PRESIDENTIAL AND VICE-PRESI-DENTIAL SUCCESSION - PRESIDENTIAL DISABILITY

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP67B00446R000500170020-7
• Release Decision: RIFPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 30
• Document Creation Date: December 15, 2016
• Document Release Date: October 9, 2003
• Sequence Number: 20
• Publication Date: February 19, 1965
• Content Type: OPEN

R~ip~-g
lAoiroved For Release 20031W'j~S064B4~A~05U~077DD20-7 3149
I ask unanimous consent that the The Senate resumed the consideration I have never known a person who had
Chicago's American editorial of Febru- of the joint resolution (S. J. Res. 1) pro- a better attitude or a more dedicated
art 10 be printed in the RECORD. posing an amendment to the Constitu- attention to duty. Mr. BeLieu has al-
There being no objection, the editorial tion of the United States relating to suc- ready proved himself to be a capable ad-
was ordered to be printed in the RECORD, cession to the Presidency and Vice-Presi- ministrator as Assistant Secretary of the
as follows: dency and to cases where the President Navy. I feel certain that his work will
[From the Chicago (Ill.) American, Feb. 10, is unable to discharge the powers and continue in the same fine order of out-
. 49661 duties of his office. standing accomplishment.
AN ArrrmGLTNESS PROGRAM Mr. MANSFIELD. Mr. President, I Mr. BeLieu served in the Army for
President Johnson's special message to suggest the absence of a quorum. more than 10 years and was promoted
Congress on cons?rvation was all urgent ap- The VICE PRESIDENT. The clerk on the battlefield. I am proud to see
peal for action, as it should have been. will call the roll. in the civilian branch of the Govern-
The President's solemn, inflated style is not The Chief Clerk proceeded to call the ment the appointment of a military man
the most effective, and we wish he could get roll. of his background and splendid dedica-
along without such phrases as "indifferent Mr. DIRKSEN. Mr. President, I move tion. I hope there will be more such
alike to the judgment of history and the that the order for the quorum call be appointments.
command of principle." Still, he was not rescinded. Mr. SALTONSTALL. Mr. President,
exaggerating at all about the need for some The motion was agreed to. will the Senator from Mississippi yield?
strong antipollution and antiugliness legis-
lation, and we hope Congress ress gives his pro- Mr. MANSFIELD. Mr. President, I Mr. STENNIS. I yield.
gram a high priority. suggest the absence of a quorum. Mr. SALTONSTALL. From this side
In his message, Johnson himself gave The VICE PRESIDENT. The clerk of the aisle, I wish to endorse the state-
encouragingly high priority to the Indiana will call the roll. ment of the Senator from Mississippi.
dunes, and the need for saving what's left The Chief Clerk proceeded to call the Mr. BeLieu was a member of the staff of
of them by designating 11,000 acres as the roll. the Committee on Armed Services. He
Indiana Dunes National Lakeshore. The Mr. MANSFIELD. Mr. President, I was appointed to that particular position
need was promptly demonstrated by repre-
sentatives Inland Steel who set up s ask unanimous consent that the order by the present President of the United
howl
Nowt of protest against losing 830 acres of for the quorum call be rescinded. States. He gave us excellent assistance
Inland's propertyto the public. William A. The VICE PRESIDENT. Without ob- when he was an important adviser to our
Blake, an Inland official, complained before jection, it is so ordered. committee, and since then he has acted
a Senate subcommittee that Inland's terri. most cooperatively and understandingly
tory adjoining the perk area would be turned with the members of the Committee on
into a Coney Island. EXECUTIVE SESSION Armed Services on questions that con-
Obviously, the fight to save some of this Mr. MANSFIELD. Mr. President, I cerned the Navy.
uniquely beautiful area for public enjoy- ask unanimous consent that the Senate He has now been promoted. I am cer-
mUufla a not won yet. proceed to the consideration of executive tainly happy to endorse his nomination,
ent is "compromise"
other con- year,
- Illinois s senator business to consider the nominations on as the Senator from Mississippi has just
PAM m. DOUGLAS an and at last
servationists salvaged the lakeshore area by the Executive Calendar, beginning with done.
giving up 4,677 acres to two other steel coin- the Department of Defense. Mr. DIRKSEN. Mr. President, will
panies, Bethlehem and National. The com- The VICE PRESIDENT. Is there ob- the Senator yield?
panies wanted the property primarily to jection? Mr. STENNIS. I yield.
build a port facility at Burns Ditch, in Por- There being no objection, the Senate Mr. DIRKSEN. I concur fully in the
on County, and I hong pthe eicia State's s ,on. battled proceeded to the consideration of execu- observations made today. Ken BeLieu
on their behalf aeT'though th ico tive business. served with distinction on the Military
Gary were at stake.
A Preparedness Subcommittee, when he
amount that the to any- was closely associated with the then dis-
Burns s Ditch ch it port it will very ever doubtful
thing but a gift from the taxpayers for the EXECUTIVE MESSAGES REFERRED tinguished majority leader of this body,
exclusive benefit of the steel companies. The VICE PRESIDENT laid before the who is now the President of the United
There is no evidence that other industries Senate messages from the President of States.
or shippers will get any good from it, or even the United States submitting sundry I can think of no one who performed
that public terminal facilities will ever be nominations, which were referred to the his duties more diligently.. Ican think
oppo da the. Bu utorne he Di chtch d, harbor which because it of no one who brought to his duties a
opposed no cc appropriate nin tl0 mmns this committee.
day received, higher patriotic fervor than Ken BeLieu.
had no access e the site, is battling the (Fe g e
Conservation lon measure for its own reasons. see the end nd of of Senate proceedings) Nearly every Member of the Senate knew
All this should show what kind of a fight The VICE PRESIDENT. If there be him quite well.
will be called for if this country is g6ing no reports of committees, the clerk will It is a high compliment to him that
to save its natural beauties from systematic state the first nomination, beginning he should be advanced; he richly de-
destruction. As Johnson made`clepri. there with the Department. of Defense, serves it. I fully concur in the action of
PRESIDENTIAL AND CE`'flESI-
DENTIAL SUCCESSI N - p ESI-
DENTIAL DISABILITY
Mr. MANSFIELD. Mr. President, I
ask unanimous consent that the unfin-
Ished business be laid down and made
the pending business, and that the morn-
ing hour be concluded.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Without ob
jection, the Chair lays before the Senate
the unfinished business.
The CHIEF CLERK. A joint resolution
(S.J. Res. 1) proposing an amendment
to the Constitution of the United States
relating to succession to the Presidency
and Vice-Presidency and to cases where
thq President is unable to discharge the
po*erg and duties of his office.
No. 93-5
appointment.
Mr. STENNIS.
of Kenneth E. BeLieu, of Oregon, to be Mr. AIKEN. Mr. President, will the
Under Secretary of the Navy. Senator yield?
Mr. STENNIS. Mr. President, I shall Mr. STENNIS. I yield.
detain the Senate only a few minutes. Mr. AIKEN. Mr. President, I can
I wish to express myself briefly with add nothing to what has been said about
reference to the confirmation of this fine Ken BeLieu personally. I commend the
appointment and to commend the Presi- president for appointing him to the posi-
dent for selecting a man of the back- tion of Under Secretary of the Navy. It
ground and experience that Mr. BeLieu is a good appointment.
has for a civilian position in the Depart- Mr. STENNIS. I thank the Senator.
ment of Defense. This young man has Mr. MANSFIELD. Mr. President, will
had fine experience both on the field of the Senator yield?
battle and in the battle of operating the. STENNIS. I yield.
Government. He has been connected Mr. MANSFIELD. Mr. President,
with some of us in our duties in the
Committee on Armed Services, where he I join my colleagues in what they have
-did work of the highest order, said about the appointment by the Pres-
 ApOU d For Release 200311
0/2f M F W 44%M0 0176btb?+AE
ounce of under Secretary of the Navy. nr,ince, the Battle of the Bulge, and Into Ger-
Mr. BeLieu is an excellent American, miay and Czechoslovakia. He was awarded
He has proved his mettle as the distin- tho Silver Star, Legion of Merit, Bronze Star,
Purple Heart, and Croix de Guerre for gal-
guished Senator from Mississippi has iantry, in action. He was discharged from
Said, on the field of battle and in the
th,r Army in 1945 with the rank of lieutenant
Senate committees as well as in the De- co: onel.
partment which he has, served so effec- nhortly after returning to civic life, he was
tively over the past several years, off red a commission in the Regular Army,
This is one of the best appointments which he accepted in July 1946. He was
that could be made. I am delighted, and orckred to Washington, D.C., where he
am.certain that the nomination will be served in various assignments in Depart-
Confirmed unanimously by the Senate. meat of the Army headquarters. In July
Mr. STENNIS. I thank the Sen- Korea Mr. BeLieu volunteered for act
Korea and, a in While there e lost e lost his left leg n bea In
leg s
atOT. This gentleman was originally low the knee in November of 1950 and was
brought to the Committee on Armed retarned to' the United States. While in
Services by the Senator from Georgia Korea, Mr. BeLieu was decorated by both the
[Mr. RUSSELLI, and was taken away from United States and Korean Governments.
us to the Space Committee by the pres- From the spring of 1951 until his retirement
ant President of the United States. In October of 1955, he served as executive
Mr. JACKSON. Mr. President, I I o In to two Secretaries of the Army.
n November 1955, Mr. BeLieu became a
Wish t
i
t
lf
0 assoc
a
e myse
with the re- professional staff member of the Senate
marks of my colleagues regarding the Armed Services Committee. In January 1959,
nomination of Mr. Kenneth E. BeLieu to be assumed two principal responsibilities.
be Under Secretary of the Navy. His "Fir it, he became staff director of the Sen-
nomination was reported unanimously ate Committee on Aeronautical and Space
by the Committee on Armed Services. Sciences-the committee which has jurisdie-
In my judgment he has, brought to the tion to survey and review all aeronautical
an(
Us
ti
iti
Navy and to the Department of Defense
the rich experience of brae professional
soldier and professional staff member of
the two Senate committees. He served
In the U.S. Army with great distinction
from 1940 to 1955.
He was a professional staff member of
the Committee on Armed Services.
Subsequently, he served as staff direc-
tor of the Senate Preparedness Sub-
committee of the Committee on Armed
Services. He also served as staff direc-
tor of the Aeronautical and Space
Sciences Committee. The latter two
committees were chaired by the then
Senator Lyndon Johnson,
I have had the privilege of working
with Mr. BeLieu during the time that he
served with such great distinction on
the staffs of the committees I have men-
tioned.
I have also observed his work over the
past 4 years as Assistant Secretary of
the Navy.
Mr. BeLieu is a man of great integrity,
a man who has done outstanding work
in all the assignments he has undertaken
for his Government.
Mr. President, I ask unanimous con-
sent to have a biographical sketch of
Mr. BeLieu printed at this point in the
RECORD.
There being no objection, the bio-
graphical sketch was ordered to be
printed in the RECORD, as follows:
KENNETH E. BELIEU, ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF
THE NAVY (INSTALLATIONS AND LOrsaacs)
Mr. BeLieu was born in Portland, Oreg.,
on February 10, 1914. He is the son of Ina
Jean BeLieu and the late Perry G. BeLieu
of Oregon. He is married to the former
Margaret Katherine Waldhoff of Anoka,
Minn., and has two sons, Kenneth E., Jr.,
and Christopher Michael,
He attended Roosevelt High School (class
of 1933) in Portland, Oreg., the University
of Oregon
Eugene
Ores (class of 1937)
d
,
,
,an
well and have worked closely with him, the Secretary's desk in the Army, Navy,
the Harvard Business School (advanced
management program, 1955),, He Ices without exception been courteous, and Marine Corps.
After 3 years in business in Portland, in responsive and, whenever possible, help- Mr. MANSFIELD. Mr. President, I
1940 Mr. BeLieu volunteered for active duty ful to me when I have come to him with a ask unanimous consent that these nomi-
with the U.S. Army, and was commissioned problem. nations be considered en bloc.
a second lieutenant of infantry. His world I know that my colleagues have re- The VICE PRESIDENT. Without ob-
War H service carried him from the Nor- ceiv,ed the same high quality of service jection, the nominations will be con-
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. . space ac
v
es and analyze all legis-
lation dealing with the National Aeronautics
anc. Space Administration. Second, Mr.
Beldeu became staff director of the Prepared-
nesi Investigating Subcommittee of the
Senate Committee on Armed Forces. This
committed has broad authority to review,
investigate, and make recommendations on
all aspects of the Nation's military policies,
pro gams, and operations. The Senate Com-
mittee on Aeronautical and Space Sciences
and the Preparedness Investigating Subcom-
mittee of the Senate Committee on Armed
For:ee were chaired by the then Senator
Lyr don B. Johnson.
Ivr. BeLSen was confirmed by the U.S.
Senate on February 8, 1961, and sworn In as
Asa stant Secretary of the Navy for Installa-
tior a and Logistics on February 7, 1981.
February 19
from Kerl, especially during the last 4
years when he has carried out with dis-
tinction the difficult duties of Assistant
Secretary of the Navy for Installations
and Logiistics.
President Johnson has chosen well, I
believe, and with his nomination of Ken-
neth BeLieu he has continued his excel-
lent policy of promoting deserving people
up through the ranks.
I can think of no better experience and
background for this position of Navy
Under Secretary than Ken BeLieu's, as a
businessman, Army ofllcer, staff man in
the Congress and Assistant Secretary of
the Department in which he will con-
tinue to serve.
I urge prompt and unanimous ap-
proval of his nomination by the Senate.
The VICE PRESIDENT. The question
is, Will the Senate advise and consent to
this nomination?
The nomination was confirmed.
The legislative clerk read the nomina-
tion of Greeme C. Bannerman, of the
District of Columbia, to be an Assistant
Secretary of the Navy.
The VICE PRES:[DENT. Without ob-
jection, the nomination is confirmed,
U.S. AIR FORCE
The legislative clerk proceeded to read
sundry nominations in the Air Force.
Mr. MANSFIELD. Mr. President, I
ask unanimous consent that these nomi-
nations be considered en. bloc.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Without ob-
jection, the nominations in the Air Force
will be considered en bloc; and, without
objection, they are Confirmed.
Mr. JACKSON. Mr. President, Mr. The legislative clerk proceeded to read
BeLieu understands the duties and re- sundry nominations in the U.S. Navy.
sponsibilities of the Congress and the Mr. MANSFIELD, Mr. President, I
exeltive branch of the Government in ask unanimous consent that these nomi-
the field of national security. nations be considered en bloc.
I feel that the Navy and the Depart- The VICE PRESIDENT. Without ob-
me t of Defense and the country as a jection, the nominations in the Navy will
whole will be honored by his service as be considered en bloc; and, without ob-
Under Secretary of the Navy. jection, they are confirmed.
Mir. DODD. Mr. President, the career ?
Of Kenneth E. BeLieu is one of steady U.S. :MARINE CORPS
pro cress upward, to successive positions
of increased demands and responsi- The legislative clerk proceeded to read
bili res. sundry nominations: in the Marine Corps.
Senate confirmation of Ken BeLieu to- Mr. MANSFIELD. Mr. President, I
day, to be Under Secretary of the Navy, ask unanimous consent that these nomi-
will be further recognition by us of the nations be considered en bloc.
fact that he consistently does an out- The VICE PRESIDENT. Without ob-
standing job, regardless of where he may jection, the nominations will be consid-
be called upon to serve. ered en bloc; and, without objection,
And I am sure that Ken BeLieu will they are confirmed,
teeth even higher positions within the
Federal Government in the future. NOMINATIONS PLACED ON THE
In January 1959, my first month in the SECRE'CARYS DESK-IN THE
diredencto,etor of Ken the e Senate e Space e Committee appointed mittee e staff ARMY, IN THE NAVY, AND MA-
a ccmmittee to which I was assigned at RINE CORPS
the same time. - The legislative clerk proceeded to read
 ed For Release 2003/10/ . P b4$41 m1 MWE
terms rather, than general, in order to
leave future actions to future Congresses
to supplement it.
Mr. FONG, The Senator is correct.
We have been working on these problems
for a long time, but have not been able
to come up with a substantively sound
proposal. Now, we have such a proposal
in Senate Joint Resolution 1, which is
specific in its terms, in order to leave no
doubt as to the devolution and orderly
transition of power, and the constitu-
tional legitimacy of our Government. I
believe that the various amendments
which have been proposed to give the
Congress statutory power to act on these
Problems will Qnly lead us back to where,
we started.
The resolution of these problems are
much too critical to leave for future
statutory action, and, like the problem
of presidential succession, be the subject
of political decision.
S believe that we should pass Senate
Joint Resolution 1 now, because it is
statesmanlike and the very best possible
solution to critical problems and will
specifically deal with the problem as we
wish it to be dealt with.
Mr. SALTONSTALL. The Senator
would deal with the problem by a con-
stitutional amendment rather than by
statute.
Mr. FONG. The Senator is correct.
That is the consensus of all the experts.
Mr. BAYII. Mr. President-
The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr.
HARRIS in the chair). The Senator from
Indiana.
Mr. BAYH. Mr. President, I compli-
ment the Senator from Hawaii [Mr.
FONG] on his well-defined statement, in
which he covered all the principal points,
and in which he stressed the need for the
Senate to join behind the consensus of
the experts, feeling that we have the best
proposal before the Senate now, and that
if we spend more time searching for that
which is perfect it will become a search
for the impossible. We are solving the
two key problems which hays confronted
us-namely, vice-presidential vacancies
and the disability of a President; and, if
we solve these two, problems, we can solve
the other problems at a later date.
I compliment the Senator and thank
him for the cooperation he has given the
subcommittee, as well as for the personal
sacrifice he made to be in the Chamber
this afternoon to participate in this
debate.
Mr. FONG. I thank the Senator from
Indiana. He has been working hard on
this measure. It is through his dedica-
tion that the joint resolution is now be-
fore the Senate. This has not been an
easy resolution to arrive at. The Senator
from Indiana and the other members of
the committee have worked very hard on
it. They have. given It deep thought. We
Jett, and this is the best possible solu- This measure, of which I am honored
tigi? that we, can suggest. I, beligye that to be a cosponsor, provides a workable
it is a completely workable and practical means of assuring continuity of presi-
solution to. the two key problems. dential leadership. It recognizes the
Mr. SCOTT. Mr. President, will the very distinct nature of the two exigen-
Senator from Hawaii yield? ties--death and inability-under which
No. 33-9,
support of Senate Joint Resolution 1,
but first, I commend the distinguished
Senator from Hawaii for the fine pre-
sentation he has made, and for the
scholarship which is evident in his ex-
position.
Let me say, for my part, that I shall
support the proposed Dirksen substitute
for Senate Joint Resolution ,I because I
believe it to be simpler, wiser, and more
farsighted on a long-range basis to
leave to Congress the discretion to
prescribe, by statute, procedures for the
transfer of the President's powers and
duties in the case of presidential in-
ability.
It occurs to me that one illustration as
to why Senate Joint I should leave this
discretion to Congress is'that there is no
provision in Senate Joint Resolution 1,
as reported to the Senate, that deals with
the inability of a Vice President to per-
form his duties. If a Vice President dies
or resigns, there Is a provision for filling
the vacancy, Let us suppose, however,
that the Vice President suffers from an
inability. It would be rather awkward,
it seems to me, to overburden the Con-
stitution with procedural details, better
and more flexibility prescribed by statute,
in an effort to foresee and imagine every
possible eventuality and to meet every
conceivable contingency.
Yet, with the Increased Importance of
the office of Vice President, the con-
tingency of the Vice President's in-
ability becomes a significant considera-
tion and Congress could take care of It
by law, as it would be Permitted to do
under the broader language of the Dirk-
sen amendment.
I am an original cosponsor of Senate
Joint Resolution 1, but subsequent study
of the Judiciary Committee's hearings
and report, particularly the views ex-
pressed therein by my distinguished
minority leader, has persuaded me to
accept the Dirksen amendment.
However, If the Dirksen amendment
should not be adopted, I revert, then, to
my desire to see a workable proposal
adopted, one which will be at least as
wisely considered and Prepared as Senate
Joint Resolution 1, sponsored by the dis-
tinguished Senator from Indiana [Mr.
BAYHI. I would, then, as a cosponsor,
support Senate Joint Resolution 1.
Mr. President, the tragedy which this
Nation witnessed only 15 months ago
brought most forcefully to our attention
once. again the striking absence in the
Constitution of appropriate provision
for continuity of presidential leader-
ship. In this era of recurring crises at
home and abroad, it is imperative that
at no time should there be any doubt
in anyone's mind as to who is exercis-
Ing the powers and duties of the Presi-
dency. That is the central issue we are
dealing with today in Senate Joint
the Nation may lose the leadership of
its President, and it provides suitable
solutions for each of these peculiarly
different situations.
The uncertainty concerning the legiti-
macy of our traditional method of pro-
viding for presidential succession, which
is prompted by the existing vague con-
stitutional language, would be removed.
The addition of language providing for
the filling of vacancies in the office of
the Vice President, which occur upon
the death, resignation, or removal of the
President, would assure the Nation that
it will always have a Vice President
ready and able to assume the office of
President or exercise the powers and
dirties of that office should the occasion
arise.
Provision of continuity of presidential
leadership is an urgent need that must
be met now. There is widespread sup-
port for Senate Joint Resolution 1, and
the climate for early ratification of this
measure by the States seems to be
favorable. Let us therefore promptly
approve it.
. Before closing, Mr. President, let me
heartily commend the junior Senator
from Indiana for his thorough study and
diligent efforts in drafting Senate Joint
Resolution 1, and for bringing it to the
floor of the Senate. And I thank the
Senator from Hawaii for giving me this
opportunity to express my views.
Mr. FONG. I thank the Senator for
his compliments. In answer to his ques-
tions, let me say that the Dirksen amend-
ment would leave us almost in the same
position as that from which we started.
Many questions will still remain unan-
swered. If something should happen to
the Vice President, we would not have
the answer to that problem. It does not
militate against Senate Joint Resolution
1. At present, no one succeeds to the
position of Vice President if a Vice Presi-
dent succeeds to the office of President.
I believe that if we take one step at a
time, we shall accomplish what we axe
trying to accomplish. I believe that the
present resolution is workable and
practical,
THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS OF
ALL AMERICANS
Mr. EASTLAND. Mr. President, in
1954, soon after the decision in Brown
against Topeka, I made the statement
that it was impossible to fulfill the im-
plications of Brown against Topeka with-
out destroying the constitutional rights
of all other American citizens and all
other rights embodied in the Constitu-
tion and guaranteed to the people.
Acting under the contemporary and
current insanity in the country relating
to so-called civil rights, various bureaus
are issuing edicts and decrees without
any justification in law which deprive
the American people of their basic rights.
The Department of Defense under Sec-
retary McNamara, together with certain
underlings, has probably been the most
zealous of these department heads in
Issuing decrees irrespective of the rights
of the American citizens. I wish to read
to the Senate a letter which I have just
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 received from Hon. Perry S. Ransom, Jr.,
of Ocean Springs, Miss., to show to the
Senate hbw far these Government bu-
reaus have gone in surrendering basic
rights to the current insanity of the
PERRY S. RANSOM, JR.,
CONSULTING ENGINEER,
Ocean Springs, Miss., February 16, 1965.
Senator JAMES O. EASTLAND,
U.S. Senate,
Washington, D.C.
DEAR SIR: Realizing full well the large vol-
ume of mail that you recelva daily from the
people you represent and the futility of in-
dividual correspondence, I nevertheless feel
compelled to write. Under'our system of
democratic government we claim the right
of the individual citizen to protest when we
feel the Federal Government exceeds the lim-
itations set forth by our Constitution.
For my explicit protest the following facts
are herewith submitted:
The. Jackson County Baptist Association
1s currently conducting in numerous Baptist
Churches a school of missions, whereby mis-
sionaries come to our churches and relate
to us the work that is being done for the
Lord on local and foreign fields. Through
this mission emphasis our Christian people
are made aware of just what' our denomina-
tion is doing to fulfill our Lord's great com-
mission to "go and teach unto all nations,"
One of our scheduled missionary speakers
was to be a Sergeant Fuller (first name, serial
number, and specific assignment unknown
to me), who is currently stationed at Keesler
AFB in Biloxi, Miss. Our association has
now been informed that said Sergeant Fuller
has received orders from his superiors in the
Air Force that he is not tp speak in our
church as the audience is segregated. How
can the first amendment which guarantees
the complete separation of church and state
be ignored by the military in prohibiting
this man from exercising his religious be-
liefs by speaking to a local Baptist Church
group because there are no Negroes in the
audience. To the best of my knowledge the
Baptist Negroes of Ocean Springs are com-
pletely satisfied and happy in their- own
church and have no desire, to attend our
church. Can It be that the Government will
attempt to compel the Negroes to integrate
our churches, or can not the Great Society
leave a soul's salvation to the individual and
to the Lord?
To reiterate, I, as an individual citizen
strongly protest the actions of the military
at Kessler AFB to prevent any American
citizen from exercising his religious beliefs
just because he happens to be in the Air
Force.
Any actions that you may be able to make
to rectify this situation are endorsed and
encouraged.
Yours very truly,
PERRY S. RANSOM, Jr.,
One American Citizen.
In other words, a sergeant in the U.S.
Air Force, who happens to be a religious
person, was invited to address on a
religious subject other Americans who
belonged to his religious sect. Because
the meeting of this sect was not inte-
grated, Sergeant Fuller of the U.S. Air
Force was deprived of his right of free
speech. The religious association was
deprived of their religious liberty. Free-
dom of assembly was likewise violated.
Mr. President, I bring this to the at-
tention of the Congress in order that the
Congress may know just how far the
insanity of the country has progressed
and the insanity of the bureaus which
are administering the laws under the
Constitution of the United States.
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0 ?$~gQp~500g~?p q~7 February 19
Mr. President, this brings me to ask the
Secretary of 'Defense one question: If
Sergeant Fuller can be prohibited from
attending a Baptist church in Ocean
Sprirgs, Miss., to make a few remarks,
then can the Secretary of Defense pro-
hibit Sergeant F,\iller from attending
that Baptist church in Ocean Springs?
I do not expect that Sergeant Fuller's
trout les or the troubles of the Baptist
Church at Ocean Springs, Miss., will at-
tract the wrath of either the National
Conn bit of Churches or the Civil Liberties
Unio I, but I do think the country might
be interested in the subject matter if
they are apprised of it.
PRE'31DENTIAL AND VICE-PRESI-
DINTIAL SUCCESSION-PRESI-
DITQT'IAL DISABILITY
The Senate resumed the consideration
of the joint resolution (S.J. Res. 1) pro-
posir,g an amendment to the Constitution
of tl.e United States relating to succes-
sion to the Presidency and Vice-Presi-
dencr and to cases where the President
is unable to discharge the powers and
duties of his office.
UNANIMOUS-CONSENT AGREEMENT
Mr. MANSFIELD. Mr. President, I am
about to propound a unanimous-consent
requ st.
