-
Mr. assume the office. words s of the intended f executive c ve event t h that t another body were es tab-
Mr. McCARTHY. He might be suffer- dep departments" mean all ll the "principal officer members of lished?
e Mr. from inability himself, even before the Cabinet? hmm The . Vice BAYH. The President ansmake President, I believe the amendment Mr. Cabinet? must either t the a Cabi-
should
should provide that the elected officers It m.eanns s h. the official The Senator
members Se mr isbers of oft the e net rate r another with either the Cabi-
the Gover17 emr ment, of the House and Cabinet. Mr. anothe. COOPERbody.
. R. In either event the
Senate, should decide that the President Mr. COOPER. In case the Cabinet Vice President must participate?
is unable to fulfill the duties of his office, acted and performed this function, the Mr. BAYH. I think it is wise to bring
and we ought to be ablp to move directly.
?~_? a '.' +?- nL. i ymm. mit information to the Congress that the dent. If i- its wisdom the Con
114r. COOPER.-.. Mr. President, I should President suffered from an inability. gress
should decide that another body should
like to directquestions to the distip- Mr. BAYH. The Vice President must make the determination, in the public
guished Senator from Indiana, who is be a party to the decision. interest of the country, as the Senator
managing the conference xeport. I join Mr. COOPER. I believe it is well to from New York and the Senator from
with all my colleagues in. paying tribute have an answer to another question. In Minnesota feel would be the case, and
to the Senator' for sponsoring the pro- the event Congress decided to enact leg- the Congress should go to the trouble of
Posed constitutional amendment and for islation to provide that another body, a Passing proposed legislation appointing
his persistent effort to bring it to final body other than the Cabinet and the Vice such another body, at that time the
action. I raise these questions with re- President, should perform this function, newly created body and not the Cabinet
spect to particular phraseology of the would the Vice President be required to would act with the Vice President.
amendment. F quote this language: concur in the recommendation of such Mr. GORE. Mr. President, will the
Whenever the Vice President and a. ma- other body? Senator yield?
jority of either the principal officers of the Mr. BAYH. Yes, he would. Mr. BAYH. I yield.
executive ilepa tments or of such other body Mr. COOPER. Not unless Congress Mr. GORE. I should like to submit a
as Congress may by law provide, transmit to
the President pro tempore of 6enate. so Provided in legislation that it might question to the distinguished senior Sen-
. the ,
enact? ator from Kentucky, who has been a dis-
And so forth. The. language is re- Mr. BAYH. The wording of the tinguished judge. Suppose in conse-
peated in the next paragraph. , _ amendment ent would permit two separate quence of the amendment Congress
Is it the iutentionof, Congress, as in- agencies, either the Vice President and should proceed by law to create such a
terpreted by the Senator 1d'.olu.Indiam, the Executive Cabinet, or the Vice Pres- body as has been referred to. Then
who is in charge of the conference report, ident and the other body, suppose at some foreseeable period a Vice
that the Vice President and a majority Mr. COOPER. As I understood the President should appear before such a
of the principal officers, of the executive question raised by the Senator from body, or with such a body, and that body
departments would transmit the infer- Tennessee and the Senator. from Minne- should decline to act. Would there be
matio4 of the President's inability to sots, it was their fear that both the any reason why, under the constitutional
perform his duties to Congress, unless Cabinet and the Vice President, and an- amendment, the Vice President and a
Congress had ,ly legislgtive action pro- other body which Congress might estab- majority of the principal officers of the
vided for the .estab]ish[nent of, another lish, might claim the authority to per- executive departments could not then
body to perform this function? form this function. The question of the act?
Mr. BAYH. I should like to answer Senator from Tennessee [Mr. GORE] ex- Mr. COOPER. That is one of the
-the Senator's question by setting up a pressed concern that the words "either" questions which the Senator from Ten-
hypothetical example. If the President and "or" might give rise to a situation nessee originally posed, and it is a ques-
became disabled, the Vice President in which the Vice President and a ma- tion to which I have directed questions
would get the Cabinet together and say, jority of the Cabinet, and a body which to the Senator from Indiana, [Mr. BAYxI.
"Gentlemen, I think the best interests of Congress might establish, would both It is easy for one who was not a member
the country would be served If I, reluct- claim the authority to exercise the fungi- of the conference committee and one who
ant as I am, assumed the powers and tion. Is there any problem about the use is not on the Subcommittee on Constitu-
duties of President." of those words that troubles the Sena- tional Amendments and did not partici-
The Cabinet, let us for from Indiana? Pate in its work, and one who has not
assume, would Mr. BAYH. That is a good point to worked on the question as has the dis-
refuse to agree. s.. . clarify for the RECORD. However, in my tinguished Senator from Indiana and the
4ngre$?s~, in f, s.syir$,Cjpji, tipon studying mind it is perfectly clear that if I said distinguished Senator from Nebraska
the ,gituati;q and the pbvious physical I would go to the office of either the [Mr. HRuSKAI to raise questions. I ad-
condition of he ,President, might judge Senator from Kentucky or the Senator mit it, but I think It important that ques-
that the Vice President Tai - corr t. from Tennessee, my statement would t tions be asked. on such an important
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p~~qqiC1Np~~'~Fc gg A
A04ved For Release 2003/1 .C&A?b 67S00448R00050 SENATE
matter. It is easy also, with hindsight, the language of the amendment, because the disability of the President? Can
to think of better language. But I must the ls,nguage of the amendment, in my this mean that Congress could by statute
say; that I believe the language could be opinion, does not support the interpre- eliminate the function of the Cabinet
given
a
the
1, such f the Senator
which
t from e Indiana havewbeenodirected to he totitYI would be glad showever, to listen ahmajorityo ofld he Cabinet even though
intent of the committee respecting the to his interpretation. such powers would have been vested by
language. The courts pay attention, but Mr. BAYH. I really have nothing to the proposed constitutional amendment?
not all, to such declarations of intent. offer that I have not already offered- It seems to me that that is an unrea-
-Mr. GORE. If that is what the con- perhaps insufficiently-to the Senator sonable assumption. it is regrettable
fereet mean, I suggest that the amend- from Tennessee. The Vice President that for so long a time this: constitutional
meat should so provide. We are not would make the determination with one need has not been met. It is to be re-
passing on conversations held between of tw5 bodies or three bodies. The choice gretted that 18 months have passed in
the conferees. The Congress is asked wool([ not necessarily be limited to one which this problem has not been dealt
to adopt language which provides that- other body, The Congress might, in its with satisfactorily. But I doubt whether
whenever the Vice President and a major- wisdom 100 years from now, decide to that is any excuse to proceed in one
sty of either the principal officers of the ex- choo:.e the third body. One of those afternoon, on the floor of the Senate,
ecutive departments or of such other body as bodies would be the body with which the to adopt a conference report containing
Congress may be law provide. Vice President would act. Let the Rec- an ambiguous provision, when the au-
That is what is before the Senate. Un- oan so state. That is what the commit- thor of the amendment himself and the
doubtedly there have been many confer- tee feels. That is what I, as the original conferees themselves say it does not
sponsor of the measure, feel. That is mean what it says.
angel d be pl cut when but eco es language what the conferees believe. I do not Mr. BAYS. The Senator from Indiana
should p explicit when It becomes a part know, how we can get into the RECORD does not agree with the Senator from
of the V.S. Constitution. a stronger interpretation than that Tennessee that the amendment does not
Mr. COOPER. The reason I directed which has been brought out by the pene- mean what; it says. I differ with the in-
questionsto theSenator from Indiana trati ag questioning of the Senator from terpretation of the Senator from Ten-
LMr,.Bnvxl, was that his answers as the Tennessee. nessee. The RECORD will show that the
Senator in charge of the bill are impof?- Mn GORE. Mr. President, will the Senate spent almost 7 hours debating the
tent in the interpretation of the Senator yield? subject earlier in this session, and that
amendment. M:,. BAYH. I am happy to yield. the Senator from Tennessee Participated
Mr. BAYH. The language to which M'. GORE. If that is the clear intent in the debate.