I ask unanimous consent that 1 hour
for debate be allowed on the Dirksen
substitute, to be equally divided between
the sponsors of the substitute and the
Senator in charge of the joint resolution
on tie floor of the Senate, the Senator
from Indiana [Mr. BAYH]; that an hour
for debate be allowed on each amend-
Mr. DII%]KSEN. Mr. President, I yield
5 minutes to the Senator from Kansas.
Mr. CARLSON. Mr. President, in my
opinion, one of the most important pieces
of legislation to be considered by this
session of Congress is the pending joint
resolution regarding presidential succes-
sion and presidential disability.
I commend the distinguished Senator
from Indiana [Mr. BAYHI and the mem-
bers of the subcommittee of the Judi-
ciary Committee and the Judiciary Com-
mittee for having devoted so much time
to the hearings and the preparation of
the joint resolution.
For the best part of two centuries, the
Congress of the United States has not
dealt effectively with the dual problems
of vice-presidential vacancies and pres-
idential disabilities. Sixteen times, over
a period in excess of :37 years, this Nation
has been without a Vim President. Pres-
'ident Garfield lay for 80 days unable to
perform the powers and duties of his
office-President Wilson was disabled for
16 months-President Eisenhower had
three serious disabilities. Fortunately,
the country was not confronted by an
international crisis during any of these
periods. We must not take for granted
that history will continue to treat us so
kindly.
Over the years, Congress has studied
these dual problems at great length. The
main reasons for the lack. of solution are
the inability to arrive at a consensus and
the unwillingness of individual Members
of Congress to amend their own per-
sonal views in order to arrive at a work-
able plan which could receive two-thirds
vote in each House of Congress. A great
deal of effort has gone into the consen-
men; the time to be divided between the sus embodied in Senate Joint Resolution
sponsors of the amendment and the Sen- 1-the American Bar Association, the
ator from Indiana [Mr. Bases] ; and that Committee on Economic Development,
2 hours for debate be allowed on the joint legal scholars, constitutional lawyers and
resolution, to be equally divided.
Tire PRESIDING OFFICER. Is there
objection? The Chair hears none, and
it is so ordered.
The unanimous-consent agreement,
subs-fluently reduced to writing, is as
follows:
UNANIMOUS-CONSENT AGREEMENT
Ordered, That the further consideration of
the joint resolution (S.J. Res. 1), proposing
an amendment to the Constitution of the
United States relating to succession to the
members of the executive and legislative
branches of the Government have worked
together to develop a workable solution.
The main problem confronting Con-
gress is writing a constitutional provi-
sion which would assure no break in the
exercise of the presidential power. More
than that, no doubt should be permitted
to arise as to who holds the office.
In addition to these two requirements,
the procedure for transferring of power
should be fast, efficient, and easily under-
Presidency and Vice-Presidency and to cases stood.
were the President is unable to discharge the The Senate Judiciary Committee has
powers and duties of his office, debate on any spent days. taking testimony of able and
amen d_ment, motion, or appeal, except a me-
tion to lay on the table, shall be limited to qualified :individuals, discussing every 1 hour, to be equally divided and controlled phase of this subject.
by tie mover of any such amendment or From the beginning of our Nation, we
motion and the Senator from Indiana [Mr. have been without a Vice President in
BAYEII : Provided, That in the event the Sen- excess of 20 percent of the time.
ator from Indiana is in favor of any such The preponderance of testimony has
amerdmeat or motion, the time in opposi- declared that these problems must be
tion thereto shall be controlled by the ml- solved by constitutional amendment.
nority leader or some Senator designated by
him. They are of sufficient importance to our
Ordered further, That on the question of country to be embedded in the bedrock
the f nal passage of the said joint resolution, law of the land-the Constitution. Some
dabs a shall be limited to 2 hours, to be of those supporting this contention have
equaly divided and controlled, respectively, been President Lyndon Johnson, Vice
by the majority and minority leaders: Pro- President HUBERT HUM:PHREY, former
vided, That the said leaders, or either of President Dwight Eisenhower, Attorney
them, may, from the time fonder their con-
trol on the passage of the said joint resolu-
tion, allot additional time to any Senator Attorney General Herbert Brownell, for-
during the consideration of any amendment, mer Attorney General William Rogers,
motion, or appeal. the American Bar Association's House
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 - i
Approved For Release 2003/10/2~Qa~-64#kMU'f76TE
Mr. ERVIN. I ask the Senatpr from of economy or anything else, not to be
Mississippi If one vital distinction be- prepared with both missiles and long-
tween a missile and a long-range bomber range bombers?
is not that when the missile is once fired, Mr. STENNIS. We cannot afford to
it is gone forever. do otherwise.
Mr. STENNIS. The Senator is correct. Mr. ERVIN. There is no advantage
Mr. ERVIN. A long-range bomber can in having Uncle Sam become the richest
- carry a load of bombs and, if it is not man in the graveyard by virtue of having
shot down, it can come back and carry saved some money that should have been
another load.
Mr. STENNIS. The Senator is correct.
It is ready for use again. It has that
human brain in it, too.
Mr. ERVIN. Mr. President, I ask the
Senator if a normal missile would be
equipped to carry a nuclear warhead.
Mr, STENNIS. The Senator is correct.
Mr. ERVIN. On the contrary, a long-
range bomber can carry a load of con-
ventional or nuclear bombs, depending
upon which is advisable in the particular
movement that is being made.
Mr. STENNIS. The Senator is cor-
rect. All it requires is changing the bomb
racks.
Mr. ERVIN. They are more flexible.
Mr. STENNIS. The Senator is cor-
rect. Their great virtue is their flexi-
bility.
Mr. ERVIN. Mr. President, I ask the
Senator from Mississippi if most of the
missiles are not stationary, and there-
fore subject to hostile action.
,Mr. STENNIS. The Senator Is cor-
rect. They are sitting targets. The
question is, How well can we protect
them? We think we have them pro-
tected as well as man can protect them.
But there is a question of whether that is
sufficient protection.
Mr. ERVIN. Is it not true that long-
range bombers could be placed in motion
In the event of a hostile attack, and
therefore they are far less vulnerable to
attack than a missile?
Mr STENNIS The Senator is cor
spent for long-range bombers.
Mr. STENNIS. The Senator has ex-
pressed it very well, as usual.
I shall review quite briefly the figures I
cited a moment ago-$3 million is pro-
vided in the 1966 budget for system
studies, $24 million is provided for pro-
pulsion, and $12 million for avionics.
But those in the Air Force who know tell
me that they do not understand that
this Is in any way earmarked for a new
bomber system or that such a system has
been approved by the Secretary of De-
fense.
I hope that in our bearings, and in the
process of considering the budget, we can
get a promise to earmark an adequate
amount for a new manned bomber sys-
tem. Then we can put in such addi-
tional amounts as we find necessary for
other weapons and other airplanes. Cer-
tainly, some of the technology applicable
to an advanced manned bomber-such as
propulsion and avionics-is also appli-
cable to other aircraft. But we ought to
make a start now on a bomber system.
As I have said, I think this matter
ought to be brought up early this year
and discussed fully. I hope Mr. Mc-
Namara will be able to assure us in the
hearings that he will give a green light
to a new bomber system and that ade-
quate funds will be made avftilable for
rect. RESIDENTIAL D V14E-PRESI-
Mr. ERVIN. I know that the Senator DENTIAL MD
Mississippi, because of his service DENTIAL DISABILITY
on the Armed Services Committee, be- The Senate resumed the consideration
lieves, as I do, that we need an adequate of the joint resolution (S.J. Res. 1) pro-
number of both missiles and long-range posing an amendment to the Constitu-
bombers. tion of the United States relating to suc-
Mr. STENNIS. That Is the mixed con- cession to the Presidency and Vice-Prest-
cept that we have been talking about. deny and to cases where the President
We do not want to detract from our mis- is unable to discharge the powers and
sales. But there Is always some uncer- duties of his office.
tainty about being able to protect them. Mr. BAYH. Mr. President, -I wish to
There is some uncertainty as to the.ex- yield to the distinguished Senator from
tent to which they are vulnerable. To Hawaii [Mr. Foncl.
abandon the concept of a new bomber is Mr. FONG. Mr. President, as a co-
unthinkable to me. sponsor of Senate Joint Resolution 1 and
Mr. ERVIN. Does not the Senator as a member of the Judiciary Subcom-
from Mississippi know, as a member of mittee on Constitutional Amendments, I
the Armed Services Committee, that vir- should like to compliment and highly
tually all the men who have devoted their commend the distinguished junior Sena-
lives to the military service and have tor from Indiana for his dedication, hard
spent their days and nights studying how work, diligence, and constant effort in
this country should be defended, recom- drafting and guiding this critically im-
mend that we should have a program for portant legislation through the sub-
renewing our long-range bombers? committee and the Judiciary Committee.
Mr. STENNIS. The Senator is cor- The Senator from Indiana has cer-
rect. ' I quoted some of the chief ones a tainly done yeoman service in this re-
few moments ago. gard and has given the subject long,
Mr. ERVIN. Does not the Senator deep, and scholarly thought. He has
from Mississippi agree that when we get listened with great patience to the ad-
down to the fact that we cannot foretell vice and counsel of the country's out-
what precise weapons we shall need in standing political scientists and other
these two areas or whether we need them leading experts in this matter. He has
both, it is the height of folly for the sake forged a proposal from these consider-
able resources and has produced an out-
standing document that is a practical
and workable solution to the problems
of presidential disability and vice-presi-
dential vacancies.
The joint resolution before us is
therefore a product of considerable
thought and effort and represents a con-
sensus of many proposals.
Two years ago, the tragic assassina-
tion of President Kennedy pointed up
once again the urgent need to resolve
these two critical gaps In the U.S. Con-
stitution.
First, The Constitution does not say
anything about what should be done
when there is no Vice President. No
one in America today doubts that the
Vice President of the United States to-
day carries very vital functions of our
Government.
He is the President's personal repre-
sentative and emissary; he is a member
of the Cabinet; Chairman of the National
Aeronautics and Space Council; member
of the National Security Council; head
of the President's Committee on Equal
Employment Opportunity; and he takes
part in other top-level discussions which
lead to national policymaking decisions.
The modern trend toward the increas-
ing importance of the Vice-Presidency
began with President Franklin D. Roose-
velt. President Eisenhower furthered
this trend greatly in assigning Vice Pres-
ident Nixon many duties of critical im-
portance, and President Johnson has
made it very clear that he intends to
make it an even more important office.
Ever since Vice President John Tyler
took over the Presidency in 1841, when
President William Henry Harrison died,
this precedent has been confirmed on
seven occasions. Vice Presidents Fill-
more, Andrew Johnson, Arthur, Theo-
dore Roosevelt, Coolidge, Truman, and
Lyndon Johnson all became President
in this manner.
Besides his many duties, the Vice Pres-
ident is the man who is only a heartbeat
away from the world's most powerful of-
flee.
Yet, on 16 different occasions in our
history the Nation has been without a
Vice President.
The security of our Nation demands
that the office of the Vice President
should never be left vacant for long, such
as it was between November 22, 1963, and
January 20, 1965.
Second. The Constitution does not say
anything about what should be done
when the President becomes disabled,
how and who determines his disability,
when the disability starts, when it ends,
who determines his fitness to resume his
office, and who should take over during
the period of disability.
In short, there is no orderly constitu-
tional procedure to decide how the awe-
some and urgent responsibility of the
Presidency should be carried on.
Third. The Constitution also Is un-
clear as to whether the Vice President
would become President, or whether he
becomes only the Acting President, if the
President is unable to carry out the duties
of his office.
These are very closely related prob-
lems, since they involve the devolution
 %g9roved For Release 2003/CWY2C1$ U5 a 1$M05( -7 February 19
and orderly transition of power in times flee; the selection is to be made by the by majority s'ote and the Congress by a
of crisis. P:resldeat, upon confirmation by a ma- two-thirds vote of both Houses resolve
Mr. President, as a member of the Sub- jority vote of both Houses of Congress. these provisions of Senate Joint Reso-
ments, on Constitutional Amend- I believe this is sound. 1 not only achieve the goals Joint I
I have studied very carefully all The 'rice-presidential office, under our lution These
they are I out-
the various proposals submitted by other system of government, is tied very closely lined ned d sonance anoa wi tr, th the but
most valued e also o principles Con-
senators during the 88th Congress and with the Presidency. The extent to sotab wi by our ost. value Fathers e-
s Fo in
in this current session of the 89th Con- which 1 he President takes the Vice Presi- the Constitution.
gress. I have considered the testimony dent it to his confidence or shares with They observe the principle of the seps-
submitted to the subcommittee in pre- him the deliberations leading to execu- ration of powers in our Government.
vious hearings, including those of the tive decisions is largely determined by They effectively o we maintain tv delicate.
distinguished experts who have testified. the President. balance of Powers among the three
I have read the data collected and have Another important reason for allowing balances four Government. Most free
read the research done by the subeom- the President to nominate a Vice Presi- branch of a, to ernme that our im-
mittee's staff. dent h that the close relationship be-
I believe that any measure to resolve tween the President and Vice President tin's sovereignty is preserved in the
these very complex and perplexing prob- will pe. mit the person next in line to be- hands of the people through their
lems must satisfy at least four require- come familiar with the problems he will elected representatives in the National
mints: face should he be called on to assume Legislature.
Several amendments to Senate Joint
First. It must have the highest and the r. SALTONSTALL Resolution I have been proposed which
embodied legal sendmen Io . Mr. President, in substance place back into the hands
most be authoritative
must embodied in an amendment to will r tSATO..? Senator yield? of the Congress many of the problems
Second, Constitution. Mr.:!SONG. Iyield.
second, It must assure a prompt action Mr. PNSTAti. Is It not also we have been discussing.
It is my considered judgment that
when . It to meet national crisis. true that Pt a s Presidential tsucceed nomination
i ae of these amendments will serve only to
Third. It must nfoa rm m to the consti- a Vice President him should ty leave these critical questions unan-
unan-
tuoual . principle must of ovidf powers. aPresin o of one of of the same party swered-and we would not have accom-
F
Fourth. must separation
provide provide o oe safeguarr. ds as the the President?
against usurpation of power. Mr. FONG. Yes. The President must pushed what we intended to accomplish
work closely with the Vice President. He under Senate Joint Resolution 1.
each Senate thes set requirements. ree1 best is a very close confidant of the President. I believe that these amendments
meets I believe
Senate e should be voted down.
each of t Joint Red o f vie1 deals with The dent and he would succeed the Mr. President, this Is the first time
President, and he should uld be of the same since 1956, when a full-scale congression-
-
vach of the problems inability n d
cocstitY and presidential me rather by an political l party. al study of the problems was conducted,
constitutional amendment gatheer than Mr. SALTONSTALL. And, therefore, that wide agreement has been reached
the e Pi esident should d nominate him?
by statute. Mr. FONG. And, therefore, the Presi- on these vastly complex constitutional
Mr, a l-kident, on nowe legal this legal authorities have dent v- problems.
on oth sidse this ey ould h navav should e t th he e him, and rho Con- Last September, a measure similar to
argue wersua su
uestion. pAt Ise s heinterpretation thi his nomination orit vote. to confirm Senate Joint Resolution f was passed by
of the " At Issue Is the " uh rhis eby a majority Sen- the Senate by the overwhelming vote of
of the "necessary and proaus authority ate these Joint Resolution 1 Provides precisely 65 to 0. It was sent to the House, but
of article Congress I, section 8, to lance teDith The bill . Proposes Congress adjourned before any further
ct ptomb- action could be taken.
re pctst the tqu question of legislate wnhd solution to a practical l believe
inspect to the question of vacancy and a,rtical solo what I b- Last January, at the can of the Ameri-
Recen? can Bar Association, a dozen of the Na-
ng shift opinion favoring to have been o a With disability, Senate e Joint problem a s- tion's leading legal authorities meeting
in ashington came up with a consen-
strong nal over the hinGstatutory a con- tion I Il makes clear bict that the when the Pe of presi-
appr ach. amendment
Two past l Attorneys Gen- den- dent disabled, the Vice President sus, which is essentially embodied in the
eral Her Two p Acting President be- provisions of Senate Joint, Resolution 1.
Rogers-and Brownell and ey Gen- disability. Acting provident for the period of This consensus was subsequently en-
--and the present Attorney Gen- isai him It provides that the President dorsed by the ABA house of delegates.
oral Nicholas Katzenbach, the American may himself declare his inability and I understand that Senate Joint Resolu-
Bar Association and many other State that if he does not, the declaration may tion 1 is being cosponsored by a byparti-writ- and local bar associations say a tontine- hen rude Vice of President with of the san group o F 77 Senators.
tional amendment is necessary. t I am most delighted and pleased to co-
The most persuasive argument for an Cabir et. sponsor this proposal with the very dis-
tions is that so many legal ques- The determination of presidential in- tinguished and able junior Senator from
tions have been raised about the author- ability by the Cabinet-along with the Indiana [Senator BAYHI. As one who
ity of Congress to act on these subjects, Vice President-is sound. It is reason- has worked closely with him on this joint
that any statute on these subjects would able to assume that persons the President resolution, I know that lie has worked
be open to criticism and challenge at the selects as Cabinet officers are the Presi- hard to draft and guide it through the
most critical time-when a President dent'; most devoted and loyal supporters Subcommittee on Constitutional Amend-
dies in office; when a President had be- who would naturally wish his continu- ments and the full Judiciary Committee.
come disabled; and when a President ante as President. Mr. President, I highly commend Sen-
sought to recover his office. Th? Vice President and the Cabinet ate Joint Resolution 1 to the Senate as a
We must not gamble with the con- are e a close-working unit, having a daily meritorious measure that should be en-
xional legitimacy of our Nation's relationship with the President. They acted promptly into law.
executive branch. When a President or are in the past position to assess the Mr. SALTONSTALL. Mr. President,
Vice President of the United States as- President's capacity to perform his du- will the Senator from Hawaii yield?
sumes his office, the entire Nation and ties end functions. The PFtF',STDING OFFICER (Mr.
the world must know without doubt that In addition, a majority of the Cabinet In the chair). Does the Sen-
constitutional does so as a matter of right. Only a uses ly are members of the President's MoxroyA from Hawaii yield to the Senator
constitutional amendment can supply pout cal party. They would be the last to ator from Massachusetts?
this necessary legitimacy. declare his inability to carry out the
With respect to the problem of vice- duties of his office if he were able to Mr. FONG. I am glad to yield to the
presidential vacancies, Senate Joint Res- do an. . Senator from Massachusetts.
olution 1 provides for the fl selection of a Se:late Joint Resolution 1 provides that Mr. SALTONSTALL. What the Sen-
new Vice President when the former the President may declare his own fit- ator has said in substance is that Con-
Vice President succeeds to the Presiden- ness to resume his powers and duties, but gress should act now on this subject, that
cy within 30 days of his accession to of- if his ability is questioned, the Cabinet it should act by constitutional amend-
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 Aped For Release 2003/10/FV t 1Q%%A9P 00'1~9f1Z9T 3151
ment, and that the constitutional Mr.FONG. I.yield. the Nation may lose the leadership of
amendment should be specific in its Mr. SCOTT. Mr. President, I rise in its President, and it provides suitable
terms rather than general, In order to support of Senate Joint Resolution 1, solutions for each of these peculiarly
m^`: fi
hed different situations
d th
?
e
s
I commen
w..,>rr.....NG, ?..
Mr. FONG, The Senator is correct. sentation he has made, and for the
We have been working on these problems scholarship which is evident in his ex-
for a long time, but have not been able position.
to come up with a substantively sound Let me say, for my part, that I shall
proposal. Now, we have such a proposal support the proposed Dirksen substitute
in Senate Joint Resolution 1, which is for Senate Joint Resolution 1 because I
specific in its terms, in order to leave no believe it to be simpler, wiser, and more
'doubt as to the devolution and orderly farsighted on a long-range basis to
transition of power, and the constitu- leave to Congress the discretion to
tional legitimacy of our Government. I prescribe, by statute, procedures for the
believe that the various amendments transfer of the President's powers and
which have been proposed to give the duties in the case of presidential in-
Congress statutory power to act on these ability.
problems will only lead us back to where to It occurs toe me Jothat int 1 one illustration as
we started.
The resolution of these, problems are discretion to Congress is that there is no
much too critical to leave for future provision in Senate Joint Resolution 1,
statutory action, and, like the problem as reported to the Senate, that deals with
of presidential succession, be the subject the inability of a Vice President to per-
of political decision. form his duties. If a Vice President dies
I believe that we should pass Senate or resigns, there is a provision for filling
Joint Resolution 1 now, because it is the vacancy. Let us suppose, however,
statesmanlike and the very best possible. that the Vice President suffers from an
solution to., crlt'ical problems and will inability. It would be rather awkward,
specifically deal with the problem as we it seems to me, to overburden the Con-
wish it to be dealt with. stitutfon with procedural details, better
Mr. SALTONSTALL. The Senator and more flexibility prescribed by statute,
would deal with the problem by a con- In an effort to foresee and imagine every
stitutional amendment rather than by possible eventuality and to meet every
statute. conceivable contingency.
Mr. FONG. The Senator is correct. Yet, with the increased importance of
h
That Is the consensus of all the experts.
Mr. BAYH. Mr. President-
The PRESIDING -OFFICER (Mr.
HARRIS in the chair). FI'heSenator from
Indiana.
Mr. BAYH. Mr. President, I compli-
ment the Senator from Hawaii [Mr.
FONG] on his well-defined statement, in
which he covered all the principal points,
and In which he stressed the need for the
Senate to join behind the consensus of
that we have the best
feelin
x
ert s
th
g
p
,
e e
proposal before the Senate now, and that minority leader, has persuaded me to I believe that if we take one step at a
if we spend more time searching for that accept the Dirksen amendment. time, we shall accomplish what we are
which is perfect it will become a search However, If the Dirksen amendment trying to accomplish. I believe that the
for the impossible. We are solving the should not be adopted, I revert, then, to present resolution is workable and
two key problems which have confronted my desire to see a workable proposal practical.
t
t l
as
eas
us-namely, vice-presidential vacancies adopted, one which will be a
and the disability of a President; and if wisely considered and prepared as Senate
we solve these two problems, we can solve Joint Resolution 1, sponsored by the dis-
the other problems at a later date. tinguished Senator from Indiana [Mr.
I compliment the Senator and thank 'BAYHI. I would, then, as a cosponsor,
him for the cooperation he has given the support Senate Joint Resolution 1.
subcommittee, as well as for the personal Mr. President, the tragedy which this
sacrifice he made to be In the Chamber Nation witnessed only 15 months ago
this afternoon to participate in this brought most forcefully to our attention
debate. once again the striking absence in the
Mr. FONG. I thank the Senator from Constitution of appropriate provision
Indiana. He has been working hard on for continuity of presidential leader-
this measure. It is through his dedica- ship. In this en of recurring crises at
tion that the joint resolution is now be- home and abroad, it is imperative that
fore the Senate. This has not been an at no time should there be any doubt
easy resolution to arrive at. The Senator in anyone's mind as to who is exercis-
from Indiana and the other members of ing the powers and duties of the Presi-
the committee have worked very hard on deny. That is the central issue we are
It. They have given it deep thought. We dealing with today in Senate Joint
have listened to the experts on the sub- Resolution 1.
ject, and this is the best possible solu- This measure, of which I am honored
tion that we can suggest. I believe that to be a cosponsor, provides a workable
it is a completely workable and practical means of assuring continuity of presi-
solution to the two key problems. dential Leadership. It recognizes the
Mr. SCOTT. W. President, will the very distinct nature of the two exigen-
Senator from Hawaii yield? ties-death and inability-under which
No. 33-9
viding for presidential succession, which
is prompted by the existing vague con-
stitutional language, would be removed.
The addition of language providing for
the filling of vacancies in the office of
the Vice President, which occur upon
the death, resignation, or removal of the
President, would assure the Nation that
it will always have a Vice President
ready and able to assume the office of
President or exercise the powers and
duties of that office should the occasion
arise.
Provision of continuity of presidential
leadership Is an urgent need that must
be met now. There is widespread sup-
port for Senate Joint Resolution 1, and
the climate for early ratification of this
measure by the States seems to be
favorable. Let us therefore promptly
approve it.
Before closing, Mr. President, let me
heartily commend the junior Senator
from Indiana for his thorough study and
diligent efforts in drafting Senate Joint
Resolution 1, and for bringing it to the
floor of the Senate. And I thank the
Senator from Hawaii for giving me this
opportunity to express my views.
Mr. FONG. I thank the Senator for
e con- his compliments. In answer to his ques-
the office of Vice President, t
tingency of the Vice President's in- tions, let me say that the Dirksen amend-
ability becomes a significant considera- ment would leave us almost in the same
tion and Congress could take care of it position as that from which we started.
by law, as it would be permitted to do Many questions will still remain unan-
under the broader language of the Dirk- swered. If something should happen to
sen amendment. the Vice President, we would not have
I am an original cosponsor of Senate the answer to that problem. It does not
Joint Resolution 1, but subsequent study militate against Senate Joint Resolution
of the Judiciary Committee's hearings 1. At present, no one succeeds to the
and report, particularly the views ex- position of Vice President if a Vice Presi-
pressed therein by my distinguished dent succeeds to the office of President.
THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS OF
ALL AMERICANS
Mr. EASTLAND. Mr. President, in
1954, soon after the decision in Brown
against Topeka, I made the statement
that it was impossible to fulfill the im-
plications of Brown against Topeka with-
out destroying the constitutional rights
of all other American citizens and all
other rights embodied in the Constitu-
tion and guaranteed to the people.
Acting under the contemporary and
current insanity in the country relating
to so-called civil rights, various bureaus
are issuing edicts and decrees without
any justification in law which deprive
the American people of their basic rights.
The Department of Defense under Sec-
retary McNamara, together with certain
underlings, has probably been the most
zealous of these department heads in
issuing decrees irrespective of the rights
of the American citizens. I wish to read
to the Senate a letter which I have just
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 A$ gved For Release 2003/10Q2NG1ARMDIAiRIl0Jk1@ OtQAQf February 19
received from Hon. Perry S. Ransom, Jr., Mx. President, this brings me to ask the Mr. DIRK:SEN. NET, President, I yield
of Ocean Springs, Miss., to show to the Secretary of Defense one question: If 5 minutes to the Senator from Kansas.
Senate how far these Government bu- Sergeant Fuller can be prohibited from Mr. CARLSON. Mr. President, in my
reaus have gone in surrendering basic attending a Baptist church in Ocean opinion, one of the most important pieces
rights to the current insanity of the Sprirgs, Miss? to make a few remarks, of legislation to be considered by this
country: flier Can thn Cnnre4-, ..4 i,..a..-.- _-_
rcrcnz o. nANaom JR., hibit Sergeant Fuller from attending resolution regarding presidential succes-
CONSULTING urINEER,
Ocean Springs, Miss., that Baptist church in Ocean Springs? slon and presidential disability.
Senator JAMES 0. EASTLAND, I do not expect that Sergeant Fuller's I commend the distinguished Senator
U.S, Senate, _ troubles or the troubles of the Baptist from Indiana [Mr. BAYHI and the mem-
Washington, n.C. Church at Ocean Springs, Miss., will at- bers of the subcommittee of the Judi-
DEAR SIR: Realizing full well the large vol- tract the wrath of either the National ciary Committee and the Judiciary Com-
lame of mail that you receive daily from the Counil of Churches or the Ci Libe ties' mittee for having devoted so much time
people you represent and the futility of in- Uniol r, but I do think the c ntry fight to the hearings and the preparation of
democratic government we claim, the right they ire apprised or the best part of two centuries, the
with
feel i
p a ciea, nd pres-
ns set forth by our Constitution. 1RESIDENIIAL AND VICE-PRESI- o ffWvi ce e . prr,es.. 'identia is
For my explicit protest the following facts DEVTIAL S CCESSION- o-l vacancies and pres PRESI- idential disabilities. Sixteen times, over
are herewith submitted: --.-
is
currently conducting in numerous Baptist 1 Thu Senate resumed the consideration nas been without a Vice President. Pres-
Churches a school of missions, whereby calls- of the joint resolution (S.J. Res. 1) pro- ident Garfield lay for 80 days unable to
sionarles come to our churches and relate posing an amendment to the Constitution perform the powers and duties of his
to us the work that is being done for the of the United states relating to Constitution
office-President Wilson was disabled for fiel his on local and
emphasiseour Christianlp op le sion 10. the Presidency and Vice-Presi- three oseriousPdisabilities. Eisenhower had
Fortunately,
are made aware of Just what our denomina- deny and to cases where the President the country was not confronted by an
tion is doing;to fulfill our Lord's great core- is unable to discharge the powers and international crisis during any of these
mission to "go and teach unto all nations." duties of his office.
One of our scheduled missionary speakers UNANIMOUS-CONSENT AGREEMENT periods. We must not take for granted
was to be a Sergeant Fuller (first name, serial that history will continue to treat us so
number, and specific assignment unknown Mr. MANSFIELD. Mr. President, I am kindly.
to me), who Is currently stationed at Kessler about to propound a unanimous-consent Over the Years, Congress has studied
AFB In Biloxi, Miss. Our association has requei.t. these dual problems at great length. The
now been informed that said Sergeant Fuller I ask unanimous consent that 1 hour main reasons for the lack of solution are
has received orders from his superiors in the for debate be allowed on the Dirksen the inability to arrive at a consensus and
Air Force that he is not to speak in our substi ute, to be equally divided between the unwillingness of individual Members
church as the audience is segregated. now
can the first amendment which guarantees the sponsors of the substitute and the of Congress to amend their own per-
the complete separation of church and state SenaGir in charge of the joint resolution sonal views In order to arrive at a work-
be ignored by the military in prohibiting on the floor of the Senate, the Senator able plan which could receive two-thirds
this man from exercising his religious be- from Indiana [Mr. BAYHI; that an hour vote in each House of Congress. A great
liefs by speaking to a local Baptist Church for debate be allowed on each amend- deal of effort has gone into the consen-
group because there are no Negroes in the went, the time to be divided between the sus embodied in Senate Joint Resolution
audience. To the best of my knowledge the sponsc rs of the amendment and the Sen- 1-the American Bar Association, the
B
pletely aptist Negroes of Ocean Springs their own
are com- ator from Indiana [Mr. BAYHI ; and that Committee On Economic Development,
church and satisfied
have and desire to In attend our 2 hours for debate be allowed on the joint legal scholars, constitutional lawyers and
church. Can it be that the Government will resolui ion, to be equally divided. members of the executive and legislative
attempt to compel the Negroes to Integrate The PRESIDING OFFICER. Is there branches of the Government have worked
Our churches, or can not the Great Society Objection? The Chair hears none, and together to develop a workable solution.
leave a soul's salvation to the individual and it is so ordered. The main problem confronting Con-
to the Lord? The unanimous-consent agreement, gress is writing a constitutional provi-
To reiterate, I, as an individual citizen subsequently reduced to writing, is as sion which would assure no break in the
strongly protest the actions of the military follow;
at Keesler AFB to prevent any American exercise of the presidential power. More
citizen from exercising his religious beliefs UNANIMOUS-CONSENT AGREEMENT than that, no doubt should be permitted
just because be happens to be in the Air Ordered, That the further consideration of to arise as to who holds the office.
Force. the joint resolution (S.J. Res. 1), proposing In addition to these two requirements,
Any actions that you may be able to make an amendment to the Constitution of the the procedure for transferring of power
to rectify this situation are endorsed and United States relating to succession to the should be fast, efficient, and easily under-
encouraged. Presidency and Vice-Presidency and to cases stood.
Yours very truly, were the President is unable to discharge the The Senate Judiciary Committee has
PERRY S. RANSOM, Jr., powers and duties of his office, debate on any spent days taking testimony of able and
One American Citizen. amends lent, motion, or appeal, except a mo-the In other words, a sergeant in the U.S. tion
hour, to lay be on
equally dividedl and cntrolled phase ofth is subj' ct s, discussing every
Air Force, who happens to be a religious by the mover of any such amendment or From the beginning of our Nation, we
person, was invited to address on a motion and the Senator from Indiana [Mr. have been without a Vice President in
religious subject other Americans who BAYH] : Provided, That in the event the Sen- excess of 20 percent of the time.
belonged to his religious sect. Because ator frcIn Indiana is to favor of any such
the meeting of this sect was not Inte- amendment or motion, the time in opposi- The preponderance of testimony has
grated, Sergeant Fuller of the U.S. Air tion th,aeto shall be controlled by the mi- declared that these problems must be
Force was deprived of his right of free nortty I Rader or some Senator designated by solved by constitutional amendment.
speech. The religious association wee him. They are of sufficient importance to our
deprived eech, of there igiousua liberty. was Ordend further, That on the question of country to be embedded in the bedrock
sp
the fine passage of the said Joint resolution, law of the land-the Constitution. Some
dom of assembly was likewise violated. debate Shan be limited to 2 hours, to be of those supporting this contention have
Mr. President, I bring this to the at- equally divided and controlled, respectively, been President Lyndon Johnson, Vice
tention of the Congress in order that the by the majority and minority leaders: Pro- President HUEERr HUMPRREY, former
Congress may know just how far the - riled, That the said leaders, or either of
insanity of the country has progressed them, may, from the time under their con- President Dwight Eisenhower, Attorney and the trol on the passage of the said Joint resolu- General Nicholas Katzenbach, former
insanity of the bureaus which tion, allat additional time to any Senator Attorney General Herbert Brownell, for-
are administering the laws"under the during the consideration of any amendment, mer Attorney General William Rogers,
Constitution of the United States, motion, Or appeal. the American. Bar Association's House
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 Appi-ge d For Release 2003/10/2f-9444k6b't7g$ rE
of Delegates by a unanimous vote, presi- gress. I sincerely hope that action can
dent of the American Bar Association, be taken on it at this session.
Lewis Powc1J and immediate past presi- Mr. DIRKSEN. Mr. President, I yield
dent of the. American Bar Association, myself 15 minutes,
Walter Craig. The PRESIDING, OFFICER. The
Opinion is divided rife whether Con- Senator from Illinois is recognized for 15
gress has authority to deal with the prob- minutes.
lem of disability. Any statute dealing Mr, DIRKSEN. I am sensible of the
with this problem would be subjected to urgency that is involved In connection
constitutional challenge in the, courts at with the proposal to amend the Consti.
a time of grave. natipnal crisis hen ac- tution. Events in history such as what
tion and certainty, not inaction and happened on the 22d of November 1963,
doubt, were demanded by the national the assassination of President Garfield,
Interest. who signed only a single extradition pa-
Sections 3 and 4 of this joint resolu- per while he lay in a virtual coma for 90
tion deal with the very difficult problem days, and the difficulty that the country
of Presidential disability. encountered at the time President Wood-
Section 3 enables the President to de- row Wilson was stricken, have from time
clare his own disability to perform the to time reenergized this issue. I am
powers and duties of his office and the quite aware of the desire to have some-
Vice President to assume these powers thing done and to have it done as quick-
and duties as Acting President. This ly as possible.
provides for the eventuality that the However, I am rathei sensible of an
President may be undergoing a. serious old line in the Book of Exodus:
operation orhe himself feels seriously ill Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do
and feels that the best interests of the evil.
country dictate that he voluntarily The word "evil" might mean "error,"
should turn over the Powers and duties and it can be used in its broadest sense.
of the Presidency to the Vice President I believe it has been pretty much of a
for the tenure of the President's disabil-
rty.
Section 4 provides that, if the Presi-
dent Is unable to declare his own dis-
ability, the Vice President and the
majority of the Cabinet may do so, and
the Vice President would assume the
Powers and duties as Acting President
for the tenure of the, President's disabil-
ity. Thus, the country would be pro-
tected under such'. circumstances as a
Presidential heart attack, which finds
the Nation's Chief Executive under an
oxygen tent when an effort Is made to
return missiles to Cuba.
The Vice President has the constitu-
tional responsibility to act and the Cabi-
net, appointed by the President, serves
as a sufficient protection against a pow-
er-hungry Vice President.
It is impossible for Congress to fore-
see every eventuality that could incapac-
itate the President or his successors.
Congress can, however, and I believe
should, make every effort to removethe
anxiety and apprehension that arises out
of the uncertainties of the Present law.
Mr. BAYII. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. CARLSON. I yield,
Mr. BAYIL I.compliment the Senator
from Kansas on his. statement, particu-
larly the emphasis he placed on the fact
that there has been much give and take,
and that this is as close as we are likely
to come to being able to nail down a final
determination. The time for us to act
has come. If we continue to postpone
this issue, we shall get further and fur-
ther away from the horrible sequence of
events which awakened public interest
In this subject and it will recede further
and further into the past.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
time of the Senator has expired.
Mr. CARLSON. Mr, President, I stated
- at the beginning of my remarks that I
felt the proposed legislation was one of
the most Important measures that would
be considered by this, session of the Con-
rule in our constitutional history that we
do not legislate in the Constitution. We
try to keep the language simple. We try
to keep it at a high level, and we offer
some latitude for statutory implementa-
tion thereafter, depending upon the
events and circumstances that might
arise. For that reason I have submitted
a substitute, which is extremely short-
in fact, a single paragraph-which I be-
lieve would encompass the problem that
confronts us, would meet virtually every
exigency, and would leave in the hands
of the Congress whatever legislation
might be necessary.
Before I go further, I commend the
distinguished Senator from Indiana [Mr.
BAYH]. No one has been quite so dili-
gent in pursuing this subject. The same
statement can be made concerning the
staff. The Senator has worked hard.
He is anxious to obtain action in this
body; and he hopes to obtain action In
the other body so that the constitutional
proposal can then go to the country.
The substitute which I have offered
has been skeletonized so that there
would be no ambiguities. There would
be no holes of any kind. If there were,
they could always be remedied by con-
gressional enactment. The substitute
provides merely that if the President is
removed from office, if he dies, or for
other reason leaves the office, the office
of President shall devolve on the Vice
President.
That subject has been controversial
ever since Chester A. Arthur came into
office, and, for that matter, even at the
time William Henry Harrison died in
office and was succeeded by a President
who at the time was not sure whether
or not he should accept the office or only
undertake the duties and the responsi-
bilities. My substitute would make it
pretty clear-and I believe it is true also
of Senate Joint Resolution 1-that in the
case of removal, death or resignation,
the office would devolve on the Vice Presi-
dent. That is very simple, and the
language would nail it down.
But in the case of the inability of a
President to discharge the powers and
duties of the office, the powers and duties
would devolve upon the Vice President.
For example, the President might be
alive. He might be incapacitated and
unable to discharge his responsibilities
as President. So the office would not
devolve upon the Vice President, but
merely the Powers and duties.
The Vice President would be desig-
nated as Acting President, and no more.
He would maintain that status until the
Inability had been removed.
My amendment would further provide
that-
The Congress may by law provide for other
cases of removal, death, resignation, or in-
ability, of either the President or Vice
President-
There might be a situation in which
both the President and the Vice"Presi-
dent would be disabled, There might be
a situation in which the Vice President
would be disabled, but the President
would be in possession of his faculties
and could carry on. In that event the
Congress, under the proposed substitute,
could enact a law to meet the situation
which would arise under those circum-
stances, and would also be able to declare
what officer shall be President or Vice
President, in the case of inability, to act
as President; and such officer would be
or act as President accordingly.
That is rather broad language, but it
is designed to be broad. I believe It is
in keeping with the language of the Con-
stitution Itself.
The amendment contains one other
further provision:
The commencement and termination of any
inability shall be determined by such method
as Congress may by law provide.
The distinction between the substitute
and Senate Joint Resolution 1 is that
section 4 and section 5 of the joint reso-
lution provide in a little detail, at least,
what shall be done when there is an in-
ability, if the President Is disabled and
is not in a position to declare his inabil-
ity. Then it would be up to the Vice
President and a majority of the principal
officers of the executive departments or
such other body as Congress may by law
provide to transmit to the Congress
written declarations that the President
was disabled; and the Vice President
would immediately assume the powers
and duties of the office as acting Presi-
dent.
Mr. President, there might not be a
Vice President. How could he then join
with the principal officers of the execu-
tive departments in transmitting a mes-
sage to the Congress?
The language of the joint resolution
is as follows:
Whenever the Vice President and a ma-
jority of the principal officers transmit that
message-
But if there is no Vice President, ob-
viously we cannot fulfill the equations
that are carried in Senate Joint Resolu-
tion 1.
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 ,gloved For Release 2003/1WNAaN0bb5tj6'j67 February 19
I believe that one could point out some merits. He has worked throughout his President to the powers and duties of his
other defects that would give me some period of service on the committee on this office is applicable only to instances where
concern. For that reason I problem. He has devoted a tremendous the President has been declared disabled
cause
pro- amount of time and energy to the issue without his consent, as provided in section 4;
believe for that a measure of the rkind eason
and his work has helped to keep the issue and that, where. the President has voluntarily
posed should be broadly sketched, and before us. declared himself unable to act, in accord-
that ample latitude should be left for the It is a pressing domestic Issue. It is not ance with the procedure established by sec-
Congress to act. a new Issue by any means. It has been be- tion 3, he could restore himself immediately
It is said that we must "nail it down" fore the Congress numerous times. It has to the powers and duties of his office by de-
and dispose of the matter forthwith. been tie subject of endless study by legisla- Glaring in writing that his inability has
But if and when the proposal-and I am tots, constitutlonal authorities, and others. ended. The subcommittee may wish to con-
hopeful that apr0 osal of some kind will All ha""e sought to provide an answer, but no sider whether langauge to insure this inter-
A proposed solution has been found that met pretation should be added to section 3.
go to the country-is disposed of by Con- the problem. Nonetheless, a solution must "Third, I assume that even where dis-
gress, the committees can begin to work be found. We must contrive language that ability was established originally pursuant
at once Upon legislation to Implement will salve the problem. to eection 4, the President could resume the
such a constitutional proposal. It could There are those who contend that no con- powers and duties of his Office immediately
be ready, and all the hearings and details stitutional amendment is required, that the with the concurrence of the Acting President,
could be disposed of, as soon as the net- entire matter can be disposed of by legisla- and would not be obliged to await the ex-
essary number f States hadiatited the tion. I do not hold to this view although piration of the 2-day period mentioned in
then it would not require many distinguished scholars support it. section 5.
amendment. Rather- I share with our distinguished sub- "Fourth, I assume that transmission to the
more than a matter of days to enact' the comm ties chairman, our subcommittee, and Congress of the written declarations referred
necessary implementing legislation, so the full committee, the view that a consti- to in section 5 would, If Congress were not
that no time would be lost. We would tutlonal amendment is required. then in session, operate to convene the Con-
always preserve the necessary latitude. The problem however Is this: How do we grass in special session so that the matter
For that reason, I think we- ought to fashion the amendment? Do we follow the could be immediately resolved. in this re-
proceed on a broader base than we pres- advice of the Attorney General who says: gard, section 5 might be construed as im-
ently contemplate. That must have "Apart from that, the wisdom of loading` pliedly requiring the Acting President to con-
the Constitution down by writing detailed vene a special. session In order to raise an
been in the thinking of the President in procec oral and substantive provisions Into Issue as to the President's inability pursuant
connection with his message to Congress it has been questioned by many scholars and to section 5.
on January 28. The President said: states nen. The framers of the Constitution "Further In this connection, I assume that
It. VACANCY IN TIIE OFFICE OF THE VICE saw the wisdom of using broad and expand- the language used In section 5 to the effect
Pae5I0ENT ing omeepts and principles that could be that Congress "will immediately decide" the
Indelible personal experience has impressed adjust ad to keep pace with current need." issue means that if a decision were not
And do we follow the advice of another reached by the Congress immediately, the
upon ec the indisputable logic and topers- noted constitutional scholar, Martin Taylor, powers and dutles of the Office would revert
rive necessity of assuring that the second chairman of the Committee on Constitu- to the President. This construction is suf-
office of our system shall; like the first office, tional Law, New York Bar Assocciation, who fietently doubtful, however, and the term
be at all times occupied b an incumbent who
Is able and who is ready to assume the powers has to most active in and who "immediately" sufficiently that the
ay y wish to consider adding
Executive and Com- urged d the subcommittee only ale last year that: cebcony m
and mander duties in of Chief. the Chief "In first rst plan, you ou have a basic ffi a certainty ty b by including more e precise language
In our history, to this point, the office of mani.l principle of constitutional law that t in section :f or by taking action looking
the President has never devolved below the any amendment should be simple. I am toward the making of appropriate provision
first clearly prescribed step of constitutional subst:.ntially quoting from John Marshall, in the rules of the House and Senate.
succession. In moments of need, there has It should not give detail. You see the "In my testimony during the hearings of
always been a Vice President; yet, Vice error of that in a great many proposals be- 1963, I expressed the view that the specific
cause as time goes by, there might be great procedures for determining the commence.
Presidents m ve less mortal than deots, dlsagl Cement es to the practicability of ap- leant and termination of the President's In-
' resigned, men n h have die died in Sn the office an and oho
Seven
has plyint: it under changed circumstances. So ability should not be written Into the Con-
fce vacant to addition succeed ce dt to eight thhe e Presi- who the fmdamental [principle) that you give stitution, but Instead should be left to Con-
left the office broad enabling Powers in the Constitution is
dency what you should rely on, changing, if you grass so reds the Constitution would not be
encumbered by detail."
It is a question whether in the case pleas, Implementation with changing con- Did the action of the full committee in
of succession it would be possible under ditior s." amending Senate Joint Resolution r correct
Senate JointResolution 1'to fill that rhea is the view I hold. Keep constitu- the deficiencies pointed out by the Attorney
office or not. So itwouldbe something tiona amendments simple. Leave the detail General? Letuse consider what he said be-
to Implementing legislation which can be fore the full Judiciary Committee of th?
of a departure from what the President than?ed to reflect changing circumstances. other body. He began observing that:
said about the indispensable need of Leave the Constitution As the basic docu- "As the committee well knows, the factual
having the second office as well as the meat from which all authority flows, but do situ "As the with which House Joint Resole-
first office always occupied. With that not attempt to detail the application to
general proposal, I fully agree. specific problems In the basic document It- tion 1 is designed to deal are numerous and
self. complex. Inevitably, therefore, some aspects
There are other matters that I might of the proposal will raise, problems of am-
present in connection with the amend- Joint And that is Resolution I the as difficulty reported by with the Senate full In biguity for resolving some observers., In order to assist
merit, committee with amendments, It was pointed In resg any such ambiguity, I propose to
I shall submit at this point a general out iy the Attorney General when he was set forth the interpretations I would make in
statement on the general subject, and befor,r the subcommittee. He said he had several difficult areas so that the com-
also some questions that have been difficulty with the amendment. It was neces- mittee may consider whether clarification is
raised. I ask unanimous consent that eery : or him to make a number of assume- needed." hen they may be printed at this point in the tions in regards to the operation of the he He t made brepe ttedd tTe fleet observation that
R$CORD, together with an article entitled amendment. This should not be-the ore our amendment should be clear and understand- his assumption of the meaning of "majority
"Bayh Amendment-Second' Thoughts able vote." He then repeated his second observa-
on Disability," written by Roscoe Drum- What were the problems that the Attorney tion regarding the procedure established by
mond, and published in the Washington General had with the amendment? This is section 5 of Senate Joint Resolution 1, and
Post of recent date. ' what be said: then added:
There being no objection, the state- "First, I assume that in using the phrase "However, I note In this regard that the
ordered 'majority vote of both Houses of Congress' Senate Committee on the Judiciary has re-
merit questions, article were in section 2, and 'two-thirds vote of both sanity approved an amended version of Sen-
to be , printed in the and article
RECORD, as follows: Hopsns' in section 5, what Is meant is a ate Joint Resolution 1, the counterpart of
STATEMENT DY SENATOR DIRXSEN maj?'ity and two-thirds vote, respectively, House Joint Resloution 1, under which the
We have before us Senate Joint Resolu- of those Members in each House present and President may resume his powers and duties
tion 1. It is a proposed amendment to the voting, a quorum being present. This in. in this situation only by following a pro-
Constitution to meet the problem of presi- terprstatlon would be consistent with long- cedure comparable to that established by
aential inability and of vacancies in the of- standing precedent (see, e.g.. Missouri Pao. section 5. 1 would much prefer a provision
fice of Vice President. Ry.' Co. I. Kansas, 248 U.S. 276 (1919) ). which would clearly enable the President to
I commend the distinguished chairman of "S,icond, I assume that the procedure terminate immediately any period of ina-
the subcommittee on Constitutional Amend- established by section 5 for restoring the bility he has voluntarily declared.
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 Ap'066ed For Release 2003/10/5 4 OII08001foOZO E 3185
:He then repeated the third and fourth fauver, then the chairman of the Corlett- two days to regain his authority when he has
observations he made to our committee but tutional Amendments Subcommittee, and voluntarily relinquished it? If the Presi-
then made this further observation: cosponsored by Senator Keating. It was dent is disabled and the Congress is not in
"The Senate Committee on the Judiciary Senate Joint Resolution 35. session, who calls it into session? Under
has revised Senate Joint Resolution 1 to pro- In his appearance before the subcomrnit- the Constitution only the President can.
vide that 611 declarations, Including the dec- tee on June 18, 1963, Attorney General Katz- What happens if a Vice President, who is
larations by the President under sections 3 enbach, then the Deputy Attorney General serving as Acting President, became dis-
and 5 And the declaration by the Vice Presi- suggested two minor modifications to the abled himself?
dent under section 4, shall be transmitted to amendment. As modified the amendment Then, too, if the method of filling a va-
the President of the Senate and Speaker of would read: Caney in the office of Vice President proves
the Hghse of Representatives. This change, "in the case of the removal of the Presi- unworkable, would It not be preferable to
the Conlniittee states, would provide a basis dent from office or of his death or resigna- change the procedure by legislation rather
on which con esslonal leaders could con- tion, the said office shall devolve on the than by another constitutional amendment
vLIie Congress If it were net then in session. Vice President. In case of the inability of as Senate Joint Resolution 1 requires?
However, the Constitution exptessly author- the President to discharge the powers and These are but a few of the questions that
i9es oiily the President to convene Congress duties of the said office, the said powers and come to mind as I study this amendment.
session ((art. II, sec. 3, clause 2) , duties shall devolve on the Vice President as Consider the problems that the State legis-
Sn nIal view" session that provision it might be Acting President until the Inability be re- latures will have. Who will be present to
a p i'pd special
aY1 vi be coi might in moved. The Congress may by law provide answer the questions of the members of the
al sess that CionoCongress its c$ownn officers. Accord- for the case of removal, death, resignation, or legislature concerning the mechanics of all
provide inability, both of the President and Vice of these details? Wouldn't the simpler
s
spelt I would think It p officers.
President, declaring what officer shall then amendment which merely clarifies the pres
that the Acting President must convene a be President, or in case of inability, act as ent Constitution and leaves the details to
sZ3eclal session in order 'to raise an issue President, and such officer shall be or act as be legislated be far preferable and more
v:
a __ a.. ?w resident's Inability. _
., ...--,
t
h
ll .. _ _ .___..-_d,.
ct
id
den
s
a
- be
-._--__
o.
nstr le in `that way, the committee may inability shal'l be earlier removed. The coy.- to - me in connection with Senate Joint Res-
wish to consider whether it would not be mencement and termination of any inability olutton 1:
advisable to 'add 'eipfes's' language which shall be determined by such method as Con- 1. Where in section 5 is there any language
would make That intention unmistakable. gress may by law provide." limiting it to those Instances where the Vice
"Fit ih,, I assume that the language used The Attorney General endorsed the president and a majority of the heads of the
In section 5=to the effect that Congress 'will amendment as Changed, saying: executive department have declared the
immediately decide' the issue means that ,in addition, crucial and urgent new situ- president unable to discharge the powers and
if a decision were not reached by the Con- ations may arise In the changing future- duties of office?
gress immediately, the powers" ahdduties of not covered by Senate Joint Resolution 28- 2. If there is no such language, should
the offioe'would revert to the President. This where it may be of importance that Con- there be?
cbnstructlpn Ai Sufficiently doubtful how- gress, with the President's approval, should 3. Must the President wait 2 days to see If
ever, and the term 'immediately' is suffi- be able to act promptly without being re- the Vice President files a declaration that the
dlentlyvague, eself though used also in arti- quired to resort to still another amendment president is still under a disability before re-
ds I, section -9, clause 2 of the Constitution, to the Constitution. Senate Joint Resolu- covering his office even though he had volun-
that the committee may wish' to consider tion 35 makes this possible; Senate Joint fully relinquished it?
adding certainty by including more precise Resolution 28 does not. 4. One of the purposes of Senate Joint
language in section 57 or by taking action "Since It is difficult to foresee all of the Resolution 1 is to permit the President to de-
looking toward the making of approximate possible circumstances In which the Presi- Clare his own inability with the assurance
provision in the rules of the House and dential inability problem could arise, we are that he can immediately regain it upon the
Senate; opposed to any constitutional amendment termination of inability. Would the compli-
"The Senate Judiciary Committee, in ap- which attempts to solve all these questions cated procedure contained In Senate Joint
proving Senate Joint Resolution 1; has by a series of complex procedures. We think Resolution 1 for regaining the office make it
changed the language 'Immediately decide that the best solution to the basic problems highly unlikely that a President would use
the issue' to 'immediately proceed to decide that remain would be a simple constitu- it in most cases?
the issue.' This change seems to have the tional amendment, such as Senate Joint 5. If a President were physically unable to
effect of reversing the interpretation I have Resolution 35, which treats the contingency write or even sign his name, how could he
Indicated, We result being that under San- of Inability differently from situations such make a written declaration of his own in-
ate Joint Resolution 1, as approved by the as death, removal, or resignation, which ability?