the Senator has referred has not been of the authors of the amendment and the I am not saying that reasonable men
changed one iota from the specific lan- conferees, why cannot the conferees re- cannot disagree, but I a saying that,
guece alhieh was passed by this body. turn to their labors and prepare lan- in my estimation, the interpretation is
the conference report does not alter that gua?:e that is explicit? clear. I am further saying that if I am
language. Any interpretation of the Mr. BAYH. The Senator from Ten- any judge of what Congress might do
Constitution, as the Senator knows, In- nessee has been in the halls of this great when confronted with situations pro-
eludes reference to the record of the bad!, much longer than has the junior when for f tne with ua the Sro-
d'eliate, the record of the hearings, and measure-
Senator from Indiana. I do not believe ator from Tennessee is probably a better
specific interpretations placed upon the that it is necessary for his extremely judge than I of what this body might do,
measure by the Senator in charge of the junior colleague to point out that we because he has served considerably
bill. Those who have been In particular have been 178 years getting a measure on longer and with much greater distinc-
inilmate touch with it are those whose this subject even voted upon in either tion-I presume that our successors on
statements are considered in an inter- Hot se of Congress. I do not need to scene in this body, if confronted
pretation of the measure; The Senator point out that it has been 18 months and a a ssceuation that they bcnfro the
has made a considerable contribution to with later mole the subject of deliberation by both Cabinet could deal -it might be to-
the debate by raising that point at the Hot es of Congress to get it thus far. morrow-would, in the enactment of a
present time. It took us almost almost 2 months in the law specifying another body, be astute
Mr. COOPER. The statements of the conference committee alone. I would enough to use enough words to satisfy
Senator from Indiana are more Impor- seriously doubt the wisdom of going back themselves that such a body would in
taut than our statements. to the conferees to risk undoing every- fact replace the Cabinet, pursuant to
Mr. BAYH. I would not go along with thing that has been done-the House constitutional authority.
the Senator from Kentucky on that. already adopted the conference report The Senator from Tennessee knows
Mr. COOPER. From a legal stand- thirafternoon at a quarter after twelve-
point, that Is correct, for the Senator on the premise that we cannot under- that it is much easier to be specific and
from Indiana Is the Senator in charge of sta:id what is in the measure. The Sen- to provide much greater detail in a stat-
the bill.' The Senator's statements bear ator from Indiana, with all respect, feels ute than in a constitutional amendment.
upon the intent of the Senate to a greater that we have written a very good record I believe a'e would have been in error to
degree than our statements would. as to what that language means, if, in- have written all this language into the
Mr.BAYH. I have made as crystal deed, there is any doubt of its Proper Constitution. I believe we have been
clear as I know how that the Vice Presi- interpretation. The Senator from Ten- specific enough to have covered the in-
dent must make a determination, and he nessee is a student of law and has ex- tent.
would make that determination with the pressed doubt. For that reason, we have Mr. GORE. Is it the Senator's inter-
Cabinet unless the Congress- gone to some length to explain what pretation. that the language should read
Mr. GORE. But the word "unless" is the interpretation of the language is. somewhat as follows:
not in the amendment. - Mr. GORE. If I understand the rule whenever the Vice President and a major-
Mr.BAYH. If the Senator from Ten- of construction as to legislative intent ity of either the principal officers of the ex-
nessee would like to listen to my thoughts and the interpretation of that intent is ecutive departments or, in the event Con-
on the point, I should be glad to state locked to only when there is doubt as to grass creates another body pursuant to
law, then the Vice President and a majority
:them for the RECORD. - the exact and precise meaning of a stat- of such other body as Congress by law shall
Mr. GORE. But the Senator has used utu or constitutional provision. create-
a word that is not in the proposed The able Senator has given us what Mr. BAYH. I see no objection to that
amendment. he--.regards as the legislative intent. I interpretation of what is written in the
Mr. BAYH. I should be glad to change do not doubt that what he has stated is amendment.