Senate committee, the Acting President states that the Vice President in case of 6. Another purpose of Senate Joint Rose-
would continue to exercise the powers and Presidential inability succeeds only to the lution 1 is to make certain that the offices of
duties of the Presidency while Congress con- powers and duties of the office as Acting President and Vice President are filled at all
sidered the matter and until one of the President and not to the office itself, and times. Testimony before the committee in-
Houses of Congress brought the issue to a which declares that the commencement and dicated the urgency of this. The national
vote and failed to support the Acting Presi- termination of any inability may be deter- security was Involved, it was said. The Pres-
dent by a two-thirds vote. mined by such methods as Congress by law ident in his message to Congress on January
"I note that the committee has before it shall provide. Such an amendment would 28, 1965, said:
several proposals (H.J. Res. 3, H.J. Res, 119, supply the flexibility which we think is in- "Indelible personal experience has iln-
and H.J. Res. 248) which would provide that dispensable and, at the same time, put to pressed upon me the indisputable logic and
once the issue of inability was referred to rest what legal problems may exist under imperative necessity of assuring that the
Congressthe President would be automati- the present provisions of the Constitution second office of our system shall, like the first
ca)ly restored to the powers and duties of his as supplemented by practice and under- office, be at all times occupied by an incum-
office if Congress failed to act within 10 standing." bent who is able and who 1s ready to assume
days. These proposals would add a measure He reaffirmed his Support for this amend- the powers and duties of the Chief Executive
of protection for the President against in- ment in 1964 by submitting his 1963 state- and Commander in Chief."
terminable consideration of the Issue by ment for the record, and, I might say his 7. Does Senate Joint Resolution 1 make
Congress. 13owever, It would still be poe- three predecessors, Attorneys General provision for having the offices filled at all
eible Under these proposals for the issue to Brownell, Rogers, and KtItNEnr, have also times?
be decided by delay rather than by a vote on endorsed the amendment. The House of 8, Suppose the President becomes disabled
the merits. ' Delegates of the American Bar Association and the Vice President becomes Acting Pres-
"In view of the difficulty of establishing in has endorsed that amendment on two cep- ident. Where is the provision for filling the
advance exactly what 'period of considera- Grate occasions. The New York State Bar office of Vice President?
tion would be apprb)riate, the most effec- Association reaffirmed Its support of such an 9 What happens If the Vice President is
tive course' mighpt be to Initiate promptly amendment this very week and it has been under a disability when the President be-
the adoption of rules for the consideration of supported by the Association of the Bar Of comes disabled?
questions of Inability that would insure a the City of New York.
can Constittitution lion says into t that p only nly the
reasdhably prompt vote on the merits. I Let me point out that this amendment, as 10 .d The
the
do feel that, if the issue of national leader- modified, would permit precisely what Sen- President . Pion. What happens g ss into S e cial not s-
Ship is to be Importantly affected by delay, ate Joint Resolution 1 attempts to do but if is in
then delay should favor the President. it would reserve the detailed procedure in session when the Vice ma-
t t-
Particularly is this so if the President may Senate Joint Resolution 1, which has proved jritys of declare heads depar
d r cu tautivs e daaptes of his office-
not, under section 3, unilaterally declare the principal difficulty, for legislation where the re the an Pfethe the executive
an immediate end to' periods of inability such details can more properly and easily be chargHowe e th powe e ca and into session to office.
which he has voluntarily declared." defined.
But there is another ourse open to us. What is the practical difficulty with Sen- charge its function under section 6?
vacancy in
provided in
In the 88th
amendment was Congress by Senator pKee left unanswered. Must the President await the office of Vice President as a
Approved For Release 2003/10/22 CIA-RDP67B00446R000500170020-7
 91 GO I
A0iQved For Release 2003/10IVt~~000 February 19
Senate Joint Resolution 1, proves unworka- embedded Into the. Constitution and that be modified only by another eonstitu-
ble or undesirable, wouldn't it be preferable instead, the necessary authority be granted tional amendment.
to be able to change it by legislation rather to Ccpgress to act.
t3 51i by another constitutional amendment preference is for flexibility and for
Rs required by Senate Joint Resolution 1? M. DIRKSEN. Mr. President, where, adequate powers in the hands of Con-
for jpstanee, in section 5 is there any gress to deal with the problem. I am
BAYn AMENDMENT-SECOND THOVCnxs ON lang loge limiting that section to in- sensible of the fact that something must
DISABILITY stanoes In which the Vice President be done. I am glad that the distin-
(By Roscoe Drummond) and a majority of the heads of the ex- guished Senator from Indiana [Mr.
Some Influential Senators are having sec- ecutipe departments have declared the 13AYRI has carried the proposal to this
and thoughts on the wisdom of the Bayh President to be unable to discharge the point. For aught I know, my name may
amendment as a means of dealing with Frost- powers and duties of his office? If there be on the joint resolution. Certain it is
dentlal disability, not on the urgency of the is no such language, should there be? that I voted for the proposal in the pre-
action, And there is no acute dissent on Must the President wait 2 days always what should be done, only on how it should if the Vice President files to see erv asation Congress, that but ags that with the res-
what
. be done. a declaration e Proposals hat might be
The how is important. It could be cruci- that the President is still under a dis- made after the measure had left the
ally important. ability before recovering his office, even committee could without prejudice be
The second thoughts, which are growing thou;th he had voluntarily relinquished submitted on the floor of the Senate. So
on the Hill, have to do with whether to write it?
detailed procedures into the Constitution to t I exercise only the reservation the subcommittee that m I kept
One the Purposes Senate Joint unto mytlh the subc om I
try to cover all contingencies that w or to propose Reso: ratio ion 1 is t to Permit it the President and in the he full committee, because se I
a simple amendment that would authorize
Congress to deal with these matters. to declare his own inability, with the as- wanted to see some measure come to the Senator ST M. Dnexsex, of Illinois SilraluR that he can immediately regain floor of the Senate upon which the San-
Democratic ,
the Democratic Senator EUGENE MCCARTHY, it upon the termination of such in- ate could work its will and get it to the
of Minnesota, have come out on the side of a ability. Would the complicated pro- other body, and finally to the country.
simple enabling amendment. Other Sena- cedm econtained in Senate Joint Reso- The PRESIDING OFFICER. The ad-
tors, both Republican and Democratic, have lotion 1 for regaining the office make it ditional time yielded, to himself by the
indicated either their support or their open- highly unlikely that a President would Senator from Illinois has expired.
mindedness. use it in most cases? Mr. DIRIGSEN. Mr. President, I yield
There is a strong case to be made In favor If a President were physically unable 5 minutes to the distinguished Senator
of an authorizing amendment without at-
tempting to write detailed law Into the Con- to w:dte or even sign his name, how from Nebraska,
stitution. could he make a written declaration of Mr. HRUSKA. Mr. President, in the
The role of the Constitution is to distribute his oivn inability? discussion and consideration of the joint
authority between the three branches of the Anlther Purpose of Senate Joint Reso- resolution, both in the present session
Government and between the Federal Gov-lotion 1 is to make certain that the offices of Congress and earlier, there were two
ernment and the States. Its function is not of President and Vice President are filled principles that I felt were most In-
to presdribe in detail how that authority at all times. Testimony before the com- Portent. One of those points was just
shall be used. Since Congress does not have mitts 7 indicated the urgency of this emphasized by the Senator from nil-
the power to deal with Presidential disability -
and Vice Presidential vacancies, the only matte r, and that is the reason why I re- Dais, when he spoke 'in favor of his sub-
need Is to give Congress that power. cited the extended paragraph from the stitute measure, namely, the inadvisabil-
Amendment to the Constitution should Fresh tent's message to Congress. - ity placing too many detailed procedural
not legislate. Good precedent: The 16th Doe $ Senate Joint Resolution 1 make provisions in the Constitution.
amendment, which gave Congress authority provi; ion for having the offices filled at This makes the Constitation very in-
to "lay and collect taxes on incomes." It did all tines? flexible. Flexibility is a principle which
not attempt to write a tax code. Bad prec- The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. Ty- has been inherent in. our Constitution.
edent: The 18th amendment, which wrote nINns in the chair). The 15 minutes It has been followed quite consistently.
the prohibition law into the Constitution and made repeal of the amendment the only yielded to himself by the Senator from Exceptions to it are very few indeed.
redress when it did not work. Illinois have expired. I fear that with the great number of
Can't we profit from the experience of the Mr. DIRKSEN. I yield myself 2 addi- procedural provisions found in the Sen-
18th amendment, or must we repeat it all tional minutes. ate joint resolution, its reported by the
over again? It seems to me once is enough. Suppose the President becomes dis- committee, we shall very likely, if we are
what if we write into an amendment all abled and the Vice President becomes ever called upon to exercise it, run into
the precise procedures for ailing Vice Presi- acting President. Where is the provi- something that will prove unworkable.
dential vacancies, and coping with Presiden- ston fir filling the office of Vice Presi- For that reason, it would be better to
tial disability? And then later we find con- dent?
tingencies nobody foresaw? Or what ii some couch the proposed amendment in gen-
major provision proves inadequate? Then Whit happens if the Vice President is eral terms and then provide that Con-
the amending process would have to start under a disability when the President gress shall be empowered to implement,
all over again. becomes disabled? by the legislative process, the amend-
These are practical questions. For ex- The Constitution provides that only ment.
ample, one proposal to go into a possible the Pr 'sident may call Congress into spe- There are two ways of doing it. One
amendment would leave it wholly with the cial session. What happens if Congress would be the substitute resolution of the
President to alarm that he has recovered is not in session when the Vice President Senator from Illinois. The other is
from a disability. But what if he insists up- and a: najority of the heads of the execu- proposed in the amendment offered by
on exercising his powers when he is unable five departments declare the President the Senator from Vermont on behalf of
to do so It has happened twice. President
Garfield lingered for 80 days between life and linable to discharge the powers and du- the Senator from Kentucky [Mr.
death, disabled but unwilling to accept his ties Of his office? How would Congress COOPER].
disability at any time. The same with Presi- be cal.ed into session to discharge its The latter method would grant to
dent Wilson for 17 months. function under section 5? Congress the power to prescribe any
The voluntary arrangements established If the method of filling a vacancy in other plan for dealing with disability,
by Presidents Eisenhower, Kennedy, and the off.be of Vice President, as provided in the choice of a Vice President and
Johnson with their Vice Presidents suggest in Senlte Joint Resolution 1, proves un- the filling of a vacancy in addition to
that this fearful hoarding of power might workahle or undesirable, would it not be that detailed in Senate Joint Resolu-
not be repeated. But we cannot be sure that preferable to be able to change it by tion 1.
some future President, after being disabled, legislation rather than b
would not seek to recapture his authority y another con- That is one of the Principles. The
before he was ready. one proposed amend- stitutic nal amendment, as required by other principle is the natter of separa-
ment would leave this matter unresolved. Senate Joint Resolution 1? tion of power, We have had testimony,
Congress cannot possibly foresee every con- Mr. President, those are some of the throughout the past 6 or 3 years, that
tangency. That is why it seems to me that questions that arise. My interest is that it is desirable for an amendment deal-
Senator DrsasEN and Senator MCCARTHY are there to no ambiguities and no rigidities ing with this subject to respect the doc-
wise In urging that detailed methods not be written into the Constitution that could trine of separation of powers. It has
 Ap 4 ed For Release 2003/10&P~Ff ` b4 Lbo1 fWOE
been my view that that doctrine is vio-
lated in the, resolution as approved by
the Committee on the Judiciary, since
the decision as to whether or not dis-
ability has terminated is left for Con-
gress.
When we ask another branch of the
Government for the decision, the doc-
trine of separation of powers is vio-
lated. That was debated thoroughly.
The Senator from Indiana has developed
a fine body of testimony which is con-
trary to that viewpoint.
It is, however, a viewpoint that was
at one time the judgment of our present
Attorney General, three of his predeces-
sors, as nearly as I remember.
As I have indicated In my individual
views of the committee report, it is my
view we should abide by these two prin-
ciples. The substitute amendment of
the Senator from Illinois complies with
those two principles.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
time of the Senator has expired.
Mr. BAYH. Mr. President, I yield 5
minutes to the Senator from North Caro-
lina, or as much time as he may care
to use in the opposition to the Dirksen
amendment.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
Senator from North Carolina is recog-
nized for 5 minutes.
Mr. ERVIN. Mr. President, I rise in
opposition to the Dirksen amendment.
The Dirksenamendment,totally ignores
one of the crucial questions which has
brought this matter to the floor of the
Senate. That is the fact that vacancies
occur in the office of Vice President.
The Dirksen amendment makes no at-
tempt to provide for the election of a
Vice President in case a Vice President
succeeds to the office of President, or is
removed from office by impeachment.
It ignores one of the things which has
made this question so crucial. It ig-
noresthe necessity of having someone
continue in the office of Vice President.
There is another fatal flaw in the
Dirksen amendment. That is the pro-
vision that "the commencement and
termination of any inability shall be de-
termined by such method as Congress
may by law provide."
I thank God that was not placed in
the Constitution when the Constitution
was adopted. If it had been placed in the
Constitution, we would have seen, in the
most tragic period of our history, the
total blackout of government of the peo-
ple, by the people, and for the people in
this Nation. I refer to the tragic days
when a congressional group was trying
to take complete power in this Nation.
The group was led by the then Senator
Ben Wade, who was President pro tem-
pore of the Senate and who wanted to be
President. At that time. there was no
Vice President. Lincoln had been as-
sassinated and had been succeeded in the
office of President by Vice President An-
drew Johnson.
This group in Congress had intimi-
dated the Supreme Court of the United
States after that Court hadhanded down
one or two courageous decisions. The
group scared the Supreme Court so that
it did not dare to decide cases as they
should have been decided,
The group then decided that they
would impeach Andrew Johnson. The
.only thing that saved Andrew Johnson
from impeachment, and saves us from
behaving as a "banana republic" often
behaves on the seizure of power by am-
bitious men, was the provision of the
Constitution that required a two-thirds
vote before the President could be re-
moved from office. Power-hungry men,
headed by a man who aspired above
everything else to become President of
the United States, and who was' in line
for the Presidency If Andrew Johnson
had been removed from office, were pre-
vented from taking control by a provision
of our Constitution which required a two-
thirds vote for impeachment, and then by
only one vote short of the two-thirds
majority.
'If the provision referred to had been
in the Constitution at that time-"The
commencement and termination of any
inability shall be determined by such
method as Congress may by law pro-
vide"-Andrew Johnson would have been
removed from office. The group would
have set up a medical commission and
had President Johnson declared mentally
disabled. But they did not have the
power under the Constitution. The only
way that they could have removed him
would have been by impeachment, and
only by impeachment by a two-thirds
majority.
With this substitute amendment incor-
porated in the Constitution, any time
that power-hungry men in Congress were
willing to go to the extremes that men
were willing to go to in those days, they
could take charge of the Presidency.
Under the Dirksen proposal, they could
provide that one of their favorite Mem-
bers should succeed to the office of Presi-
dent if there were no Vice President at
the time. That is a dangerous thing.
Mr. President, someone has very wisely
said that a nation which does not re-
member the history of the past is doomed
to repeat its mistakes.
So this amendment should be rejected
for at least two reasons. It does not deal
adequately with the question of vacancies
in the Vice Presidency, and it would place
dangerous power in the hands of Con-
gress.
I am not disturbed about the doctrine
of the separation of powers here, because
the powers of government are not always
separated. The Constitution provides,
for example, that a President can be im-
peached, and be removed from office by
the Senate. The Constitution provides
a good many things that must be done, by
the President andthe Congress. The
Constitution provides that the President
may make treaties, but they must be
ratified by the Senate. It provides that
the President shall appoint heads of de-
partments of the Federal Government,
judges, ambassadors, and other officers
of the United States; but the nomina-
tions are subject to confirmation by the
Senate, under the Constitution.
So there are many cases in which the
powers of government are jointly re-
posed in both the executive and the leg-
islative branch.
This amendment should be rejected for
those two reasons. The joint resolution
presented by the committee contains full
protection against any group of men
thirsting for power taking over the office
of the Presidency, as could be done by
the Dirksen proposal, because it requires
a two-thirds vote. It requires action of
the Vice President and members of the
Cabinet and action by Congress to re-
move the President or Vice President.
I agree with my good friend from Ne-
braska, in that I do not like to have too
many specific things written into the
Constitution, but when we try to protect
somebody, we had better write specifics
into the Constitution if we do not want
to run the risk of converting the United
States into what I would call a banana
republic. We had better provide for a
two-thirds vote by the Congress, such as
the joint resolution reported by the com-
mittee provides, to remove the President
from office, where he risks the charge of
disability.
Mr. BAYH. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. ERVIN. I yield.
Mr. BAYH. I am glad the Senator
from North Carolina has pointed out the
time when our forefathers determined
that there should be a commingling of
the various branches which in most cases
we keep separate. I am also glad he
pointed out the need for specifics under
certain circumstances.
It seems to me that a close analysis of
our Constitution discloses that it is a
wonderful, broad, general plan for a
wonderful society, but at the same time
certain basic specifics to protect certain
inalienable rights are necessary, such as
the basic features provided in article 2,
section 1. which has since been replaced
by the 12th amendment. It specifically
provides, in great detail, how elections
shall be conducted, because we do not
want Congress to take away from the
people the right to decide for themselves.
As the Senator knows, the Constitution
contains many specific qualifications-
for example, to be President, and to be
Members of this great body.
I commend the Senator for what he
has said about the qualifications pro-
vided.
Mr. ERVIN. As the Senator knows,
in the Bill of Rights specifics are pro-
vided for the protection of the individual
against governmental tyranny. There
are specifics protecting the individual
against unreasonable searches and sei-
zures of his papers, effects, and home.
The Constitution continues specifics to
protect many rights.
That is the reason why the amendment
proposed by the committee was prepared
in the form it is in. It was necessary to
protect a President against a power-
hungry Congress, on the one hand, and
also to see to it that there was proper
protection before such drastic steps
should be taken.
Mr. SALTONSTALL. Mr. President,
will the Senator from Indiana yield for
a question?
Mr. BAYH, I am glad to yield to the
Senator from Massachusetts, who has
been an ardent ally from an early date.
Mr. SALTONSTALL. This may be a
small, immaterial matter, but I would
like to clarify it in my mind and for the
RECORD,.
 Turning to section 3 of the Senator's MI SALTONSTALL. Therefore, ei- message of January 28, 1965, Senate Joint
proposed constitutional amendment, it ther the President of the Senate or the Resolution 1 represents a carefully con-
reads: Speaker of the House, or both, would sidered solution that would responsibly meet
Whenever the President transmits to the call (.`ongress into session, and they would the urgent need for action in this area. In
con-
President of the Senate and the Speaker of have the power to do it? addition, ensu of it considered represents a opinion, I formidable have, ac-
the House of Representatives his written Mi. ERVIN. Yes; that would be !m- scordins gly, testified twice in recent weeks in
declaration that he is unable to discharge plied from the fact that Congress would support of the solution embodied In Senate
powers the and powers and duties shall duties be of his discharged b office ,y the such meet immediately. Joint Resolution 1 and House Joint Resolu-
Vice President as Acting President. MI SALTONSTALL. But If Congress tion I.
adjourned sine die, there would not have My views on the particular question here
Under the Constitution, the Vice Presi - to be: any provision in the sine die ad- involved were stated on January 29, 1965,
dent is President of the Senate, but if he jourrment to permit those officers to call before the Subcommittee on Constitutional
Amendments of the Senate Judiciary Com-
became Acting President under this it book into session. mittee, as follows:
amendment, he would no longer be Presi- Mr, ERVIN. No. In my testimony during the hearings of
dent of the Senate, but the President Mi. SALTONSTALL. We sometimes 1963, I expressed the view that the specific
pro tempore would become the President include such a provision. procedures for determining the commence-
of the Senate. Is that correct? Mr. ERVIN. Yes. ment and termination of the President's In-
Mr. BAYH. That is correct. Mr. SALTONSTALL.. It would be ability should not be written Into the Con-
Mr. SALTONSTALL. The Vice Presi- automatic? stitution, but instead should be left to Con-
dent would become Acting President and Mr. ERVIN. Yes. gress so that the Constitution would not be
encumbered by detail. There is, however.
thereby lose his title as President of the Mr. President, my good friend from overwhelming support for Senate Joint Res-
Senate. Is that correct? Nebriska referred to the testimony of olution 1, and widespread sentiment that
Mr. BAYH. That is correct. I point the rresent Attorney General in 1963. I these procedures should be written into the
out for the RECOan, with respect to the fnvitii the Senator's attention to the Constitution. The debate has already gone
wording of the amendment, that, as hearings, at pages 10 and 11. I read on much too long. Above all, we should be
originally introduced and as reported by from the bottom of page 10: concerned with substance, not form. It is
the committee, it was suggested that the to the credit of Senate Joint Resolution 1
In my testimony during the hearings of that it provides for immediate, self-imple-
message would be transmitted to Con- 1963, I expressed the view that the specific menting procedures that are not dependent
grew. We were determined to think of procedures for determining the commence- on further congressional or Presidential ac-
all eventualities that could possibly hap- ment and termination of the President's in- tion. In addition, it has the advantage that
pen. We determined that such an even- ability should not be written Into the Con- the States, when called upon to ratify the
tuality might happen when Congress was stitution, but instead should be left to Con- proposed amendment to the Constitution,
not in session. Therefore we' changed gress so that the Constitution would not be will know precisely what Is intended. In
the wording so that it would read that encumbered by detail. There is, however, view of these reasons supporting the method
the transmission should be to the Presi- overwhelming support for Senate Joint Res- adopted by Senate Joint Resolution 1, I see
olution 1, and widespread sentiment that no reason to insist upon the preference I
dent of the Senate and the Speaker of these procedures should be written into the expressed in 1.963 and assert no objection on
the House of Representatives. By that Constitution. The debate has already gone that ground."
wording, the normal, legal procedure of on mach too long. Above all, we should be I reaffirmed these views with the same ex-
delivery would take place in the manner concerned with substance, not form. It Is to plicit language in my prepared statement
set out. Delivery to the President of the the a'edit of Senate Joint Resolution 1 that delivered on February 9, 1965, before the
Senate and the Speaker of the House It prc vides for immediate self-implementing House Judiciary Committee. In view of the
would be sufficient for the intention of progcedures that are not dependent on further above, there should be no question that I
the resolution. congressional or Presidential action. In support Senate Joint Resolution 1.
addit: on, it has the advantage that the Sincerely,
Mr. SALTONSTALL. May I ask the State,, when called upon to ratify the pro- NICHOLAS DEB. KATZENBACH,
Senator from Indiana, who has worked posed amendment to the Constitution, will Attorney General.
so hard in this matter, a question? Per- know precisely what Is Intended. In view of
haps he has answered it In his speech these reasons supporting the method adopted Mr. ERVIN. Mr. President, my opin-
when I was not present In the Chamber. by Senate Joint Resolution 1, I we no rea- ion is that the present Attorney General
If Congress were not in session, would son to insist upon the preference I expressed can now claim something which all of us
in 1963 and assert no objection on that Would like to be able to claim; namely,
the fact that the transmission is to be to grour d.
the President of the Jenate and the that we are wiser today than we were
Speaker of the House automatically call Mr. BAYH. Mr. President- yesterday.
Congress into session? The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. Mr. BAYH. I wish to thank my good
Mr. BAYH. It is specifically provided Txnixcs in the chair). The Senator friend the Senator from North Carolina
in section 5, when it is necessary for Con- from Indiana. [Mr. ERVIN 1, and the distinguished Sena-
gress to convene, that it shall immedi- Ml. BAYH. I should like to suggest tor from Massachusetts [Mr. SALTON-
ately proceed to decide. We think that that this might be the appropriate time STALL]. Both Senators have been of
is sufficient to enable the President of to ask unanimous consent to have great help in trying to forge the final
the Senate or the Speaker of the House Printed in the RECORD a letter which I content of our arguments.
to call a special session. reeei fed yesterday from the Attorney There are one or two additional points
Mt, ERVIN. Mr. President, will the General, Nicholas Katzenbach, in an ef- which were raised by the minority leader,
Senator from Indiana yield to me for the fort o clarify and point out specifically on which I should like to comment.
purpose of clarifying the question asked that his opinion does away with some of First, I should like to point out that in
by the Senator from Massachusetts? " the r imors to the contrary. the quotation which he read from the
Mr. BAYH. I yield. There being no objection, the letter Presidential message, the President was
Mr. ERVIN. The amendment orig- was ordered to be printed in the RECORD, at that particular time addressing him-
inally provided for the report to be made as folows: self to the need for a Vice President at
to Congress. The question was raised OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, all times, to elect a Vice President by
whether a report could be made to Con- 'Washington, D.C., February 18, 1965. Congress and Presidential appointment,
to BATH, a matter which is not even contained in
gress when Congress was in adjournment. Hon. Bincer
So we adopted the language that the re- U.S. senate, Washington, D.C. the Dirksen amendment,
DEl R SENATOR BATH: I understand that
port should be made to the President recent newspaper reports have raised some As I said in my statement, the Presi-
of the Senate and the Speaker of the quest: on as to whether I favor the solution dent unequivocally, on all fours, endorsed
House of Representatives to make cer- for the problem of presidential Inability em- both disability and Vice-Presidential re-
tain that the Vice President could take bodied in Senate Joint Resolution 1, or placement Provisions in the joint resolu-
over, immediately, in case of the Presi- whether I prefer a constitutional amendment tion.
dent's disability, without waiting for whicl. would empower Congress to enact DID. Second, I refer to my earlier remarks,
. provisions of section 3
Congress to meet. But it is implied that Inability commences and when it terminates that
Congress shall meet, because section 5 Obviously, more than one acceptable solu- where the President voluntarily gives up
contains the language, "Congress shall tion to the problem of presidential dIniabbi_liityy, his powers, it Is the understanding-win-
Aipprovec~yFoafe eie"ase 2003/10/22 :it Pi~'KUYb/BUe04X9kdb(%UU"I /UU2Ur d by the testimony of the Attorney
 1965 N~g~~Sif1~TA~
Apoved For Release 2003/10/2UGIA=RDP6~BOiT40~7~b~ 3189
neral-that he could assume it merely away the safeguards to which the Sena- Mr. HRUSKA. Mr. President, I rug-
by declaratipn, and would not have to tor from North Carolina [Mr. ERVIN] has gest the absence of a quorum.
Invoke the, provisions of section 5 and so adequately directed our attention. The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
bring in the Vice President, the Cabinet, Mr. SALTONSTALL. Mr. President, clerk will call the roll.
and Congress.
Next, I should like to point out that will the Senator from Indiana yield? The legislative clerk proceeded to call
Mr. BAYH. I yield. the roll.
if we had a President unable to write his Mr. SALTONSTALL. Is it not true, Mr. HRUSKA. Mr. President, I ask
name, the matter would not be considered following up what the Senator has said, unanimous consent that the order for the
under section 3, as the distinguished that in this instance this subject had quorum call be rescinded,
minority leader has suggested, but rather been discussed for many years, and that The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without
it would be considered under section 4, if we send it back in a general form and objection, it is so ordered.
which is specifically provided for In the say that Congress will do something if Mr. HRUSKA. I ask for the yeas and
resolution in a case in which a President the amendment should be adopted, the nays on the Dirksen substitute.
of the United States plight have a heart average legislator, the average citizen will The yeas and nays were ordered,
attack and be in An oxygen tent at a say, "Pshaw. Congress is putting the The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
time when missiles night be moving to thing off further, and this is not definite." question is on agreeing to the amend-
Cuba or some other Area of the world. Mr. BAYH. The Senator is absolutely ment offered by the Senator from Illinois
The health and welfare of the country correct. The effect would be very much [Mr. DIRKSEN]. The yeas and nays have
would demand immediate action; and the same, I am sure, as that contained in been ordered and the clerk will call the
thus the Vice President and a majority the 20th amendment, which provides for roll.
of the Cabinet would, act, when the that eventuality. Thirty-two years ago The legislative clerk called the roll.
President might be unable to do so. that provision was specified, and Con- Mr. LONG of Louisiana. I announce
The issue of calling a special session gress has done nothing since that time. that the Senator from New Mexico [Mr.
has been well covered In previous col- If an enabling constitutional amend- ANDERSON], the Senator from Nevada
loquy and I shall not repeat what has ment were passed by the two Houses of [Mr. BIBLE], the Senator from North
been stated; but it Is our understanding Congress and sent to and subsequently Dakota [Mr. BURDICK], the Senator from
that sufficient authority has been Indi- ratified by the House, we still would have Pennsylvania [Mr. CLARK], the Senator
cated in the report to adequately point to enact a law, which we have not done from Tennessee [Mr. GORE], the Senator
out that the Intention of the amend- in 170 years. from Alaska [Mr. GRUENINC], the Sena-
ment Is to give, this power to the Presi- Now that we are close to solving the tor from Oregon [Mr. MORSE], the Sen-
dent of the Senate and the Speaker of problem, why put it off to some day in ator from Utah [Mr. Moss], the Senator
the House. the future when interest may have from Oregon [Mrs. NEUBERGER], the Sen-
Iclose,by saying that it seems to me waned, and Congress may be dilatory ator from Florida [Mr. SMATHERS], the
we are making a general policy deter- about it, as it has been in the past? Senator from New Jersey LMr. WIL-
mination which was articulated so well Mr. SALTONSTALL. That is an ap- LIAMS], are absent on official business.
by my colleague, the Senator from North pealing argument. That is the funda- I also announce that the Senator from
Carolina [Mr. ERvIN], as to whether we mental argument with the average mem- Georgia [Mr. RUSSELL] is absent because
are going to open Pandora's box to per- ber of a State legislature. of illness.
mit a blanket check provision to be given Mr. BAYH. I thank the Senator from I further announce that the Senator
to Congress to provide laws In these vital Massachusetts for pointing this out. from South Carolina [Mr. JOHNSTON],
areas at some later date. Mr. President, one last point and then the Senator from North Carolina [Mr.
Let me reemphasize that if we give i shall have concluded my arguments, JORDAN], the Senator from Massachu-
Congress the power by law to decide later, which have ably reenforced by many setts [Mr. KENNEDY], the senior Senator
we shall not be able to prevent a majority Senators. I believe that the most im- from Minnesota [Mr. McCARTHY], the
of Congress from passing any laws it portent ingredient in a constitutional junior Senator from Minnesota [Mr.
may wish to pass, and then we lmmedi- amendment such as this is general pub- MONDALE], the Senator from Maine [Mr.
ately negate the two-thirds protection lic acceptance of a formula which we MusiIE], the Senator from Wisconsin
residing In the impeachment provisions provide. As I pointed out in my earlier [Mr, NELSON], the Senator from Con-
of the Constitution since its inception, remarks, the horrible tragedy in Dallas, necticut [Mr. RIBICOFF], and the Sena-
and which is also provded In Senate Joint Tex., would have been much worse-if for from Missouri [Mr. SYMINGTON] are
Resolution 1, as so vividly pointed out by that is possible to imagine-if we had not absent on official business.
the Senator from North Carolina [Mr. had a definite procedure which was ac- I further announce that, if present and
ERVIN]. eepted by the people of America so that voting, the Senator from New Mexico
There has been a trend of thinking Lyndon Johnson could assume the office [Mr. ANDERSON], the Senator from Ne-
that if we have a loosely drawn, non- of President, succeeding to the office vada [Mr. BIBLE], the Senator from
specific constitutional amendment, the from that of Vice President. Pennsylvania [Mr. CLARK], the Senator
legislative bodies might be more inclined It is my judgment that a constitutional from Tennessee [Mr. GORE], the Senator
to adopt it. I am satisfied that. several amendment-passed by a two-thirds vote from Maine [Mr. MuSKIE], the Senator
Members of this body who have had of the Senate, passed by a two-thirds from Wisconsin [Mr. NELSON], the Sena-
legislative experience at the State level vote of the House of Representatives, and tor from Oregon [Mrs. NEUBERGER], and
can speak with more Authority than I.. subsequently ratified by three-fourths of the Senator from Florida [Mr. SMATH-
But my 8 years in the Indiana General the State legislatures, with all of the at- Eas] would each vote "nay:'
Assembly have led me to believe that this tendant Publicity-would be much better On this vote, the Senator from Massa-
was a false assumption. With this in accepted by the people of America, and chusetts [Mr. KENNEDY] is paired with
mind, we sent copies of Joint Resolution they would be more aware of its provi- the Senator from Colorado [Mr. DoMI-
35, which was merely an enabling act sions, than a law which passed both NICK]. If present and voting, the Sena-
giving Congress power to act, and Joint Houses of Congress by majority vote, tor from Massachusetts would vote
Resolution 139 of the previous year, The PRESIDING OFFICER. Who "nay," and the Senator from Colorado
which is almost Identical with Senate yields time? would vote "yea."
Joint Resolution 1, to the president of Mr. HRUSKA. Mr. President- On this vote, the senior Senator from
the enate and the speaker of the house Minnesota [Mr. MCCARTHY] is paired
of all the States, Mr. BAYH. Mr. President, I yield back with the junior Senator from Minnesota
The preponderance Qf eyide}Ice-I be- the remainder of my time. [Mr. MONDALE]. If present and voting,
lieve we received only three letters to Mr. HRUSKA? Mr. President, If there the senior Senator from Minnesota would
the contrary-was that State legisla- is any time left on the substitute amend- vote "yea," and the junior Senator from
tive bodies would prefer to enact the rati- ment, I yield back the remainder of that Minnesota would vote "nay."
fication resolution, that State legislatures time. In this vote, the Senator from Iowa
should deal with a specific proposal and The PRESIDING OFFICER. All [Mr. MILLER] is paired with the Senator
not give Congress a blank check to take time is yielded back. from Oregon [Mr. MORSE]. If Present
No. 33-10
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 Qppgoved For Release 2003/1QnNQRA Ti30 bb56 627 February 19
:ad voting, the Senator from Iowa would [No. 23 Leg.] "Sea 2, Electors for President and Vice
Vole "yea," and the senator from Oregon YEAS-12 President chosen in any State under this
would vote "nay. . Constitution shall serve as such until the
Bennett Dirtiest Smith date on which. electors are chosen for the
On this vote, the Senator from Ken- Boggs Hickenlooper Thurmond next regular election of a President and a
tucky [Mr. MORTON] is paired with the Case Prouty . Tower Vice President. Vacancies which may occur
Senator froth Utah [Mr. MOSS]. If Cotton Scott Williams, Del. before that date in the membership of elec-
present and voting, the Senator. from . NAYS--60 tors of any State because of death, removal
Kentucky would vote "yea," and the Aiken - Harris Metcalf from office, or resignation shall be filled by
Senator from Utah would vote "nay." Allott Hart - Monroney the selection of successors in the next regu-
Bartlett -Hartke ' Montoya lar election of that State in which members
On this vote, the Senator from Idaho Bass Hayden Mundt of the Rouses of Representatives are chosen.
[Mr. JORDAN] is paired with the Senator Bayh Hill Murphy In the event that a vacancy In the mem-
from Connecticut [Mr. RIBICOFF]. If $rewster Holland Pastore bership of electors of any State exists and
present and voting, the Senator from Byrd, lli' Inouye Pearson
Byrd; I17 t Va. Inouye Pell a vote for a new Vice President occurs at a
Idaho would vote "yea," and the Senator Cannoa Jackson Proxmire time prior to the next regular election of
from Connecticut would vote "nay." Carlso!i Kennedy, N.Y. Randolph that State in which members of the House
Ori'this vote, the Senator from Cali- church Lauache Robertson of Representatives are chosen, the remain-
Curtis Long, Mo. Saltonstalt ing electors of such State shall choose a
forma [Mr. TSUCHEL7 is paired with the Dodd Long, Ia. Simpson successor to serve until such next regular
Senator from Missouri [Mr. SYMING- Dough s Magnuson Sparkman
TON) If present and voting, the Sena- Eastla! id Mansfield Stennis election.
tor from California would vote "yea," and Eiiender McClellan Talmadge "Sec. 3. If the Congress in not in session
Ervin McGee Tydin at a time at which a new Vice President Is
the Senator from Missouri would vote Fannri McGovern Yarborough to be selected under this article, the person
?nay. , , Fong McIntyre Young, N. Dak. discharging the powers and duties of Pres-
On this vote, the Senator from North Fulbright McNamara Young, Ohio ident shall convene the Senate and the Horse
Dakota [Mr. BURDICK] is paired with the NOT VOTING-28 of Representatives in joint session for that
Senator, from Alaska [Mr. GRUENINOI. Anger: pn Jordan, N.C. Muskie purpose.
If present and voting, the Senator from Bible Jordan, Idaho Nelson ?BEC, 4. A. `Vice President chosen under
BOrdlok Kennedy, Mass. Neuberger this article shall serve as such until the end
North Dakota would vote "yea," and the Clark Kuchel Ribicoff of the term for which the Vice President or
Senator from Alaska would vote "nay." Cooper McCarthy Russell Vice-President-elect whom he succeeds was
Mr. DIRKSEN. I announce that the Dombdck Miller Smathers
Clore from Kentucky [Mr. COOPER Mondale Symington elected"
Gruee ins Morse Williams, N.J. Renumber succeeding; sections accordingly.
and Mr. MORTON], the Senator from Javite Morton
New York (Mr. Javrrs], the Senator from Johnston . Moss Mr. THURMOND. Mr. President, the
Idaho (Mr JORDAN] and the Senator So Mr. DIRR5EN'S amendment was re- amendment proposes to delete sections 1
from Iowa 'Mr. MILLER] are necessarily jeotel. and 2 of Senate Joint Resolution 1. The
absent. AMENDMENT NO. as substance of section 1 of Senate Joint
The Senator from California [Mr. Mt. T1;I7RMOND. Mr. President, 'I Resolution 1 which clearly states that the
KUCREL] is absent on official business. call !lp my amendment No. 29 and ask Vice President shall become President
The Senator from Colorado [Mr. unanimous consent that its reading be upon the death; resignation, or removal
DoMINiCK] is detained on official busi- dispgnsed with, but that it be printed at from office of the President is contained
ness. thisooint In my remarks. in the amendment which I Propose. In
On this vote, the Senator from Colo- The PRESIDING OF'F'ICER. Without addition, the present sections 3, 4, and 5
rado [Mr. DoMINICK] is paired with the objection, It 1s so ordered. Amendment of Senate Joint Resolution 1, dealing
Senator from Massachusetts [Mr. KEN- No.S 9 is as follows: with presidential inability, would remain
NEDY],. It present and voting, the Sen- On page 2, beginning with line 10, delete unchanged if my amendment were
ator from Colorado would vote "yea" and all d,wm through and including line 16, and adopted.
the Senator from Massachusetts would insert in lieu thereof the following, to wit: This amendment, Mr. President, con-
vote "nay." "svcrroN 1. if the office of President be- tains the substance of Senate Joint Reso-
On this vote, the Senator from Idaho comes vacant because of the death, removal lution 25, which I introduced in the Sen-
[Mr. JORDAN] is paired with the Senator from office, or resignation of the President, ate on January 15, 1965. There is one
from Connecticut [Mr. RIBICOFF]. If the 'Tice President shall become President. change, which I shall mention later.
if the office of vice President becomes vacant This amendment was referred to the Ju-
present and voting, the Senator from because of the death, removal from office,
Idaho would vote "yea" and the Senator or resignation of the Vice President orthe diciary Committee of the Senate and
from Connecticut would vote "nay." death of a vice-President-elect before the subsequently to the Constitutional
On this vote, the Senator from Cali- time fixed for the beginning of his term, or Amendments Subcommittee, and it was
forma [Mr. KUCHEL] is paired with the beca'ise the Vice President or a Vice-Presi- available for consideration by that sub-
Senator from Missouri [Mr. SYMINGTON], dent-elect has assumed the office of Presi- committee during the hearings and ex-
If present and voting, the Senator from dent by reason of the death, removal from ecutive sessions held in connection with
office; or resignation of the President or the this overall problem. I wrote a letter to
California would vote "yea" and the death of a President-elect before the time
Senator from Missouri would vote "nay." fixed for the beginning of his term, the the chairman of the Constitutional
On this vote, the Senator from Iowa electors who were chosen to cast ballots in Amendments Subcommittee, the junior
[Mr. MILLER] is paired with the Senator the most recent election of President and Senator from Indiana [Mr. BAYH], rec-
from Oregon [Mr. MoasE]. If present Vice President shall meet in their respective ommending the electoral college ap-
and voting, the Senator from Iowa would stabs on the Monday of the third week proach for the selection of a new Vice
vote "yea" and the Senator from Oregon begi. fining after the date on which the office president in. the case, of a vacancy in that
would vote "nay." of V ice President became vacant, and shall office. This letter stated my general rea-
On this vote, the Senator from Ken- then vote by inflict for a new vice President. sons for preferring the electoral college
The,, shall name in their ballots the person approach to the method contained in
tucky [Mr. MORTON] is paired with the toted for as vice President, and shall
Senator from Utah [Mr. Moss]. If make a list of all persons voted for as Vice Senate Joint Resolution 1, which calls for
present and voting, the Senator from President and the number of votes for each, the nomination of it new Vice President
Kentucky would vote "yea" and the Sen- which list they shall sign and certify, and by the President arid confirmation by a
ator from Utah would vote 'Inay.' transmit to the President pro tempore of the majority vote of both Houses of Con-
If present and noting, the Senator sem,te. The votes so cast shall then be grass
counted, and a new Vice President shall be At the outset, I would like to outline
from New York [Mr. JAVrrs] would vote selected, in the manner prescribed by the
"nay.,, twelfth article of amendment to this Con- exactly what my amendment calls for.
The result was announced-yeas 12, stittition for the selection of a vice A vacancy in the office of Vice President
nays 60, as follows: Pros (dent. may occur for any of the following rea-
 lyoa
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sons: death removal from office, resig- position. I do not believe that either of may seem minor to some; however, to my
nation, death of the Vice-President-elect these objections has enough merit to mind, the proposal contained in my
before his tejzu begins, or his assumption outweigh the obvious advantages of the amendment is preferable.
of t4Q gJSce 2f. the. President or President-
-
-
- -
-- ---- r,cc r.ee,ueuc woula, Mr. UIRKSEN.
meritI yield 2 minutes to
,,. ,? ,, ,?
If under the terms of my amendment, take the Senator from Mississippi.
. for any of these reasons, a vacancy place on the Monda
th
th
y of
e
ird week Mr. STENNIS. Mr. President, the
occurs in the office of the Vice President, beginning after the vacancy occurred in Senate is now exercising one of its great-
the electors who were chosen in the most the office of the vice President. This est responsibilities, that of considering
r&Ont presidential election would meet would mean that the electoral college a proposal to amend the Constitution of
IInf their respective States on the Monday would have acted within a month after this great Nation. And the specific pro-hg, date on w ohhe the vacancy occurred. vacancy
sufficient uam amount ofstme would for all no before
clearly oneSenate the most Rim-
The electors would c$st. their ballot for serious candidates for the office to make portant matters before the Congress. It
a new Vice president, certify the result their positions clear, and yet it would be is my privilege to cosponsor this resolu-
of their election, and transmit this cer- timely enough to avoid any crippling gap tion and to speak in its support today,
titled list to the President pro tempore due to a longlasting vacancy In the office As all Members of the Senate know,
of the Sengte. The President of the of Vice President. As to the contention Senate Joint Resolution 1 has three basic
Senate then wouldgroceed in accordance that the electoral college is not equipped purposes: First, to provide that upon the
with theproVlsipn , of the 12th amend- to hold hearings, I do not believe that occurrence of a vacancy In the office of
ment to thyConstitutlon to count the formal hearings are necessary to the the Presidency, the Vice President shall
ballots and certify the election of a new election of a new Vice President. After become President; second, to provide for
Vice President. Inthe event that no all, the views of any serious candidate the selection of a new Vice President in
candidate received a majority of all the will be well known, and everyone will event of a vacancy in that office; and,
electoral votes, then the Senate would have the opportunity of expressing their third, to provide a method of determin-
ehoose a.h ew.Vice President in accord opinion and preferences. ing when the Vice President shall serve
with he provisiols of ,the 12th amend- As a practical matter, the individual as Acting President in the event of the
meat to the Constitution. chosen by either the method contained Inability of the President, and also to
Section 2,qf this.auiendment provides in my amendment, or the method con- provide a method of determining when
fo
r filling any vacancy among the elec- tained in Senate Joint Resolution 1, the President is able to resume the duties
tors of any State by election at the next would probably be the same. Undoubt- of his office. While there may be dis-
regular election of. that State In which edly, the President will make known his agreement as to the specific proposals to
Members of the House of Representatives wishes as to the choice of a new Vice resolve these issues, I believe that the
are chosen. In the event that a vacancy President. The electors In the individual provisions of Senate Joint Resolution 1
exists among the electors
f
St
-
o
any
ate
,when It is necessary to elect a new Vice
President, the vacancy would be filled
by the remaining electors. This is to
insure that the full vote to which any
State is entitled would be cast. This
latter Provision is the only modification
of Senate Joipt Resolution 25 as I origi-
nally introduced it. ,
Section 3,of my amendment Provides
for the calling of a special joint session
of Congress by the person discharging
the Powers and. duties of the President
In the event that Congress is not in ses-
sion at the time a new Vice President is
to be selected, Section 4 merely provides
that the Vice President elected under the
procedure provided for in that amend-
ment would serve only during the term
for which the Vice President or Vice-
President-elect whom he. succeeds was
elected.
Mr. President, i believe that the
method of selecting a new Vice President
provided for in my amendment is pre-
ferable to that provided in Senate Joint
Resolution 1, for several reasons. First,
it has the advantage of retaining the
general election process which we all
recognize as so necessary in a republican
form of government, Second, the popu-
larly elected body of the people, the elec-
toral college, is the proper body to fill
vacancies in the office of Vice President.
Third, election by the electoral college
would generate a greater degree of public
confidence and a broader base of support
for the individual chosen.
The only objections to this proposal
which have come to my attention are
that the electoral college is too cumber-
some and time consuming to act quickly
in emergencies, and that It is not
equipped to conduct hearings on the
qualifications of a candidate for the
would presumably elect his choice for
a new Vice President. Therefore, I do
not feel that the objections voiced to the
electoral college method are sufficient to
overcome its distinct advantages.
Section 2 of Senate Joint Resolution 1
raises some very pertinent questions
which are not answered In the Judi-
ciary Committee's report; for example,
the amendment states:
The President shall nominate a Vice Presi-
dent who is to take office upon confirmation
by a majority vote of both Houses of Con-
gress.
Under this wording, it is not clear
whether the Senate and House of Repre-
sentatives are to meet in joint session and
confirm the nominee of the President by
a majority of the 535 of both Houses
taken together, or whether they are to
meet independently and have a majority
of each House voting separately. This
is a detail which easily could, and should,
be clarified. However, no clarifying
language on this point is contained in
the committee's report.
One reason advanced In support of the
presidential nomination procedure con-
tained in Senate Joint Resolution 1 is
that, in practice, it conforms with what
occurs in the nominating conventions of
the two major parties at the present
time. It is true that the presidential
nominee of both parties is given great
latitude in choosing his vice-presidential
rpnning Mato. in the convention. How-
ever, I feel that there is a great deal of
difference between choosing the man
who is to run on the same ticket with
the presidential candidate, subject to the
vote of the people, and naming the man
who would almost automatically become
the new Vice President. This distinction
I do not believe It necessary to discuss
each of these provisions in detail, be-
cause the Senator from Indiana [Mr.
BAYH] has done an outstanding job of
presenting to the Senate both the need
for this resolution and an explanation of
its terms. He is to be highly commended
for his diligent study of this problem and
for his perseverance in mobilizing a na-
tional sentiment for immediate action.
Although the Senator from Indiana
has performed such an excellent service
in presenting this issue to the Senate, I
do want to comment briefly on the ma-
jor provisions of Senate Joint Resolu-
tion 1. The question has been raised, for
example, that this proposal Is too de-
tailed, and that it would be best to leave
the determination of specific provisions
up to the Congress. It is the consensus
of legal authorities, however, that Con-
gress does not have the constitutional
authority to provide by legislation that
the Vice President shall actually become
President upon the occurrence of a va-
cancy in that office. Section 1 of Senate
Joint Resolution 1 resolves this issue by
simply providing that the Vice President
shall become President in such an event.
Surely no one can question the fact
that a constitutional amendment is nec-
essary in order to provide for the selec-
tion of a new Vice President whenever
there is a vacancy in that office. Con-
gress would clearly be assuming author.
ity not granted by the Constitution if it
were to attempt to provide for such a
contingency by legislation. And yet, who
can question the necessity of insuring
that this Nation will never be without
both a President and a Vice President?
It has also been argued that sections
4 and 5 of Senate Joint Resolution 1
treat in too great detail the method of
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 FE 9if3 ved For Release 2003/1&WWA196(hhJpR500~ OF7 February 19
determining the factual questions of both The PRESIDING OFFICER. The cannot afford a breakdown, or even a
the Inability of the President and the joint resolution is open to further slowdown in such a changeover phase.
removal of that inability. I submit, how- amendment. The Chair recognizes the While we may hope for the best, we must
ever, that a close consideration of these Senator from Nebraska. always be prepared for the worst. This
sections reveals that it is imperative that Mr. HRUSKA. Mr. President, I call was never more true than in today's
the method of resolving these issues be up my amendment and ask that it be nuclear age, wed toithe iback g's crisis
spelled out in the Constitution in the state i. pages of
manner prescribed by Senate Joint Res- The PRESIDING OFFICER. The the afternoon newspapers headlining still
glutton 1. To provide any broader stand- clerk will state the amendment. another crisis.
ards, such as simply giving Congress the Tie LEGISLATIVE CLERK. On page 3, This Nation recently survived a
authority to determine these questions line 20, strike out the word "two" and tragedy of the worst proportions that led
by statute, would encroach on the au- insert in lieu thereof the word "seven." to the ascendancy of our President, Lyn-,
,thority on the executive branch and Mi.. HRUSKA. Mr. President, my don Johnson. But then we were fortu-
would constitute a violation of the sepa- amendment pertains to section 5, which nate in having a Vice President, particu-
ration of powers doctrine. In my opin- involves a situation in which a Presi- larly one who had served In the forefront
ion, sections 4 and 5 handle these prob- dent has been disabled and a Vice Presi- of our Government at its highest levels.
lems effectively without writing into the dent is performing the duties and as- At some future time we might not be so
Constitution such great detail as to de- sum] rig the powers of President as Acting fortunate.
stroy the necessary flexibility. President. Now is the time to face the problem,
Mr. President, in this modern age it When the President declares in writing and now is the time to act, before the
is imperative that we not leave to chance and sends to Congress his declaration next crisis, so that we will be prepared
any possible question of who shall exer- that he has become restored to compe- should the need again arise. And we
cise the powers and responsibilities of tenee and ability once again, the bill must act with extreme care, for we are
the most powerful office in the world. as roported by the committee, provides a dealing with a constitutional amend-
Congress, if it fails to act on this crucial period of 2 days in which the Vice Presi- ment, which by its nature bespeaks of
national issue, will have refused to ac- dent; with the concurrence of a majority permanency.
ce$t its responsibility. I believe that of the Cabinet members, can take issue To cope with the problems of Presi-
Senate Joint Resolution 1 presents the with, the President on the question of his Office oInability and vacancies muse
best possible answer to the problems of ability.
Presidential inability and succession. It T.'iereupon Congress shall immediately provide means for orderly transition of
represents a consensus of legal and con- proceed to make a decision. The Executive Power in a manner that re-
stitutional authorities. It provides a so- language of section 5 provides that spects the separation of powers concept,
lution to an issue of such urgency, not "Thereupon Congress shall immediately and maintains the safeguards of our tra-
only for our Nation, but also Indeed for proceed to decide the issue. ditional checks and balances system.
the whole world, that it is incumbent on It Is my contention that the 2-day Finally, any such provision must have
the Congress to take immediate action. period is insufficient for the Vice Presi- the confidence and support of, our people
I strongly support this resolution and den; and members of the Cabinet to de- if it is to accomplish the desired results.
hope that the Senate will pass it by an ride whether they want to raise the issue I believe that the pending measure
overwhelming vote. of tae President's ability. In these days meets these tests.
I yield back any additional time that when much traveling is done by mem- So, Mr. President, I salute our able
I have. ben. of our Cabinet, and when on occa- young colleague, Senator BIRCH BAYH,
Mr. BAYH. Mr. President, I yield my- slor..: the Vice President also travels fre- for meeting the challenge. He saw the
self 1 minute. quetly, if there would be such a decla- need, and while others talked about it,
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The ration by the President in the absence he took the lead in working out a solu-
Senator from Indiana is recognized for of these parties the 48-hour period tion and then worked steadfastly for its
1 minute. world obviously prove to be much too adoption, I was privileged to join Sen-
Mr. BAYH. Mr. President, I have said smell. ator BAYle: as a cosponsor of this resolu-
repeatedly In the Chamber that one of Ctiginally I had intended to make the tion and take this opportunity to cam.
the main criteria, if not the main crf- period 10 days. However, I feel that 7 mend the junior Senator from Indiana
terion, for the orderly transition of ex- days would be an appropriate and ade- for his fine contribution in filling this
eeutive authority is acceptance by the quote time for the members of the Cabi- gap In our Constitution that has plagued
people. With all due respect to the Sen- net to discuss the matter. They could our Nation since its establishment.
ator from South Carolina, since we have inform themselves of the actual condi- Mr. BA'YH. I thank the Senator from
been involved In this discussion, I have tiort of the President, perhaps visit with Arkansas, not only for his kind remarks,
repeatedly consulted people in my State hint, perhaps visit with his personal phy- but for the significant contribution he
and other States that I have visited, who sician. Then they could decide for them- has made, not only in his cosponsorship
were the members of the electoral col- sehrs, on the basis of intelligent and full of the proposal, but in the enlightening
lege from their State. To date, I have. inf,irmation, whether they should uphold debate which was had in the subcom-
found one person who knew one member the President's statement that he was mittee.
of the electoral college. age In restored to capacity. For that rea- Mr. President, I yield 5 minutes now
I believe that the people of the United son 'my amendment provides that there to the Senator from Tennessee [Mr.