the word I have used if that would help th i legislative intent. But why will the Mr. CORE. If that is what is in-
the Senator. I have not been able to le?.islative intent be searched out and in- tended, why could not the is what is
write
make the interpretation clear by using te?preted to ascertain the meaning of into we ymenmott? I do not si te t another word; I thought I would try a language which states clearly that the it the to teamed ent?~t to that kind of
little different approach. Vi:e President, acting either with a ma-ment is
Mr. GORE. I can understand the dif- jolty of the Cabinet or with a majority interpretation, though, as the Senator
ng o a bed created by Congress can certify says, that is the legislative intent.
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 June 30 1965 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD - SENATE 14837
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Mr. BAYH; I feel, with all due respect nominations have been confirmed by the authority foy Congress to act. Will the
to tt,e Setla$.or.front Tennessee, that the
Intevpretatlon is clear that if Congress
specifies another body, it will not do so
as a lark; it will do so because it wants
another body to replace the Cabinet,
which would have the primary respon-
sibility until Congress precribed another
body.
The Senator from Tennessee knows
that if there were to be a conference for
every little misinterpretation that might
be involved among 106 Senators, we
would never obtain a conference report.
The Senator from Tennessee is more
aware of this than I, because he was serv-
Ing on conference committees before I
was out of knee pants.
Mr. GORE. I appreciate all the nice
compliments, but I doubt if that is a com-
pliment.
Mr. BAYH. The Seniir from Indiana
Intended it to be a compliment, because
the Senator from Tennessee knows how
much respect the_Senator from Indiana
has for him.
Mr. GORE. I appreciate the respect;
but do not, put too much longevity on me.
Mr. JAVITS. Mr.Prgsident, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. BAYH. I yield. Mr. JAVITS, I have joined the dis-
tinguished Senatorfroyr Indiana pr a
long time in the endeavor, to solve the
problem and am a cosponsor of Senate
Joint Resolution 1. I jhpyld now Ake
to propound a series of ,Questions to him,
in an endeavor to pinpoint what he has
said In the answers he has given to other
Senators.
First, would the Vice President, under
section 4, have to act with a majority
of the principal officers of the executive
departments or of the, thgl? body that
Congress would provide y law, or would
he act in and of himself, sending to Con-
gress whatever notices he wished?
Mr . BAYH It has t9bejoint action.
Mr. JAVITS. ? Both ,have to act; but
it does not have to be joint action in the
sense that he is presiding over any body.
Mr. BAYH. No.
Mr. JAVITS. He Sends his notice and
the executive body sends its notice,
Mr. BAYH. Either way1 Or they
could act together.
Mr. JAVITS. But they could act sep-
arately.
Mr. BAYH. Yes....
Mr. JAVITS. If they were hostile, they
could act separately.
Mr. BAYH. Yes.
Mr. JAVITS. The .,action must be
taken by a majority vote?
Mr. BAYH. Majorityvote.
Mr. JAVITS. Suppose they did not
like each other. If they separately noti-
fled Congress, would that satisfy the
amendment'
Mr. BAYH. I think that would satisfy
the qualification.
Mr. JAVITS. Congress may, by law,
provide for another .,bpdy. May it pro-
vide?thaa,t that ether body shall be the
Cabinet?
Mr. BAYH. VYes:
Mr. JAVITS., It may provide at the
same time that, It shalt be the Cabinet
only if it is composed of officers whose
Mr. BAYH. 'The Senator from New
York brings out a good point.
Mr. JAVITS. So we could do that
ourselves by law?
Mr. BAYH. That is correct.
Mr. 'JAVITS. We could make them
the body.
Mr. BAYH. Yes.