States would accept a judgment made by shall be an increase in the permissible BAssl.
this body and our colleagues in the period of time from 2 to 7 days. Mr. BASS. Mr. President, first of all,
House. I think they would wonder what Mr. BAYH. Mr. President, I yield time I commend the Senator from Indi-
in the world was being perpetrated upon to ;he Senator from Arkansas [Mr. Mc- ana for the outstanding contribution
them if we brought in members of the CLt r.ANI. - he has made and the diligent effort he
electoral college whom they did not know Mr. McCLELLAN. Mr. President, I has Put forth in bringing this proposed
from Adam. shell vote for Senate Joint Resolution 1. constitutional amendment to the Sen-
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Do the I commend the Senator from Indiana ate.
Senators yield back the remainder of [Mr. BAYHI, the principal sponsor and I had planned to offer an amendment
their time? architect of this proposed constitutional to the proposed legislation, but I work
Mr. BAYH. I yield back the remainder amendment, for the dedicated work he under no misapprehension that my
of my time. hall done In this vitally important field. amendment would be accepted.
Mr. THURMOND. I yield back the One of the most important procedures I would call to the attention of the
remainder of my time. in our democracy is the orderly transi- Senate, however, some of the hazards in-
The PRESIDING OFFICER. All time tion of our Executive power, especially volved in the legislation now pending.
having been yielded back, the question in time of crisis. Our system of govern- In section 2 it is provided: -
is on agreeing to the amendment of the went is perhaps most susceptible to whenever there is a vacancy in the office
Senator from South Carolina. foices of disruption during a period of of the vacs President, the President shall
The amendment was rejected. Executive transition, and therefore we nominate a vice President who shall take
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alliesupon confirmatlop by a majority vote sidered it a slap in the face to take up Congress would dare to do would be to
of both Houses of Congress, any recommendation to . displace Mr. become involved. in a purely political
During our recent history I can recall Rayburn as the next possible President. move.
two occasions, one when we had a situa- The PRESIDING OFFICER. The 5 Mr. BASS. The election of the Presi-
tion of a president of one party having minutes of the Senator from Tennessee dent is just as political as anything can
One to that office from the Vice-Presi- have expired. be, under our American system. With
d"ency,' and? .another when., there was a Mr. BAYH. Mr. President, I yield 1 the next man in line sitting in the
vacancy in the Vice-Presidency of one additional minute to the Senator from Speaker's chair, this becomes a political
Party with both Houses of Congress un- Tennessee. bomb. We are very political in choosing
der the control of the, other Party. I re- Mr. BASS. I expect to vote for the our President. I hope that situation
fer to former President Harry Truman. Senate joint resolution. The Senator will always remain. I believe that it
It would be naive for us to argue that from Indiana is to be commended for should be that way. Under our system,
a Congress controlled by one party hav- bringing it up. I hope it will be passed, it must be that way.
ing In the Speaker's chair the No. 2 man but I hope it will be changed so that Mr. PASTORE. Mr. President, will
who would succeed tQ the Presidency in members of the President's party in the the Senator from Indiana yield for a
case of the death of the President, would Congress would vote for. the conflrma- question and an observation?
immediately act on, the recommendation tion. If that is not possible, I think we Mr. BAYH. I yield.
for a new Vice President by the Presi- should definitely Impose a time limit so Mr. PASTORE. I was looking at lines
dent then in power and in the opposite that Congress would be forced to act im- 22 to 24 on page 3 of the resolution, which
party. mediately on such a recommendation, read:
. We all remember another recent oc- and not have the situation that we have Thereupon congress shall immediately
casion In which, during 6 years of the had In the past few years. We have had proceed to describe the issue.
term of President Eisenhower, Congress this situation on three different occa-
was It shall transact no other business un-
Should controlled by the opposite party. sions. til this issue is decided. If business
talk-
Should the occasion have arisen at that So, Mr. President, I make these re- ttil the f we are Presidency, it
time when Congress would be called up- marks only to point out some of the ing about issue
would occur resto me toring that there should be
on to confirm the nomhiation of a Vice hazards we are facing in adopting the a mandate upon Congress that once such
President nominated by the President amendment. I hope that the Senator
of one party with an nverwnrlmtr,n ,s;_ from Indiana will civil rnnci9eror;...+ .., an issue came before It involving the
the opposite party, I could foresee the wnicn 1 nave made. ???1 ?????? ^??J ..a, ~.,e b'is5er V. bile
attempt to delay and stall the conflrma- Mr. PASTORE. Mr. President, will atomic bomb, Congress should not in-
lion, because, after all, the prize of 1600 the Senator yield at that point, dulge in any other business until it has
point?
maintain its Possess on by an pa facetious in asking this Mr. BAYH. This situation was dis-
We all i y any party. question, but
cussed at great length in the committee,
Mr. LONG to of Louisiana. Mr. does not the Senator from m Tennessee where two diametrically Presi- (Mr. Bnssl feel that or we should also take ake opposed points
dent, will the Senator yield? . into account rule XXII of the Senate of view were developed, one of which
Mr. BASS. I yield. Rules, that a band of Senators could ac- was that a time limit was needed, as the
Mr, LONG of Louisiana. To put the tually conduct a filibuster without any Senator from Tennessee specifies, and as
matter In context, if atichard.Nixon had limitation as to time for debate and could the Senator from Rhode Island urges
become, President and had.sent.to Con- defeat the very purpose of this constitu- immediacy; the other thought being that
gress the nomination to, make EVERETT tional amendment? we did not wish to be pushed to a close
Dtaxsn' Vice President, the Democrats Mr. BASS. The Senator is correct. I limitation, that Members of this body
in Congress would have been in a posi- did not point to the specific ways it might and Members of the House of Repre-
tion to say, "After all, EVERETT is a won- be stalled or delayed, but that is one of sentatives would not have sufficient time
derful fellow. I suppose it we have to the methods by which it could become to call the doctors, or members of the
have a, Republican Vice President, we one of the hazards involved in adopting Cabinet. If it is the wisdom of the Sen-
could not find a better man, . But, If we such an amendment. ator from Rhode Island, the Sen-
can take our time, perhaps Sam Rayburn Mr. BAYH. Mr. President, let me ator from Tennessee, and the major-
can become President."' Point out, in studying this situation care- ity of this body that they shall not dis-
Mr. SASS. The Sepatoris correct. fully, that the Senator from Tennessee cuss or-
Mr. LONG, of Louisiana. While the and the Senator from Rhode Island hit Mr. PASTORE. Transact any other
Senate would be cooperative, it would be upon only two of the many possibilities, business.
reluctant to give up such a great advo- If we are to expand our wildest dreams. Mr. BAYH. Transact any other busi-
cate of free, speech, and Senators in the The specific point to which the Sen- ness until this matter has been decided,
majority party might say, "We might ator from Tennessee refers, I should like If this ties us down, I shall be very happy
take our time about this matter. We to Point out, is very little different from to accept it, If the Senator will write it
have been working ith Sam Rayburn, the customary constitutional require- up-
and If in the course 'Of time something ments of advise and consent which the Mr. BASS. I would agree with the
should happen to the new President, we Senate has had over Executive appoint- Senator from Rhode Island. I believe
would not be unhappy to have Sam Ray- ments; and that during the Period to that Congress should meet in joint ses-
burn as our President." which the Senator referred, the Presi- sion and conduct no other business un-
Mr. BASS. The Senator is correct. dent was of one party and the Congress til this particular issue is satisfied. That
This situation occurred a few short years was of another, there was very little dis- Is only a thought on my part, but I be-
ago, when $aid Rayburn was Speaker of cussion and refusal on the part of the lieve that the suggestion of the Senator
the House. At. that time there was a legislative branch to accept the appoint- from Rhode Island is very good, but some
majority In the Democratic Party of 70 ments of the President. limit should be put on it in some way, to
in the House of Representatives,' with a Mr. BASS. I believe that we would make sure that stalling and delaying tac-
Republican President.. If Vice President have much more of a problem in con- tics cannot be carried out.
Nixon had succeeded to the office of the firming the recommendations of the Mr. ERVIN. Mr. President, will the
Presidency,,, his nomination, from my President if we knew-or if we refused to Senator from Indiana yield?
own ekgeriente in the House, would have confirm one of his recommendations- Mr. BAYH. I yield.
been delayed and stalled, because Mem- that one of our own people would go to Mr. ERVIN. Does not the Senator
bers of the House had a deep respect for the job next. That question is Involved. from Indiana agree with me that the
Sam Rayburn, They felt at that time Mr. BAYH. I have more faith in the word "immediately" does exactly that
that he was as qualified to succeed to the Congress acting in an emergency in the The words "immediately proceed" mean
-Presidency of the United States as any white heat of publicity, with the Ameri- that we are going to do that and nothing
man in America. They would have con- can people looking on. The last .thing will occur in between.
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Mr. BAYH. That is exactly my feel- Mr.'PASTORE. Mr. President, I ask this problem involvesthe Presidency of
ing, as the Senator from North Carolina that my amendment be read. the United States.
knows. Mr. BAYH. Mr. President, let me ask I would hope that we would not get
-,Does the Senator from North Carolina Senators to think about this issue for a ourselves "snafued" in a filibuster, in
object, if it clarifies the point to some momefit. As has just been pointed out which two people could say, "We want
Senators, to including the reference that to me by the Senator from Nebraska, the the Speaker of the House to be Presi-
Was made by the Senator from Rhode difficrlty of getting specific, precise lan- dent." We do not went them to be able
Island. The reason this was not tied guage immediately proceed to decide" to say, "We do not want the man whose
down more specifically- meant, to me, Just what we are trying to name has been submitted to be Presi-
Mr. ERVIN. I do not see the neces- accond$ish, with one exception, that if dent." I would hope that we would
sity for it, because that is what the word it is necessary, as the Senator points out, think too much of the country and the
"immediately" means to me. to declare war or some other great na- welfare of the country and the peace of
W. PASTORE. It does not mean tiona:. emergency should come upon us, the world to indulge in that kind of
that to me. . there can be little question in the minds antic.
Mr. BAYH. Mr. President, do I still of anyone that it is mandatory and that However, we ought to write this provi-
have the floor? we mast discuss and, decide. This, how- sion into law, because it is a fundamen-
,.The PRESIDING OFFICER. The ever, takes a little time. Does this pro- tal question, and weehould decide noth-
Senator from Indiana still has the floor. posal not preclude us from doing that? Ing until that question is decided.
Mr. BAYH. Let me suggest that the Mr PASTORE. The Senator from In- If the present language means that, I
Senator from Rhode Island and the Sen- diana `just finished saying that we must am satisfied. I have no pride of author-
ator'from North Carolina might discuss act a3 reasonable people. We are talk- ship. If it does not mean. that, it ought
this for a moment while I discuss the ing about restoring a President who is to be corrected.
pending amendment, which is a different the rightful occupant of 1600 Pennsyl- The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
amendment, if I may return to it. vania Avenue. In the meantime, sup- difficulty is that the. Senator's amend-
..The amendment suggested by the able pose we have a serious crisis on our ment is not at the desk.
Senator from Nebraska [Mr. HavsxA7, hands. We may have to go to war. Do Mr. PASTORE. I cannot write quite
raising the number of days from 2 to 7 we nit believe that Congress should act that fast. If I may have a moment, I
in which the Vice President and the immediately and decide no other busi- shall be glad to write it out.
Cabinet would have to deliberate on this ness antil we find out who the President Mr. HARRIS. If the Senator will yield
important decision, would makeit a bet- is going to be-that is, the man who will to me, he will have time to write it out.
W resolution, give time in which to have his finger on the trigger of the Mr. PASTORE. I yield.
study and review the evidence, and per- atomic bomb? That is precisely the Mr. HARRIS. Mr. President-
haps discuss it with the President. I question that I am raising. Naturally, Mr. BAYif. Mr. President, I should
shall be glad to accept the amendment. we a;'e talking about the President of the like to suggest that this is time which is
Mr. President, I yield back the re- United States, the one man who, above being consumed on the amendment to be
mainder of my time on the amendment. all others, is the only person who can offered by the Senator from Rhode Is-
Mr. HRUSEA. Mr. President, I yield decke whether a hydrogen or an atomic land, which he is in process of inscribing
back the remainder of my time on the bomb will be dropped. In his fine hand.
amendment. Wd are living in a sensitive and peril- Mr. PASTURE. l: agree that it will
.The PRESIDING OFFICER. All time ous world. All I am saying is that if be in a fine hand.
1s yielded back. The question is on this serious question ever comes before The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
agreeing to the amendment of the Sen- Con?'ress-and God forbid that it ever Chair so understands.
ator from Nebraska [Mr. HRUSKA]. will--but if for some reason we have Mr. HARRIS. The Senator from
The amendment was agreed to. a Pi esident who becomes incompetent Rhode Island has yielded to me.
Mr. PASTORE. Mr. President- and has been declared incompetent and Mr. PASTORE. I yield to the Senator
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The the 'lice President has taken over, and from Oklahoma.
Chair recognizes the Senator from Rhode later- the President comes forward and Mr. HARRIS. I should like to ask
Island [Mr. PASTORE]. says, "I am restored to competency and the distinguished Senator from Indiana
Mr. PASTORE. Mr. President, I move health. I wish my powers back, the a question! I have been discussing this
to amend Senate Joint Resolution 1 by powers that were given to me by the matter with a certain Senator, and he
adding on page 3, line 24, after the word people of the United States," I do not tells me that the word "immediately"
"issue," the following words: "and no wish to witness a filibuster. We could be deals with inability. He also tells me
other business shall be transacted until in a filibuster. That is what is wrong that if the amendment were adopted and
such issue is decided." with - the proposed legislation. We are the Vice President should become the
Mr. BASS. Mr. President, will the not getting to the root of the issue- President of the United States, the
Senator from Indiana yield? the mot of it being the rules of the Sen- Speaker of the House would no longer
-Mr. BAYH. I yield. ate. The Senate is still subject to the be next in line. Is that correct?
Mr. BASS. My point has been that rule:. of the Senate. Here we are. We Mr. BAYH. The Senator is correct.
the amendment in section 2 should be on are inet with a crisis. Mr. HARRIS. What happens, and
the election of a new Vice President. The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does who becomes President if no nomination
The Senator from Rhode Island is Pro- the Senator from Rhode Island yield has been confirmed?
ceeding on theissue of presidential in- himself some time? Mr. BAYH. The Speaker of the
ability. I am talking about the election Mr. PASTORE. I do. House.
of a new Vice President. Mr. HARRIS. Mr. President, will Mr HARRIS. I have just asked that
Mr. PASTORE. I am talking about the Senator yield to me? question of the Senator.
presidential inability. PASTORE. May I finish, please? Mr. BA:i[H. No; the Senator did not
Mr. BASS. What about the election Mr. ask me that question. He has asked if
of a new vice President? Ail that I am saying at this time is, if the nominee whose name is before Con-
Mr. PASTORE. The Senator can sub- the words "immediately proceed to de- gress becomes Vice President, then who
mit that amendment for himself. cide" mean exactly what I say they becomes President?
Mr. BASS. Mr. President, I offer an mean, then, of course, we are really Mr. HARRIS. No. If Congress does
amendment to section argrdng in a Paper bag. I do not think not confirm, if no nomination is before
the language is that explicit. I believe Congress, IS the Speaker of the House
Mr. PASTORE. Mr. President, will it should be clarified. What the Sena-
the Senator wait until my amendment tor 1 'om Indiana has brought to the floor still in line for the Presidency?
has been considered? is a masterful piece of work. However, Mr. BATH. Yes.
Mr. MANSFIELD. Put them both Jrr once this Issue comes before Congress. Mr. HARRIS. Therefore, in section 2
together in line A. these doors ought to be closed, and we of the Joint resolution there is no time
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The ought to stay here until we decide that limit.
'Senator from Rhode Island still has the question, even if we must sit around the Mr. BAYH. Is the Senator addressing
floor. clod[, or around the calendar, because me? Does the Senator wish me to give
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an answer to that question, if it is a "immediately" on page 3 of the report. sponsible in attempting to answer the
question? ,., I quote: question as promptly as we could.
Mr,HARRIS. Yes. Precedence for the use of the word "im- What we are talking about is a situ-
th Senator; the, djff ice between the may be if and din. hthe e usee of this same word of ation
a cruel national Senate, might find two
word,"ilnm@diately" in section 5 and the "immediately" In the 12th amendment to men contending that each is the Presi-
woxd,"immediately" In section 2. the constitution, dent of the United States.
Mr. HARRIS. There is no word "im- In the 12th amendment, as the Sena- Pray God that it never happens. If
mediately" In section 2. tor knows, in the event no candidate for the Senate should adopt the amendment
Mr. BAYH, I should like to explain President receives a majority of the elec- offered by the Senator from Rhode Is-
it to the Senator. toral votes, it is the responsibility of the land, under the pressure and heavy
Mr. HIARRIS. I should like to have House to decide who the President shall sense of responsibility that would be
an explanation. be; in the case of the Vice President, present, we would conduct no other busi-
Mr. BAYH. In section 5, which is be- it is the responsibility of the Senate. ness until we have answered th@ question
tug considered by the Senator from We should have some sense of urgency as to who the President is. I know the
Rhode Island [Mr, PASTORE), we deal in this situation and put all other things ingrained traditions of the Senate with
with the question: "Who is the President aside. respect to unlimited debate. But why
of the United States?" That can be Mr. PASTORE. Does not the Senator could we not add additionally the lan-
only one man, believe that it would take care of any guage-and I think a constitutional
In section 2 we afedealing with the ambiguity if we wrote that language into amendment would override the rules of
selection of a presidential replacement this provision? All that my amendment the Senate-that we shall vote not later
when a vacancy exists. provides is, "No other business shall be than 3 calendar days thereafter? If in
Mr. HARRIS, I understand. transacted until such issue Is decided." 72 hours we cannot determine who is
Mr. BAYH.. There Is a President who That is very clear. It is not inimical the President of the United States, the
is able to conduct business and to carry to any other provision of the Constitu- world will have passed us by, anyway.
on the affairs of our country. I should tion. It should be written in as a safe- Why do we not pin down precisely when
dislike to see everything that must be guard, so that there will be no question we shall vote on the question?
decided by Congress come to a stop in about it. If the Senator agrees with Mr. BAYH. Mr. President, I invite
the event.,Q4ngress becomes logjammed me that that is what we mean, we should the Senator from North Carolina [Mr.
on this question. It Is, conceivable that put such language In the provision. We ERVINI to speak to the specific point now
the example the Senator from Tennes- should not have the issue come up and being discussed, because it was debated
see cites could come to pass. However, have someone say, "Let us refer it to at great length in the committee.
I believe there Is very little likelihood committee," because the committee Mr. ERVIN. I think the answer to the
that It would, could hold hearings, and we would ac- question is that we are attempting to
However, we would have a President, if cept that as immediate consideration. deal with the question of the disability
Congress should become involved in a I want to keep Congress In continuous of the President. The problem may be
dispute which could not be solved; and session on this point. I want 100 Sena- one of mental disability, and evidence
by adding the word "immediately" we tors on the floor and 435 Representa- would have to be adduced. I presume
are saying that Congress cannot dis- tives on the floor in the House until they Congress could appoint a committee to
charge its duties while it is deciding on have decided this important question, be- take care of that question. The testi-
the Vice President. I- do not attach the cause it is vitally important. I say we mony might not be completed in 3, 4,
same importance to the decision with must not transact any other business or 5 days. I believe that is the answer.
respect to the Vice President as I do with until we have decided this question. Mr. HRUSKA. Mr. President, will the
respect to the President. Mr. BAYH. I believe the record of the Senator yield?
Mr. HARRIS. The Senator may not debate will make it abundantly clear that Mr. BAYH. I
attach the same Importance to it, but the Senator from Indiana agrees with from Nebraska. yield to the Senator
we would have the situation that was the Senator from Rhode Island as to the Mr. HRUSKA. If we get into the
described before if.we did not Impose a urgency that is involved. process of amending
time limit within which action must be i would t a p the conthe
taken. If we had a President of one language. I do prefer Ird not not to believe use there ere i is any is any tutional
Party oo-
Senate, we shall be we shall be t treading theding fl on danger-
o and a Congress of another party, more urgency in deciding this problem ous ground. I say that the proposed
we would still encourage stalling and than there is when the House and the amendment is difficult, and probably un-
delay, and we could wind up for a period Senate must decide the question of who necessary, although I shall not oppose
of 6 or 8 months or even 2 years in the President and Vice President shall the amendment for the purpose of tak-
which Congress would not have to act be under the terms of the 12th amend- ing it to conference so that the conferees
in this situation, and we would still be ment. may consider it.
in the same position of having the Speak- Mr. PASTORE. Will the Senator However, the subject was considered
er of the House the next man in line. agree to take the amendment to con- in the committee, as the chairman knows.
That situation should be changed. I ference? If it is necessary that it be Let us remember, that the issue is very
agree with the Senator that Congress eliminated in conference, I shall feel no serious. It could not be raised unless at
should elect the Vice President, I had offense. What harm can It do if we least six members of the Cabinet, who
hoped that it would be only by members recodify it? would have been appointed of the President's own party. However, Mr. HART. Mr. President, will the dent, should assert his inability, tthe ogether
I will accept his amendment. At the Senator yield? with the transmittal of a message by the
same time, I wish to warn him that if Mr. BAYH. I yield to the Senator Vice President, to the Congress.
he does not put some time limit in the from Michigan, who has the answer. We considered the idea of a filibuster
amendment as to when Congress shall Mr. HART. The Senator from Michi- in the committee. But the difficulty is in
act on it, we shall find ourselves in the gan believes that the answer of the Sen- respect to the period of time that would
same situation; and if we do nothing, ator from Indiana to what he has just be allowed. Should we provide for a
the Speaker of the House will be the next said would be "no." period of 10 days, 3 days, or 60 days?
man in line. If the ,majority party in Mr. BAYH, I am sorry; I did not hear Suppose the question should relate to
Congress is not the same as the party of what the Senator said. ident.
the President, no action will be taken. Mr. HART. The Senator from Rhode chexa inatio abioul be of the
cessary. An
-Mr. BAYH. Mr. President , I Yield Island read language which would re- atristsw ldn tables to Pst-
myself sufficient time to address myself quire thiatre President's not look able him to over into
to the amendment offered by the Sena- til we resolved the question, which in the say the Pman is insane over, and
tor from Rhode Island. case of sections 4 and 5 would be: "Who , "The ns man is insane," or, "the man
" They would nduc time in
I should like to say one word of ex- is the President of the United States?" which o.serve n
planation as to the Intent of the word I agree that we would, all be pretty re- Congress would needt me to, hear es
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reasons why the members of the cabinet sometimes a tendency to indulge in such by saying, "Write a prevision in the joint
had said, "Mr. President, you are not able things in moments of capriciousness- resolution to the effect that we could not
to resume the duties and powers of your we might face serious consequences. I transact any other business until the
office." That process would take time, say let us avoid that. Let us act cor- question discussed had been decided."
It was felt, in the committee, that the rectly. We desire to amend the Con- If that Is what the Senator desires,
Congress would rise to the importance stitutism. I say that when there is a what would be the harm?
and urgency of the task at hand. How question as to who should be the Presi- Several Senators addressed the Chair.
silly it would be of us to insert restricting dent of the United States, we should do The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
language to the effect that while we nothing else until we make a decision on Senator from Indiana has the floor.
might be waiting for the report of that question. Such a provision ought Mr. BAYH. Mr. President, I should
like to yield to the Senator from North
psychiatrists, we could transact no other to be in the law.
business. I believe that hat such action Mr. MANSFIELD. Mr. President, will Carolina.
would reflect upon the intelligence and the Senator yield? Mr. BASS. Mr. President, a parlia-
the good faith of the Congress and would Mr. BAYH. I yield to the Senator mentary inquiry.
not be advisable in a constitutional from Montana. The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does
amendment. Mr. MANSFIELD. It is my under- the Senator from Indiana yield for that
All of those points were taken into con- standing that both the Senator in charge purpose?
sideration before we agreed to leave the of the joint resolution and the ranking Mr. BAYH. I yield. for a parliamen-
provision as it is. minority member of the committee have tart' inquiry.
Mr. PASTORE. Mr. President, will stated that they will accept the amend- The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
the Senator yield? ment 3ffered by the Senator from Rhode Senator from Tennessee will state his
Mr. BAYH. I am happy to yield to Islam and take it to conference. parliamentary inquiry.
the Senator from Rhode Island. Mr. PASTORE. Oh, no. They have Mr. BASS. Does the amendment now
Mr,'PASTORE. Is the Senator from not said that yet. I am waiting for them pending, offered by the distinguished
Nebraska actually saying that the word to say it. Senator from Rhode island, include lan-
"immediately" means that other busi- Mr. HRUSKA. I have so indicated. guage that mentions section 2 of the
ness could be transacted in the mean- Mr. PASTORE. But the Senator in bill, which relates to the election of a new
time? - charge of the bill has not said that he Vice President?
Mr. HRUSKA. No. would accept it. The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
Mr. PASTORE. That Is what I Mr. HRUSKA. I would not join in clerk will state the amendment.
thought the Senator was saying. writirt in such an amendment, but I The Lsois*TIvE CLERK. On page 2,
Mr. HRUSKA. It means that the Con- have said that I would not object to the line 16, after "Congress," it is proposed
gress should address itself immediately amendment being accepted and taken to to add: "and no otherbusiness shall be
to the question which we are discussing. conference. I do say that the sense of transacted until such issue. is decided."
Meanwhile collateral questions might urger cy and importance which has been Mr. BASS. The Chair, then, would
arise; and while hearings were being descr.bed so eloquently by the Senator have to answer my inquiry in the affirms-
conducted on that question, why should from Rhode Island would seem to make tive; is that correct?
we tie our hands? An urgent situation it the type of problem to which the Con- The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
of national import might arise. gress svill react in a proper fashion. That Senator is correct. The Senator from
Mr. PASTORE. Why should we tie was tine considered judgment of the com- North Carolina has the floor. Has he
our hands? As I have said many times mittee after lengthy discussion. . I make yielded the floor?
before, we are living in a very sensitive that statement now because the subject Mr. ERVI N. Yes.
world. The only man in the United will le considered in conference, and the Mr. BART. Mr. President, on the
States under our law who has the power confc zees should have the reasons for the Pastore amendment, may I have a mo-
to drop the atom bomb is the President. committee's action. ment?
It is absolutely important to decide who Mi. BAYH. Mr. President, it seems to Mr. PASTORE. Mr. President, how
that President shall be. God forbid me tiat we are unanimous in our inten- much time have I remaining?
that we should ever be placed in such tion. Our dispute is with respect to what The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
a position. But I can conceive of words would adequately express our in- Senator from Rhode Island has 20 min-
nothing more important to the people of tention. utes remaining.
our country and the peace of the world Mr. PASTURE. That is correct. Mr. PASTORE. I yield to the Senator
than to determine the question as to who Mr, BAYH. I should like to ask the from Michigan as much time as he re
is the President of the United States. Senator from Rhode Island a question. quires.
We ought to do nothing until we deter- Does the Senator feel that we would de- Mr. HART. It was I who inquired
mine the answer to that question even if tide a different question in relation to why there ought not, in effect, be a time
it should mean that we would be re- secti)n 5 of Senate Joint Resolution 1 certain. I suggested that the action be
quired to remain in the Senate Chamber than would be decided under the pro- taken within 3 days. I heard the Sen-
around the clock. visions of the 12th amendment of the ator from Rhode Island reply that he
I do not agree that the measure ought Comtitution, in the event this body were would not go that far; that he could not
to be limited as to time because, after required to decide who the Vice Presi- see a capricious person holding the floor
all, I do not know what the situation dent would be, and the House were re- and talking about the color of the rose
would be. All I am saying is that while quirad to decide who the President would in Rhode Island, and so on. What con-
such an important question-the most be, where the use of the word "immedi- terns me---
important question that could beset the atel:~" is present? We have precedent Mr. PASTORE. No; I said I could see
people of our country-as determining for ;hat. It means "immediately," "get such a person.
who is the President in a moment of going," "dispense with everything else." Mr. HART. If the Senator could see
crisis is pending, we ought to determine Mr. PASTORE. I agreed with every- one, I should think it would be desirable
that and nothing else. thing that the Senator from Indiana said that some time limit be set. But even if
We should include a restriction in the until the Senator from Nebraska asked, he could not see such a person, I can
joint resolution that we would do noth- "Do you mean to say that while this mat- see-and :f ask Senators if they might
ing else but determine that question, and ter :.a being considered we would not be not see-35 sincere men in a time of
we would do so expeditiously. But if we able to transact any business?" intense danger and high emotional crisis
should permit Senators to talk about TSat question would imply, under the saying that a Vice President who would
what color the rose in the State of Rhode proposed language, that we could trans- not put missiles somewhere was a better
Island should be, or what flower we act other business. man than a President, who wanted to
should adopt as our national flower, and Mr. HRUSKA. We certainly could come back and would put missiles some-
have a morning hour to talk about pan- and we might want to. where. Such a debate could continue
saes in the spring while we are trying to Ni'. PASTURE. The Senator from for a long time. Would we be better off
determine who the President of the Rhc de Island Is trying to avoid that- leaving the question unresolved? Basi-
United States should be-and there is and I am being very explicit about It- catty, that is the problem.
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Mr. ERVIN. 'If We cannot trust mem- moot, and the question would be out of Mr. SALTONSTALL.
hers of the Senate. and House to exercise court." I hope we shall
intelligence and patriotism in a time of not adopt this amendment or any addi-
Mr. HART. Would not the Senate tional amendments of this character.
national crisis,, we might as well not do have a voice in that decision?
anything. We might as well not try to We are trying to amend the Constitution
Improvethe situation, I think we ofMth- AYH. would take two-thirds respect to an .
e Senate It and two-thirds of the Ifl an amendment is to beroffereduon the
shouldpassa constitutional amendment House to sustain the position of the Vice floor of the Senate, I believe the bill
and leave the action to be taken under President.
that constitutional amendment to those
I think the record is should be retto make a pcommittea e for a
who are in,of ice at the time such action that the Senator r from Rhode Island clear discussion mi s time, w m amendments are.
to and he of what Senate the and the House are
to indulge the assumption that those The record is written.
Persons will love their country as much Mr. PASTORE. Do I correctly under- a aodeclar at ion rules. If there
if some of be
we do; that they will not jeopardize stand that the Senator from Indiana will matter grave e importance war, ore home rher
as their country by holding up the consid- accept MY matter of rav importance should arise,
eration of matters of that kind. amendment? If we rules, have have any have an ono we can limit debate.
This is essentially a subject, as I said on Mr. that the BAYH. I Senator was from Rhode under the llIs and If majority embers the he great
before, which will require the takin of did Island we cnof the upon two-thirds the Senate,
testimony. We cannot i did not think it t w Ear - we can count upon s the
on the search for truth especiall time when Mr. PAST ORE. I did did not t say that at debate to impose cloture and thus close
Y all. I never said that. debate.
it concerns the intelligence of the Presi- Mr. BAYH. I see no objection to tak- I hope that we can have confidence
dent. ing the amendment with one proviso. I
The amendment offered by the Senator should like to drop the last word; I do that future members of Congress will
from Rhode island would not jeopardize not think it is necessary. exercise commonsense on a question of
the situation in that way. I see no ob- Mr. PASTORS. Very well; if the Sen- this character. I hope sincerely that
jectlon to his amendment. But to try ator does not believe it is necessary, I Rhode the a Island-and t of I the have Senator r from
to
set a time limit because. it is feared shall drop it. for senator Island-will
that the action of. those who would be Mr. BASS. Mr. President, what is the the adopted. Rhode Ilanro-
controlled by this condition would be situation now? not be adopted. I hope that the pro-
delaying, requires us,to assume that they Mr. BAYH. The amendment of the posed constitutional amendment will be
would not be patristic and intelligent Senator from Rhode Island would then passed as the committee has recom-
and would not act reasonably. read as follows: "and no other business mended it.
Mr. HART, The patriotism of the 35 shall be transacted until such issue is If there on any mend e
on of the not proposed
being ment Senators who would not wish to put mis- decided." agreedu o s al use whatever being
parilia-
siles down is not in question. Mr. R is correct, agreed mentary to, I Procedure use to send nd he pro-
the pro-
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Who Mr. BASS. Does that also apply to Posed constitutional n I can amendment
The time to the Senator from Michi- section 2 of the joint resolution? to cd committee for I 2 weks to back
gan? tis or 2 weeks to try to
Mr. BAYH, I will Mr. BAYH. ug it does not apply o
Mr, HART. improve this measure.
yield time. section 2. I thought I had made it abun- I hope that the amendment of the Sen-
Ipresume that the patri- dantly clear that we were dealing with ator from Rhode Island will be rejected,
ati heart the interests of their children is tive hate the Senate immediately i proceed ea ainat r rom M the ach sss ettsdwill if the
not in question. I Presume that 35 decide who the will be a motion tofrom send nd the measure e back to
Senators who would not be under a cloud necessary to have a ann able e bodied
n.
President bo Itdied will Press- committee, , I shall second the motion.
would also be patriotically motivated, ident. I do not believe we need to grind We are amending the Constitution of
and thus the debate could go on forever. everything to a halt to decide who the . I hope that no friv-
own Mr. language ERVIN. Has overcome not the the Senator' conclusion s Vice President is the United States
. Two different issues olous arguments were made by the Sen-
that the 35 Senators would not perform are involved. Mr. PASTORE. That is correct. ator from Rhode Island. All I say is
their duties but would determine the Mr. BAYH. I ask the Senator from mtht ane whos
physical state or mental the President of the United
state
President, instead of of the Tennessee: What is the worst thing that States shall be in a time of crisis-and
concerning
selves with where the them- could possibly happen if we did not in- I repeat that he is the man who, under
placed? missiles shall be elude the word "immediately" in see- our law, has the sole authority to drop
tion 2?
Mr. HART. I would hope that each of Mr. BASS. The worst thing that could upan atomi bomb-I think it is incumben
on thiscbody to transact no other busi-
us would attempt to be objective in his happen would be that Congress would ness until that issue is determined. That
review of the medical testimony. But I stall, delay, and use dilatory tactics. We is all the Senator from Rhode Island is
greatly fear that if there were a deep would end exactly where we are. If we doing. What is wrong with it, I ask the
conviction harbored by 35, there would do not accept this conclusion, we might Senator from Massachusetts?
be tragedy compounded, and the result as well strike out everything in the The argument is made that there
would be the bringing back of a man amendment and deal only with the dis- might be involved an issue that means a
whose policy would be to bring back mis- ability phase. If we are to deal with declaration of war. Does not the Sena-
siles that would create havoc, and we succession, we shall have to include tor think we ought to find out first who
would confuse medical testimony with some sort of requirement.
our obligation. bef President are the United States
not the Senator include we I think the roll should be called at some wo dh "imomedi tely' in this ection,t as who can drop the bomb. That is the man
precise time, and I suggest 3 days. he did with respect to disability? Mr. SALTONSTALL. Mr. President,
Mr. BAYH. The situation to which the Mr. BAYH. Because I do not attach will the Senator yield? He has asked a
Senator from Michigan refers is one the same importance to the choosing of question, Will he yield so that I may
that has not gone unnoticed by the Sena- a Vice President as I do the choosing a give my answer?
tor from Indiana. Before this circum- President. If the Senator from Tof en- Mr. PASTORE. I yield.
stance arose, the Vice President, a ma- nessee desires to propose such an amend- Mr. SALTONSTALL. My answer is
jority of the President's Cabinet, and meet, I suggest that he offer it separately. simple. This is a very important sec-
two-thirds of the House of Representa- Mr. BASS, I shall offer a separate tion of our fundamental law. We can-
tives, which does not have unlimited de- amendment. not On this
bate, would have to support the conten- Mr. BAYH. I suggest that he do so. in the Senate Chamber pursuant amendment
tion of the Vice President. As soon as Mr, SALTONSTALL. Mr. President, amendment written in long hand. to I do
one less than two-thirds of the House will the senator from Indiana yield? not think the amendment is .
cast their votes, the issue would become Mr. BAYH. , I Yield, necessary
No. 33-11 We can depend upon the commonsense
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of our successors in this body if the be reLerred back to the committee for o" " add the thergbusiness shall be following:
acted until
question arises. But if the majority of further study. 11 ed. this body feels that we should have Mr. BAYH. Mr. President, I yield to such Issue is dIDeiNG OFFICER. Will the
something of this kind, the proposed the Senator from Maryland. The constitutional amendment should go Mr, TYDINGS. Mr. President, my re- Senator from Indiana yield to the Sen-
back to the committee and be carefully maork8eadrebayddreesse natorefrom amendment amMr. BAYMichigan?
I have time. My own
worded and worked out. p
Mr. PASTORE. I do not object to Island. I have listened with interest to time is running very short. I yield to
that. But we have a perfect right to the eloquence of the Senator. I point the Senator from Michigan.
debate these questions. That is all we out that the Subcommittee on Constitu- Mr. HART. I wish simply to express
are doing. We have a perfect right to tion and Bylaws of the Committee on a concern that with the remarks of the r set forth our arguments. That is all the . udiciary, and, n fact, the a Tire Stain. en toI from aasryla and, I mnow ember a ter-
we are doing. Committee on the Judiciary,
If the Senator from Massachusetts is the very point which the Senator from Judiciary Committee, I recall the discus-
so sensitive that, because this is a pro- Rhode Island raises. sion, but this point never occurred to me
posed constitutional amendment, we We felt that the language "immedi- until tonight. The Senator speaks of
majorityeof he President's Cabinet, n
which has to do with the selec- a the
cannot even a logical argument, ately," no matter howa logical it is, what are t tulton already
we doing here? We might as well take tion of the President and the Vice their honor, must take their position. by whom what the committee
produces, close our President-is
Wo also i considered language
considerable do anything appointed
safeguard the ?sita ton
say, T on blindfolds, i." or r wear blinkers, num'i.)er of amendments similar to those when the President is disabled and the
and put
and era, "That
se. Is it." g Improve the Vice President acts, and then fires the
We are T a ter in charge The y related the a time of 2, time ~10, 15 aor Cabinet, and then puts his own Cabinet
the jointrso The Senator already admitted 60 days. But we considered the entire in? How do we respond to that prob-
tat there a some substance on has to only argu- the argucontext of section 5. Section 5 estab- lem?
matthis ban made. that procedure which would be Mr. BAYH. Mr. President, this is
ment that is that the . His only awith followed after two circumstances take another problem, if the Senator from
tent is nt l g joint s exactly with what place. Michigan cares to discuss it. It is a good
odoes exactly tlt trouble In the first place, the President, or Vice question. We have thought about it,
the present nnuad The on
I am at the to minority leader disagrees President, and a majority of the mem- We are dealing with this one amendment.
that the g
is
I am trying to do is bers of the President's own Cabinet May we dispose of it, and then discuss
with him. straighten itlout by Inserting ng certain win: d have to place their career, reputa- another question?
lion and their sacred honor at stake, and Mr. HART. Reluctantly, I have in-
laMr. McCLELLAN. Mr: President publicly write and declare that the Pres- dicated that there are unanswered ques-
Mr. enter y inquiry. , a dent was not fit or able to serve as tions. Perhaps the night is not going
prrll President: to be long enough.
The Pt PRESIDING OFFICER. The Mr. HART. Mr. President, will the Mr. BAYH. Mr. President, a moment
Senator will state it. Senator yield at that point? ago, hoping we could accomplish what
mi that the proposed Mr. President, as- Mr. TYDINGS. I would prefer to fin- we wanted to accomplish, I said I was
amen that tard constitutional
inquire ish iefore yielding. willing to accept the Senator's amend-
amendment were adopted, d, may I inquit S,eondly, the President would then as- ment. , I -acted hastily.
whether the swoud constitute ahe Senator trans- s- sert himself and send a declaration to I feel wisdom requires us to proceed
actin acacy wbuld Congress. Then his Vice President and on the measure presented by the commit-
heo4oherusiness? a majority of the members of his Cabi- tee, as the committee carefully studied
T
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The net would again, in a sense, have to place the measure. I cannot see a more firm
Chair informs the Senator that that an their sacred honor and reputations at determination made by the Congress
a not i Paofismenanc inquiry. That is an stake that they felt that the President, than the determination which it makes
nMr. of nsubstance. President, the man who had selected them, was not under the 12th amendment, in which
Ms. swearing of a Senator traverti- abbe to hold down the office of President. it is provided that in the event neither
the swearing in by a the Senate? ?re- Yhen the question would go to the candidate for the Presidency receives a
lion of business the Sen Congress of the United States. We felt majority of the electoral votes, Congress
The PRESIDING OFFICER. It Is. out, that the language "Immediately" used in shall immediately decide the issue. We
MrMr. President, that if Then I there point a the article XII of the Constitution would say, in the event that it cannot be de-
vacancy in tthat nwhen this is a be the best language. If we put in lan- termined whether the President is fable
ase, and t one Senator gunge such as that used by the Senator to carry on his duties, Congress shall
at th and a State had d only one for had. fro 31 Rhode Island, which would restrict, immediately decide the: issue.
but a second r e be tie up, and stop the Government, in ef- Frankly, this question has been dis-
b the pappointed en
sworn, , that St ids ready t to b its y feel, from operating, it might compound cussed in committee. It has been dis-
oornthat l rep would be be in this denied body its an already difficult situation. cussed on the public platform. I do not
dururinng ig that ona timerep. resenttat I -oppose the amendment' of the Sena- think we can come closer to resolving
d tor from Rhode Island for the reason this question than by using the termi-
ay be o e the one situation, and therearths.t I think his amendment, rather than nology in the joint resolution before us.
So ther is may be
t to transact in Which some t doing what he would want to do; namely, If the Senator from Rhode island
Senate ought to transact other improve the situation, might actually wishes to proceed, wisdom would cause
Mr
ot business. compound a bad situation and tie up the me, with great reluctance, to vote against
Mr. HRUSKA. Mr. President, will the Government worse than it already was. his amendment. 1 think it is wrong. I
Senator yield? If such a situation were to occur, it think the wording in the joint resolution
Mr. BAYH. I Yield, weuld be difficult enough. is tight. The urgency is clear. The rec-
Maother ssitu be Mr. President,
in the would 'Che word "immediately," already in ord is written. No Member of this body
not another arose between he time the event a the Constitution, Is sufficient, and it does not share the feeling that this is a
electionn frCo rys and t ou iht to be retained. matter which the U.S. Senate should not
be the
that at The PRESIDING OFFICER. The decide immediately.
Congress were to meet? Congress would time
Congress here to House to organize and neat that Chair would like to have the amendment Mr. BASS. Mr. President, will the
issas f or the of nsinesd; There restated for clarification of the RECORD. Senator yield?
would transaction bectnanyone qualified uln. Then The L&CisLA'rrvE CLERx. On page 3, Mr. BAYH. Mr. President, is the
wdr not
this be cusiness until other to s lire 24, after the word "issue," add the Senator from Tennessee going to pose a
wash business folowing: "and no other business shall question?
Mr. McCLELLAN. Mr. President, If be transacted until such issue 1s decided: ' Mr. BASS. Yes.
the amendment is accepted, I hope it will On page 2, line 16, after the word Mr. BAYH. I yield.
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MT..B.4 $. . 14k, a assume that the There is a President involved in the but we are using the same language as
SenatooTbp]ieves, the word "immediately" language which the Senator from Rhode the language in section 2, which the com-
as adequa N en the section so far as dis- Island wishes to amend. The Senator mittee itself wrote into section 5.
?biiity, is comcerned, Would the Senator from Tennessee wants to amend the pro- This would mean that Congress would
be wiliirig to agcep.t One single word, vision relating to the nomination of the have to act with some dispatch.
"immediately" in segtion2, so the Con- Vice President. He says he is afraid that, The only thing it does is add one word
gress would act forthwith on the selec- when the Vice President's office is va- to the resolution, which means that Con-
tion of the new Vice President? cant, Members of the House who are gress would act immediately on the
Mr. BAYH. No, I would not. anxious to get their Speaker in the Presi- recommendation of the President to con-
Mr. BASS. Would the Senator ex- dency will "sit still" on the nomination firm anew Vice President.
plain what his objection would be? until the President dies. I can see nothing wrong with asking
Mr. BAYS. I hare explained it. I God help this Nation if we ever get a Congress to act immediately upon recom-
will try again. In section 5 we are ques- House of Representatives, or a Senate, mendation of the President, because if
tioning the disability of the President, which will wait for a President to die so we were in a situation in which one party
the man who has his."finger on the but- someone whom they love more than their in power would be stalling and delaying
ton." This Wile needs to be decided !in- country will succeed to the Presidency. the recommendations of the party in
mediately. But in section 2 we are try- That does not apply to this section. Power in the White House, we would be
Ing to decide who the Vice President shall It is based on the idea that either the In the same situation in which we are
be. House or the Senate, when there is a now.
The Senator from Tennessee has can- vacancy in the Vice-Presidency, is going Mr. HRUSKA. Mr. President, will the
co0ted a situation that. he thinks might to pray for the President to the so some- Senator from Indiana yield me 2
foreseeably exist. I asked him to state body they love more than they love their minutes?
a while ago the worst possible thing that country will succeed to the Presidency. Mr. BAYH. Mr. President, I am glad
could happen, and the worst possible The PRESIDING OFFICER. The time to yield 2 minutes to the Senator from
,thing is to leave it where it is now. Why of the Senator has expired. Nebraska.
tie up Congress to correct a system that Mr. BASS. Mr. President, I have an The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
has worked for 170 years? We are not amendment at the desk. I 6ffer the Senator from Nebraska is recognized for
looking for delays. amendment. 2 minutes.
Mr. BASS. It has pot worked for 176 Mr. BAYH. Mr. President, a point of Mr. HRUSKA. Mr. President, let me
years. This. amendment passed only 16 parliamentary inquiry, make a brief observation. We did con-
years ago. The amendment providing The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Sider the word "immediately" in section
that the Speaker of the House of Repre- Senator will state his point of parlia- 5 In that same context.
sentatives shall succeed to the Presi- mentary inquiry. What does the word "immediately"
deny was adopted only 16 years ago. Mr. BAYH. There is an amendment mean?
Mr. BAYH, That is a provision which pending, which has been thoroughly de- Does it mean that there will be no
goes into effect only when there is a dual bated, by the Senator from Rhode Is- hearings? Does it mean that there will
tragedy, when both the President and land. I wish to inquire as to what dis- be no debate? Does it mean that there
Vice President have dropped out of the position we can make of that. will be no consideration of any kind to
picture. The PRESIDING OFFICER. The determine what kind of person the nomi-
Mr. BASS. But not at the same time. Senator from Tennessee has offered an nee is?
The Vice President can the 3 years later. amendment to the amendment offered by Those are questions which have al-
Mr. BAYH. During the same term of the Senator. from Rhode Island. ready been considered; and I earnestly
Office, Mr. BAYH. Mr. President, may I recommend that the amendment be
Mr. BASS. The Senator does not ad- yield myself 30 seconds to ask a question defeated.
mat that a matter of time is involved, of the Senator from Tennessee? Because Mr. BAYH. Mr. President, I thank the
in that case, but he insists that Congress of the complexity of the issue, will the Senator from Nebraska and the Senator
shall act without delaying tactics in the Senator from Tennessee permit us to get from North Carolina who have ade-
other matter. I see absolutely laCongress tely nothing one question voted on, and then he can quately expressed my views. I have tried
wrong in Providing offer his amendment, or as m
act upon the nomination without delay. ments as he wants to? any amend- earlier to do so. I suggest that the Sen-
act there is anything wrong In that, I do Mr. BASS. I am going to resolve the ate r. B vSte.
not see where It Is. I do not se anything
wrong In providing
mention by offering a substitute amend- the4rema remainder of my time.t I am ready
that shall act with dispatch on the recom- Mr. BAYH. Very well. to vote.
mendation of the President, belonging The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. Mox- The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
to one party, when the Congress may 0P- TOYA in the chair). The clerk will re- question is on agreeing to the substitute
pose the recoplnrendation because it is port the amendment. amendment of the Senator from Tennes-
of the opposite party. All the amend- The LEGISLATIVE CLERK. In lieu of the see [Mr. BASSI.
ment does is add one word-"imme- language on page 2, line 16, as offered The amendment in the nature of a
diately. by the Senator from Rhode Island [Mr. substitute was rejected.
Mr. BAYH. No, that is not all there PAETORE], insert the word "immediately." The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
is to it. The Senator wants section 2 Mr. BASS. Mr. President- question is on agreeing to the substitute
to read as the Senator from Rhode Is-
land wants section 5 to read. _,The PRESIDING OFFICER. The amendment of the Senator from Rhode
cmuciu, uric omy +caw oe 'eau.
Mr. BAYH. Mr. President, I yield 2 change in the joint resolution would be The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
minutes on the bill to the Senator from one word. Only one word would be added clerk will state the substitute amend-
North Carolina [Mr. E6vrwl: to the joint resolution. If the Senator ment.
Mr. ERVIN. Mr. President, I wish to from Indiana will check section 2, only The LEGISLATIVE CLERK. On page 2,
reply to the ,Senator -from Tennessee. one word, the word "immediately," which line 16, and on page 3, line 24, after the
Section 2 Of t112 resolution does not deal is the word he used in his own section- word "issue," Insert the following: "and
with a vacancy in the office of the Presi- in section 5-would be added to section no other business shall be transacted un-
dent; it deals only with a vacancy in the 2. This would merely mean that if we til such issue is decided."
office of the.. Vice President: had a situation in which there was a The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
Whenever thereto a vacancy in the office vacancy in the office of the Vice Presi- question is on agreeing to the substitute
of the Vice President, the President shall dent and the President submitted a nom- amendment of the Senator from Rhode
nominate a Vice President who Shall take ination, Congress would be required to Island.
office up-;; eon4rmatignby a majority vote act with some dispatch. There would be
The substitute amendment was re-
of bothBouae6 of Copgress. no time limit, no given number of days, iecte4
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 ~ved For Release 2003/1 Q e2 c t463 OQ GQ5059(PIWS 7 February 19
The, PRESIDING OFFICER. The Mr HOLLAND. I am in thorough it not confine the statutory authority of
joint resolution is open to further aocori with what is intended by the pro- Congress to the two cases which I have
amendment. posed constitutional amendment. There outlined?
- Mr. BAYH. Mr . President- is onc; thing about the debate which has Mr. BAYH. Yes. This does not alter
The PRESIDING OFFICER. If there disturbed me. The proposed amend- it. The Senator is correct.
are no furthei amendments, the ques- ment does not specifically replace or ape- Mr. HOLLAND. I beg the Senator's
tion is on the engrossment of the amend- cificady amend any part of the present Pardon.
melts and the third reading of the joint Constitution. It does by implication, it Mr. BAYH. The Senator is correct.
resolution. seen!; to me, amend certain portions of Mr. HOLLAND. I thank the Senator.
The amendments were ordered to be article II, section 1, clause 5. The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does
engrossed, and the joint resolution to be I have been disturbed by what seems to the Senator yield back his time?
read a third time. be the assumption by some Senators that Mr. HART. Mr. President, may I ask
The joint resolution was read the third the present statute providing for the sue- a few questions, which may help all of
time Cession to the Presidency would still be in us in understanding this subject?
Mr. HART. Mr. President force, Mr. BAYH. I yield.
The PRESIDING OFFICER, Who Lo)king at these two matters hurried- Mr. HART. The Senator has just inab
dealin yields time to the Senator from Mich- Constitu ion. What Is proposed would with the mpairm of of theaPresident sg
Span? be a new section of the Constitution, and as not to be able to make or communicate
The PRE RSIDIN
Mr. B I ING President OnatCER-. The wouli only by implication change the a decision as to his own competency. Ghats recognizes the Senator from In- t; that It would seem to Is It clear that this means far more than
that that t Part of of the Present Constitu- disagreement with respect to a judg-
Mr. BAYH. I yield myself such time tion which allows the Congress by statute ment he may make, a decision he may inc
and I as I may require from the time on the Pto doclare what res:.dent in the mcase shall the then act as mke
ability, with
mute it not by based uponna
bill
Thd PRESIDING OFFICER. The the President t and nd the Vice Vice President, diana agrees with the Senator from
jar, BAYH. Y wish explain and could apply only in two cases.
clarify something which has been Otae would be a situation in which the Michigan that we are not dealing with
brought to my attention by the Senator President and Vice President were both an unpopular decision that must be made
from New York, which has been dis- kille 3 in a common disaster. The second in time of trial and which might ren-opular. thsseS at sr from length previously with coma so quickly following the death of talking aboutt a Pre: ident who is un ble
Senator Senator from Miand. and the the another that there would have been no to Perform the powers and duties of
the RECORD Rhode ow Island permitted for the functioning of his office.
bill, t I as the fully Sun- Con?ress HART. This may have been clar-
a tor tc charge of sh the ow that
of the fed in the report, and. I plead guilty
awr ara of of thcomplexity- of the e terms m men t, , if s f it under should the become Proposed a part amend-
the -ms
Constitution. to not having read it very carefully.
the word "inability are " and th and feel "ua- I am asking the Senator in charge of With reference to the heads of the
the word used in and te word 5u of of the Joint resolution if that is also his un- executive departments, is it clear that
ahie," as used in sections 4 and den tending as to the only fields In which we are talking about those whom we re-
Anent oficle , Which President's faculties, an impair- , ean Congress would be left with statutory gard as comprising the Cabinet, as re-
he of is able either to make to or comean authority to Provide for the succession. ferred to in 5 U.S.C. 1 and 2?
that ca is unable either his own Vs. BAYH. The Senator is correct; Mr. BAYH. The Senator is correct,
dmnnienc his decisions to own I ask unanimous consent that there
like f and th is the way I would posed amend- may be included in the RECORD at this
I should the powers
duties of his office. execute
of the e Consti- point, to further describe the contents
ECOaa to include that t as my definition N.Y. n merit, if it HOLLAND. became a The part t of proposed
RECORD of his the
of, the words "inability" and "unable." tution, would reduce the present power of 5 U.S.C. 2, a report that was given to
.Mr. PASTORE. Mr. President, will of Congress to the two situations which the junior. Senator from Indiana by the
I have outlined in my question. Library of Congress, which sets this mat-
the pooMr?Senator from Indiana yield at that Mr. BAYH. As the Senator from ter out specifically.