Mr.'JAVITS, Gould we also, by law,
say that when we create the body, we
settle the question of "either"; that is,
that only one can take action; that
whatever body we create, it is exclusive?
Mr. BAYH. That is what I was trying
to point out.
Mr. JAVITS. Let us point it out now
and nail it down.
Mr. BAYH. Congress in its wisdom
could; in the enactment of the law,
specify that the body should take the
place of the Cabinet, and a new Cabinet
could be created.
Mr.JAVITS. The body created by
Congress is exclusive?
Mr. BAYH. Yes.
Mr. JAVItS. Whether Congress
would or would not specify that the body
should take the place of the Cabinet
neither the Senator from Indiana nor I
know. But the point is that Congress
could.
Mr. BAYH. That would depend upon
the wisdom of those who follow us.
Mr. JAVITS. Congress could make
the body it created exclusive?
Mr. BAYH. Yes.
Mr. JAVITS. Twenty-one days are
provided in which the Congress must act
on determination of Presidential dis-
ability. Congress has provided, Implic-
itly under the 21-day limitation, restric-
tions on a filibuster, a precedent for
which is contained in the Reorganize-
period, nothing would prevent Congress
from continuing to discuss the situation;
but at the end of 21 days, the President
would resume his office.
Mr. JAVITS. Nonetheless, Congress
could protect itself against filibusters by
writing an antiglibuster rule into the
statute that would be passed to imple-
ment the amendment, could it not?
Mr. BAYH. That is correct.
Mr. JAVITS. Congress has done that
under the Reorganization Act. The Sen-,
ator may take my word for that.
Mr. BAYH. Of course. I was trying
to tie it in with this particular issue,
There would be nothing to preclude Con-
gress from establishing rules as to how
to use the 21 days. Congress could in-
corporate any rule it desired.
Mr. JAVITS. So inaction would re-
store the President to office.
Mr. BAYH. Yes. We, are trying to
place a safeguard around the President.
Mr. JAVITS. Why is there not a ge-
neric clause providing that Congress
shall have power to pass legislation to
implement the amendment, as, for exam-
ple, was done with respect to section 2
of the 14th amendment? I have tried,
by the questions and answers that have
been propounded and given, to show that
Senator now tell us whether there was
any reason for not having a boilerplate
implementing clause with respect to Con-
gressi
Mr. BAYH. Yes; that is a good point.
The Senator may recall that we discussed
it at some length. When the distin-
guished Senator from Illinois and the
distinguished Senator from Minnesota
attempted to remove most, if not all, of
the provisions from the bill, sections 3,
4, 5, and 6, as they were before, were
Incorporated. They do not constitute
merely permissive legislation on the part
of Congress.
There is considerable discussion
among constitutional scholars, the pres-
ent Attorney General, Attorney General
Brownell, and three or four previous
Awhttethrneerys a Geneal who feel doubt as to
o statute would 'be consti'tu-
tional. They say, "tet ?us'not wait until
we are confronted with 4 crisis concern-
ing the disability of the President to have
it tested. Let us put it, in the bedrock
law of the land and eliminate doubt as to
whether it is constitutional."
Second and I believe it is more signif-
icant-is the fact that we have tried to
provide the President of the United
States with the kind of safeguards_that
he needs when, lag must p?*e.,gppopnlar
decisions which are, necessary. for the
safety of our country. For that reason,
w. e have, required that the approval of
two-thirds of the Senate shall be neces-
sary before the President, can be removed
from office by impeachment. Thus, a
hostile Congress cannot remove. a Presi-
dent who is unpopular at the time be-
cause of decisions which he has made.
Once he is elected President, he. serves
for 4 years.
If we were to take the statutory means,
although?it would still require two-thirds
of the Senate to remove a President from
office under Impeachment. proceedings,
a majority of 51 Senators could remove
a President for. disability and thus get
around the. two-thirds safety clause con-
tained in our. present impeachment
statute. Thus we feel that if we were
to have a provision placed in the,Con-
stitutlon requiring the approval of two-
thirds of both Houses of the Congress,
we would have given the President much
more safety than a mere act of Congress,
which is the. original case, providing that
two-thirds of the House and Senate
would be required to declare a President
disabled rather than a simple majority.
This could be changed at any time in
our history.
I believe that this is important enough
so that we should demand that the ap-
proval of two-thirds of the Congress be
required before a President could be re-
moved from office.
Mr. JAVITS. Mr. President, the Sen-
ator, however, affirms to us that Congress
has full latitude to pass the necessary
enabling legislation under the authority
of what is meant by "such other body as
Congress may by law provide."
Mr. BAYH. _ The Senator is correct.
Mr. JAVITS. Congress has the right
to provide for the exclusivity of that
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 1 p Rd For Release 2003/10/ fAb$" 4 M9b-nAt3 June 30, 1965
as the way in which the body shall ex?? elso the authority that the amendment a lawyer but to me it is not so ambiguous
ereise that authority,, and other perti woi ad give, the courts would hold that as to`be unclear. It is not the optimum
such a body, its continuance, its way of That is my opinion as a lawyer, and i
meeting, the rules of the procedure, and ha"%e submitted my reasons to the Sen-
the way in which it shall exercise its atc
'tilt'. BAYB.,,MThe Senator is correct. ably, and whether he is a judge, a cit-
11
,Mr. CrOAE. r. President, what was izen, a Senator, or a practicing attorney,
tinder this amendment, would have full ? quf scion into the courts.
aAtXiority to enacta Iaw, not only creat "he time to be explicit is when we
ing"tins; body, but also giving it exclu- write an amendment into the Constitu-
fiattieular amendment, and determining tnE,t i am unprepared to see this amend-
itsprocedure, how it shall be formed, and meat approved in this uncertain way,
,
iirelit' epncerning what tiie'law which ' I am satisfied that this is what the raised by the Senator from New York
oleatesthisbody can cover. proposal would do. I am speaking Only and the Senator from Minnesota and
'r"' J,XVI`f'S Ng "1 should say that to which the Senator refers. I am not
by the express terms ofthe amend- sung that comportswith the rules of
Tennessee or the Senator from Kentucky
or other Senators might. have sought but
I feel that I could vote for -it in good ?
conscience.
I agree with what the Senator has
said. I do not see any earth-shaking
necessity for not having a delay of a few
days to look it over; but if I had to vote
this afternoon, I would feel in good
conscience that I could vote "yea."
Mr. GORE. Mr. President, if the Sen-
ator will yield, is there any necessity to
vote this afternoon?
Mr. JAVITS. That has not been de-
termined. But, as I have said, if I had
to, I would vote for it.
Mr. GORE. The Senator from New
York has raised a serious question. The
Senator from Minnesota has raised a
serious question. The Senator from
Kentucky and the Senator from Ten-
or body as Congress may by law pio ldr JAVITS. I should welcome the to me we could give this matter a little
vt e" Senators researching the matter. I more consideration than I admit I have
believe tha the words 'by law pro- ha ie no quarrel whatever with the de- given it Perhaps I have been derelict
vl e" Is'* hat the Senator in charge of sir of the Senator to examine into the in my duty in not studying it more be-
the bill is implementing now in his state- question carefully. fore now but
as I. listened to questions
?`'Mr. '. I am not as learned pas ;C agree wholeheartedly, with the iiosn- pate the debate and throw this year and
fhe 9istinkuished Senator, but I believe ticn of the Senator from New York, and a half's work in the ashcan, because we
to ,fhis,;with great humility-and my ex^ usivity, to which the Senator lids scintilla of controversy, with very spe-
inion. a lawyer: re; erred. cific wording, we might as well termi
ip. JAVITS. Mr. President, I can ce;-tain if Congress were to create an- exist-if we ever intend to get a measure
on only give the Senator my view-and I other body, such 'a body would have the with respect to which there will not be a
r