-A Mr. HART. That would be helpful.
Mr, BAYH. PI ASTORE. Fll: cull knows, there is to a whether There being no objection, the report
Mr, y the Senator - The statement moh of power d r to legislate at whether to be printed in the REc-
in st has as d to egie by, t mt was ordered
pa hearing from Indiana, on. Congress amount
:
page e 20 the 20 of the hearings: ute' in this field at the present ttime. . ORD, as
Let me intervene from momentarily. I am ber. Th original succession statute sP. was THE follows LE vISLATIVE LIBRARY OF CONGRE66,
REFERENCE SERVICE,
tarn the Senator f from Nebrbraska remembers passed in n 179 1t92; and d the Congress which Washington, D.C., February 18, 1965.
this the record s to that its intention type of passed that statute contained Several To: Ron. BIRCH BnYN, Chairman, Senate
ina lily, it is to Is deal with any type of members of the e Constitutional Conven- Subcommittee onConstitutional Amend-
one nay, whetter It i from traveling from tioa. Their interpretation of article ticle II, ments.
one nation to another, a breakdown of com. section 1, should be considered in light From: American Law Division.
thing that I capture bl the enemy, it any-
thing that Is Imaginable. The h off to of the succession statute which they Subject: feee Imade departments.
perform the powers and duties of f the e office, pursed, which dealt only with succession. Reference Is to your Inquiry of Feb-uary for any reason is inability under the terms The law would, apply only when there rut ngs17,
some 1965, r precede uesting, gong other
that we are discussing. weS two deaths, as the Senator from of "executive department."
- In other words, what the Senator from Fl(nda [Mr. HOLLAND] has described. As we informed you during our telephone
Indiana has just stated is a clarification In other words, they must surely have conversav on of above date, the phrase is
of that statement? - interpreted clause 5, to which the Sena- defined ip 5 U.S.C. 2 -which provides: "The
Mr. BAYH. The Senator is correct tot refers, reading "Congress may by law word 'department' when used alone in this
.Mr. MANSFIELD. Also an indication provide for the case of the removal, chapter, and chapters 2-11 of this title,
er the executive departments
death, resignation, or inability both of means one of
the intention of the Senate in consid- enumerated in section 1 of this title."
;ration of the he joint resolution. tho President and of the Vice President," Section 1 referred to above reads as follows:
Air. BAYH. Either unable to make or to mean that that was a limitation on "The provisions of this title shall apply to
communicate his decisions as to his own the Congress and that both of those con- - the following executive departments:
competency to execute the powers and tingencies had to come to pass before it "First the Department of State.
co.lld enact legislation. "Second, the Department of Defense.
duties of his office. "Third, the Department of the Treasury.
1yIr: , HOLLAND., Mr. President, will Mr. HOLLAND. But, if I may restate "Fourth, the Department of Justice.
the Senor from Indiana yield for a Mr question, in the event the Proposed "Fifth, the Post Office Department.
question? an lendment should be adopted and be- "Sixth; the Department of the Interior.
34r.13AYH. I yield. cone a part of the Constitution, would "seventh, the Department of Agriculture.
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 Approved For Release 2003/10/a-*M0IAWMO01AbTI 3201
',Eighth, the Department of Commerce, the. Constitution. Portions of the opinion national bank appointed by the Comptroller
Ninths the jepartment of Labor, dealing with the later consideration follow: of the Currency, who was the chief officer
`Tenth, the Department of Health, Educe- As the defendant here was not appointed of a bureau of the Treasury Department
tion, and Welfarq." , by the President or by a court of law, it re- charged with the execution of all laws passed
The phrase also makes an appearance In mains to inquire if the Commissioner of Pen- by Congress relating to the regulation and
the Constitution, Article 2 motion 2, clause slons, by whom he was appointed, is the head the issue of a national curreycy secured
1 reads, In relevant part, as follows; "He of a department, within the meanng of the by U.S. bonds, was appointed by the
[President] may require the opinion, in writ- Constitution, as is argued by the counsel for head of a department within the meaning of
ing of the principal officer In_ eeeis of the plaintiffs. the Constitution, as the Comptroller p
exeeccutive de artiuents, upon any subject re- "The instrument was intended to inau u- eer
]sting to the duties Of their respective rate a new s stem of g formed this, as well as all other duties, , under
offices." Y government, and the the general direction of the secretary of the
departments to which it referred were not Treasury,
No relevant annotations appear to the then in existence. The clause we have cited We are sending herewith duplicate copies
foregoing section. IS to be fonod in the
(1939) an action brought by an enlisted man
In the U.S, Navy to recover reenlistment. al-
lowanc,-thep,IlstrJct Court for the Eastern
District of New .York examined -petitioner's
status or purposes of determining whether
it was without jurisdiction under the Tucker
Act, 28C. ? 41 (20)(1939). The court
stated that the expression "heads of depart-
ments" comprehended the members of the
President's Cabinet, and did not include a
mere bureau head:
"Admittedly, the plaintiff was not ap-
pointed by the President or by a court of
law and it rema#ns only to consider whether
he was appointed by a head of a department.
A long line of cases establishes that the term
'Head of a Department' as used in this clause
of the Constitution means one of the mem-
bers of the President's Cabinet. It does. not
include amere bureau head. United States
V. Germaine, 99 U.S. 508, 25 L. Ed, 482; Bur-
nap V. United Slates,252 U.S. 512, 40 S. Ct.
874, 64 L. Ed. 692; Steele V. United States No.
2, 261 U.S. 505, 45 S. Ct. 417, 69 L, Ed. 761.
Thus In Morrison V. United States, 40 F. 2d
286, D.C.S.D.N.Y., a petty officer not ap
pointed by the President or a cabinet officer
was held not to be an officer of the United
States and therefore capable of cuing in this
Court, whereas In Foshay v. United States, 54
F. 2d 668, D.C.S.D,N.Y?_a clerk appointed
by the Postmaster General, the head of.. an
executive department, was held to be an
officer of the United States and Incapable of
suing for pay in this court. Oswald v. United
States, 9 Cir., 98 F. 2d 10, similarly held a
court reporter, appointed by the court, under
a disability to sue for salary in the district
Court under the provisions of the Tucker Act.
Numerous other cases such as Scully v. Unit-
ed States, 193 F, 185, 187, C.C.D. Nev? have
defined 'officer of the United States' in terms
of the constitutional meaning of the records,
See, also, United States v. Van Wert, D.C,
Iowa, 195 F. 974; United States v. Brent, D.C.
Iowa, 195 P. 980; McGrath v. United States,
2 Cir., 275 F. 294j
The holding was reafiirrhed in Surowitz v.
United States, 80 F. Sapp. 716, 718-719 (1948)
wherein the Court declared;
"This doesnotmean that the.courts have
always applied one test of an officer under the
criminal law and another under the civil law.
The difference resides in the application,
The test itself has been fairly uniform;
only he is an oTcer who Is an officer in the
constitutional sense, that is (so far as is here
reference to the subdivision of the anu man
power of copies of the United States Code. See in
the executive into departments, for the more particular 5 U.S.C. 1, 2, 133z-3, 133z-5; the
convenient exercise of that power. One of Executive order (No. 10495) following 5
the definitions of the word given by Worces- U.S.C. 6.
ter is, 'a part or division of the executive RAYMOND J. CELADA,
government, as the Department of State, or Legislative Attorney.
of the Treasury.' Congress recognized this
in the act creating these subdivisions of the Mr. HART. Mr. President, we are
executive branch by giving to each of them talking now, not about the usual situa-
the name of a department. Here we have tion, but one which we hope will never
the Secretary of State, who Is by law the head occur. The language is clear, but I am
of the Department of State, the Departments afraid that there is no conversation, in
of War, Interior, Treasury, and so forth. And terms of an exchange, even with the
by one of the latest of these statutes reorga_
nizing the Attorney General's office and plac- manager of the bill, to show that we can
Ing it on the basis of the others, it is called avoid what all of us want to avoid; name-
the Department of Justice. The association ly, a usurping Vice President who con-
of the words 'heads of departments' with the solidates his position by firing the
President and the courts of law strongly im- Cabinet.
plies that something different is meant from Is there any way in which we can, in
the inferior commissioners and bureau Of. this exchange on the floor, help to avoid
ficers, who are themselves the mere aids and
subordinates of the heads of the depart- that situation, or make very clear that
ments, Such, also, has been the practice, for this is not the grant that we make?
it is very well understood that the appoint- Mr. BAYH. The Senator from Mich-
ments of the thousands of clerks In the igan knows full well the advice and con-
Departments of the Treasury, Interior, and sent authority of the Senate So far as any
the others, are made by the heads of those Cabinet members are concerned.
departments, and not by the heads of the Mr. HART. Yes; I do.
bureaus In those departments.
"So in this same section of the Constitu- Mr. BAYH. He also knows of the two-
tion it is said that the President may require thirds provision, which would be required
the opinion in writing of the principal officer to sustain the position of the Vice Presi-
in each of the executive departments, relat- dent and his new Cabinet if he were to
ing to the duties of their respective offices. take this most Unfortunate step.
"The word 'department,' in both these in- The committee in its hearings dis-
stances, clearly means' the same thing, and cussed this subject at some length, be-
the principal officer in the one case is the
equivalent of the head of department In the cause we must tread a very narrow line,
oth@r. on one side of which we do not want a
"While it has been the custom of the Presi- usurping Vice President to fire the
dent to require these opinions from the Sec_ Cabinet, while on the other side we do
retaries of State, the Treasury, of War, Navy, not want a Vice President who Is acting'
and so forth, and his consultation with them in good cause, say, for example, in a 3-
as members of his Cabinet has been habitual,
we are not aware of any instance in which year term of office, being unable to re-
such written opinion has been officially re- appoint Cabinet members who may have
quired of the head of any of the bureaus, or died or resigned.
of any commissioner or auditor in these de- Mr. HART. What about interim ap-
partments." pointments to the Cabinet? Is there not
In United States v. Hartwell, 73 US. [6 some place short of tying the hands of
Wall.] 393 (1868), the Supreme Court held a 3-year Incumbent Vice President as
that one appointed under an act of Congress President and leaving wide open this
authorizing an assistant treasurer, with the
approbation of the Secretary of the Treasury, possibility? Is it not our responsibility
to appoint a specified member of clerks, is at at least to establish the check that a
appointed by the head of a department with- Vice President who becomes President
in the meanin
of arti
l
I
g
c
e
I, ? 2. Germaine, temporarily at least should not be able
icy of law by the head of a department to a supra, the Court held that it was being con- to appoint a Cabinet majority through
post created by law. The head of a depart- sistent with the Hartwell since "it is clearly interim appointments?
ment has been authoritatively defined to stated and relied on that Hartwell's appoint- _ Mr. BAYH. I reiterate what I said be-
mean a member of the President's Cabinet. ment was approved by the Assistant Secre- fore. Before the position of the Vice
United states v. Smith, supra; United States tary of the Treasury as acting head of that
v. Germaine, supra; see Burnap v. United Department, and he was therefore, an officer President could be sustained even in an
States, 190, 252 U.S. 512, 515, 40 S. Ct. 374,434 of the United States." interim position, the President would
L Ed. 692." . In Price V. Abbott, 17 F. 500 (1883) the have the opportunity, under the provi-
In United States v. Gernnatne, 99 U.S. 508 Court held that appointments made by the Sion of section 5, to take this to Congress.
(1879), the Supreme Court was.called upon Comptroller of the Currency, or receivers of Unless the Vice President could be sus-
to determine whether, a surgeon appointed by national banks, as provided by acts of Con- tained by a two-thirds vote, he wouldbe
the Commissioner of.Pensions was an officer gress, are to be presumed to be made with "Out."
and therefore amenable to prosecution under the concurrence or approval of the Secretary Mr. HART. I believe I have voiced the
a criminal statute punishing extortion by of the Treasury, and are made by the head
an "officer of the United States." The Court of the department within the meaning of apprehension, which perhaps now more
held that. defendant was not an officer and the Constitution. broadly is established than when we were
the Qommieaioner of, Pensions was not the In Frelinghuysen V. Baldwin, 12 F: 395 discussing the subject in committee. I
head of a department within the meaning of (1882) it was. held that a receiver of a believe it is essentially our responsibility
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 AgWed For Release 2003/10/fD3QXTJ~ 6TBtJD 0ei $b February 19
in this situation, where we talk about and the President of the Senate his writ- Mr. LAUSCHE. That is, if and when
Cabinet appointees over whom we have ten declaration that he is unable to dis- Congress should feel that it should step
some authority to suggest against in- charge his office. Is that correct? in under the language which provides
Perim appointees. Ought we not at least blr. BAYH. That is one. that such other body as Congress by law
to go that far? Mr. LAUSCHE. The second is, when- may provide, the 'Vice President would
Mr. HTWSKA. I yield myself 3 min- eve- the Vice President and a majority not act, but the President would continue
utes. of the principal officers of the executive to act, although he had been charged by
That question was considered in com- departments transmit to the President of the Congress and charged by the Vice
mittee. We discussed the possibility of the Senate air~d~ the Speaker of the House President with being incapacitated.
the Vice President dispensing with the of Representatives their written declara- Mr. BASH. That is correct; and the
members of the Cabinet and appointing tiolt that the President is unable to dis- number of votes prescribed would over-
a Cabinet ofhis own choosing. Does not charge his duties. ride the veto, or the some number that
the real protection against that kind of Mr. BAYH. The Senator is correct. would support the Vice President.
situation lie in the good judgment of Air. LAUSCHE. That must be con- Mr. ALLOTT. Mr. President, I am
Congress? If there were an overreach- flrried by a two-thirds vote in the Sen- fully aware of the lateness of theihour,
ing by him which would be that trans- ate? but I do not believe the questions asked
parent, the good judgment of the House Mr. BAYH. The President would bring by the distinguished Senator from Ohio
and of the Senate would assert itself. the issue and Congress would decide it. included one that I would like to ask.
Congress would- say, "We will have no Ths President would have to say "You Section 4 contains a provision that
part with that kind of usurpation and are wrong." the Vice President shall assume the
grasping for power." Mr. LAUSCHE. I have a final ques- powers and duties of the office as Acting
On the contrary, if by a two-thirds tioii, and I ask it to elucidate what the President under certain conditions.
vote Congress agreed with him, that Senator from Michigan has been ask- Section,) states:
would be the democratic process in ac-. ing, Whenever the President transmits to the
tion. That is the fashion in which it In an instance in which the incapacity President of the Senate and the Speaker of
should be done. The real, ultimate pro-- of the President would be announced by the House of Representatives his written
tection is In the good judgment of the the Cabinet and the Vice President, is it declaration that no inability exists, he shall
Members of Congress by a two-thirds or is it not a fact that the President resume the powers and duties of his office
a unless the Vice President., with the written
majority.
Cabinet, concurrence of a majority of the principal
HI fieto continue until such inuch troffiincee as with the full
Mr. . HART. should like to make one t to o Veet, officers of the executive department or such
further comment on that. the Vice President, and a two-thirds vote other body as Congress may by Law provide,
The PRESII3INGOFFICER. Does the of -; he Congress had established that the transmits within 2 days to the Congress his
Senator from Indiana yield to the Sen.- President was incapable of performing written declaration that the President is
atorfrom Michigan? his job? unable to discharge the powers and duties
Mr. BAYH. I yield. Mr. BAYH. No, that is not correct. of his Office-
Mr. HART. Is it the understanding Th at question got us into the very touchy There would be a legal acting
of the Senate, in taking this action, that question as to who should act during the president.
the Under Secretary, in the event of it qustionable period, the President or the --- Mr. BAYH. That is correct.
vacancy inthe office of Secretary, shall Vice President. It was the judgment of Mr. ALLOT'r. The President would
be empowered as would the Secretary the committee and I concur in that then send to Congress his written decla-
himself, in participating in the decision judgment-that whenever the Vice Pres- ration. Who would be President dur-
with respect to ability or disability? ident and a majority of the Cabinet, ing the 7 days?
Mr. BAYH. It is the opinion of the which would have been appointed by the Mr. BAYH. The Vice President, the
junior Senator from Indiana that it is Prsaident himself, should become suffi- Acting President. I thank the Senator
not. ciently concerned that, in the glare of from Nebraska for his suggestion. It
Mr. HART. This would reduce it by the publicity which would be attendant makes a considerable difference. As I
as many Under Secretaries as may be upin something of the nature that we explained, we wrote in that language
involved in the situation with respect are,., discussing, they would make the dec- for two basic reasons. First, whenever
to those who would participate in the laration that there was sufficient doubt, the Vice President arid a majority of
Cabinet decision. Is that correct? thn Vice President would assume the the Cabinet of the President who is
Mr. BAYH. I ask the Senator from powers and duties of the office while the about to be deposed feel that there is
Michigan-and I know he Is asking pen- issue was being tried. sufficient cause that, in the great heat
etrating questions which are very valu- Another reason for the Proposal was attendant publicitywise, they would
able in making this record clear, and I that we desired to try to prevent a back- make such a declaration, there would be a
also know that a scintilla of doubt will and-forth ping-pong sort of situation in serious enough doubt about the mental
remain-but I ask the Senator to look at w14ch the Vice President and the Cabinet capacity-and usually it would be the
the history, in which the role of the Vice we uld make a declaration. The Presi- mental capacity of the President-that
President has been quite, to the contrary. de. it might be out and the Vice President the decision would be made, the Vice
He has been reluctant to move, al- wculd be in. Then the issue would go to president would assume the powers and
though urged to do so, particularly In Congress and Congress might make a duties as Acting President while the de-
the case of the Garfield situation, when declaration that the Vice President cislon was being made by Congress.
all of his Cabinet urged him. He is a sh raid be out and the President In. Un- Such a provision would cut down the
human being, with a conscience and a de, the proposal there would be fewer number of times the power of the down the
Pres-
heart and a soul, and, as the Senator triinsfers of power and more continuity, ideney wouldd change. We desire to keep
from North Carolina has said, his politi- wletch I feel should be basic. it to a win c m. The President would
cal future would be ruined if he at- gr. LAUSCHE. I should like to ask leave the office and the Vice President
tempted to usurp the office. another question. Suppose that the Vice, would take over, and then the Vice Pres-
Mr. MANSk'iELD Mr. President, I President should declare that the Presi- ident would leave and the President
ask for the yeas and nays on the pas. dent is incapacitated, a minority of the might resume his office, and that would
sage of the youth resolution. m,pmbers of the Cabinet should say that go on down the line.
The yeas and nays were ordered. he is incapacitated, and a majority
Mr. LAUSCHE. Mr. President, will should say that he is not. Under the Mr. ALLOTT. To get to the question
the Senator yield? jo: nt resolution Congress would proceed in another way, so the issue will be clear,
Mr, BATH. I yield. to establish its views and would either if a Vice President had assumed the
Mr. LAUSCHE. Am I correct in my eo pflrm or reject the findings of the Cab- duties effecting President, and the elect-
understanding that there are two situ- inst and the Vice President. Would the ed President then decided that he wished
ations in which there would be a change President whose incapacity had been to state that there is no inability any
in the Executive Office. of the Nation: ebgrged have the right to a veto? longer, it would be 7 days before he could
First, whenever the President on his own Mr. BAtH. Yes, the other body, as possibly resume the office of President.
transmits to the Speaker of the Rouse C(hgress may by law prescribe. Mr. BAtH. That Is correct.
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 Ap~Pd&d For Release 2003/10/2120$Bf[44SE=6004-Qr`'E 3203
Mr. ALLOTT. There is no question desirable that the matter be examined the Senator from Wisconsin [Mr. PROx-
about that. That is the intent, with a sympathetic eye toward the Presi- MIRE], the Senator from Connecticut
Mr. BAYS, That is the intent. I dent who, after all, is the choice of the [Mr, RIBICOFFI, the Senator from Geor-
should like to clarify the record on one electorate. gia [Mr. RUSSELL], the Senator from
point. The question which the Senator It is apparent that Senate Joint Reso- Florida [Mr. SMATHERS], the Senator
from Colorado has posed about requiring lution 1 does have aspects which alleviate from Missouri [Mr. SYMINGTON], and the
a mandatory 7 days would only apply if the dangers attendant to a crisis in presi- Senator from New Jersey [Mr. WIL-
,there should be a contest under section 5. dential inability. Nevertheless, it is felt LIAMS] would each vote "yea."
The provision would not prevent the Vice by this member of the committee that Mr. DIRKSEN. I announce that the
President and the President agreeing to caution and restraint will be demanded Senators from Kentucky [Mr. CooPER
a lesser period of time, should this inability measure be called and Mr. MORTON], the Senator from
Mr. HRUSKA, Mr. President, agree- into application. New York [Mr. JAVITS], the Senator
ments devised by the President and his A time does arrive, however, when we from Idaho [Mr. JORDAN] and the Sen-
Vice President in past administrations must fill the vacuum. The points which ator from Iowa [Mr. MILLER] are neces-
to cope with an inability crisis are not I have emphasized and previously in- sarily absent.
satisfactory solutions. Recent history sisted upon are important; but having The Senator from California [Mr.
has also made us very much aware of the a solution at this point is more than im- KUCHEL] is absent on official business.
need for filling the office of Vice Presi- portant, it Is urgent. For this reason, I The Senator from Colorado [Mr.
dent when a vacancy arises, support Senate Joint Resolution 1 and DoMINIcIC] and the Senator from Cali-
It is abundantly clear that, rather than urge its passage. I hope that it will be fornia [Mr. MURPHY] are detained on
continue these informal agreements, the given expeditious approval by the other official business.
only sound approach is the adoption of a body and early ratification by the re- If present and voting, the Senator
constitutional amendment, quired number of States, from Kentucky [Mr. COOPER], the Sena-
The hearings, which have been held on Mr. BAYH. Mr. President, I yield tor from Colorado [Mr. DoMINicxl, the
this important subject in recent years back the remainder of my time. Senator from New York [Mr. JAVITS1,
and in which this Senator has had the Mr. HRUSKA. I yield back the re- the Senator from Idaho [Mr. JORDAN],
opportunity to participate, have led me mainder of my time. the Senator from California [Mr.
to prefer a different approach than the The PRESIDING OFFICER. All time KUcHELI, the Senator from Iowa [Mr,
present one. As in other legislative mat- having been yielded back, the question is, MILLER], the Senator from Kentucky
ters, the finished product requires the re- Shall the joint resolution pass? [Mr. MORTON] and the Senator from
flnement of individual preferences. In On this question the yeas and nays California [Mr. MURPHY] would each
the spirit of this simple reality, I shall have been ordered, and the clerk will call - vote "yea."
support the proposed amendment, It is the roll. The yeas and nays resulted-yeas 72,
my earnest hope that the Congress and The legislative clerk called the roll. nays 0, as follows;
the State legislatures will approve and Mr. LONG of Louisiana. I announce [No. 24 Leg.]
ratify it promptly, that the Senator from New Mexico [Mr..
There are two major reasons for my ANDERSON], the Senator from Nevada YEAS-72
acceptance of the proposed amendment. [Mr. BIBLE], the Senator from Penn- AAuo e Harris Monroney
Montoya
The first is the urgent need for a solu- Sylvania [Mr. CLARK], the Senator from Bartlett Hart Morse
tion. Differences of opinion in Congress Arkansas [Mr. FtJLBRIGHT], the Senator Hass Hartke Mundt
have deprived us of a solution for far too from Tennessee [Mr. GORE], the Senator Bayh Hayden Pastore
long. It is time that these constitutional from Alaska [Mr. GRUENING], the Sena- Boggs tt Hill enlooper PPeeli
shortcomings be met, tor from Utah [Mr. Moss], the Senator Brewster Holland Prouty
Secondly, the proposed language ap- from Oregon [Mrs. NEUBERGER], the Sen- Burdick Hruaka Randolph
Preaches the product which would have ator from Wisconsin [Mr. PROXMIRE], Byrd, W. Va. Jackson - Saltton tall
resulted under the proposal which I had the Senator from Florida [Mr. SMATH- Cannon Kennedy, N.Y. Scott
urged, so that this amendment is ac- ERs], and the Senator from New Jersey Case son Longc Mo. Smite n
ceptable as proposed and amended. [Mr. WILLIAMS] are absent on official Church Long, La. Sparkman
The refinements that have been made business. Cotton Magnuson Steanis
on the original language of Senate Joint I also announce that the Senator from Curtis Manefeld Talmadge
Resolution 1 will clarify the detailed pro- Georgia [Mr. RUSSELL] is absent because Doodden nMcClei an TThurmond
ower
cedure to be followed in a case of dfs- of illness. Douglas McGee Tydings
ability. I further announce that the Senator Eastland McGovern wuliams, Del.
Ellender McIntyre Yarborough
The role of Congress is narrow, It is from South Carolina [Mr. JOHNSTON], Ervin McNamara Young, N. Dak.
as an appeal open to the President from the Senator from North Carolina [Mr. Fannin Metcalf Young, Ohio
the decision of the Vice President and JORDAN], the Senator from Massachu- NAYS--O
the members of the Cabinet., It will be setts [Mr. KENNEDY], the Senator from NOT VOTING-28
brought into the matter only in those Minnesota [Mr. MONDALEI, the Senator
limited circumstances where the Vice from Maine [Mr. MUSKIEJ, the Senator Bible Bnaerson nun, Ida Neubn
President, with a majority of the , Mass.
part- from Wisconsin [Mr. NELSON], the Sen- Clark Kennedy, Mass, Proxmire
cipal officers of the executive depart- ator from Connecticut [Mr. RlBrcoFFl, Cooper MMulct Ribicoff
ments, and the President disagree on the and the Senator from Missouri [Mr. Dominick Miller Russell
ussell
Fulbrlght Mondale Smatbers
question of restored ability. It is im- SYMINGTON] are necessarily absent. Gore Morton Symington
portant to note that Congress will not I further announce that, if present and Greening Mars Williams, N.J.
its
have the power to initiate a challenge of voting, the Senator from New Mexico Jourphy
the President's ability. [Mr. ANDERSON], the Senator from Ne- Johnston hnsMuskie
The procedure by which Congress vada [Mr. BIBLE], the Senator from The PRESIDING OFFICER(Mr. MoN-TOYA shall act is properly left to later deter- Pennsylvania [Mr. CLARK], the Senator en in the chair), Two-thirds of the
mination within rules of each branch from Arkansas [Mr. FULBRIGHTI, the Senators present having voted in the af-
thereof. A point of possible conflict is Senator from Tennessee [Mr. GORE], the firmative, the joint resolution (S.J. Res.
resolved in the understanding that Con- Senator from Alaska [Mr. GRUENINGI, 1) is passed.
gress shall apt as separate bodies and the Senator from South Carolina [Mr. Mr. BAYH. Mr. President, I move
within their respective rules. JOHNSTON], the Senator from North that the Senate reconsider the vote by
The language that "Congress shall im- Carolina [Mr. JORDAN], the Senator from which the Joint resolution was passed,
mediately proceed to decide the issue" Massachusetts [Mr. KENNEDY], the Sen- Mr. HRUSIKA. I move to lay that
leaves to Congress the determination of ator from Minnesota [Mr. MONDALE I, the motion on the table,
what, in light of the circumstances then Senator from Utah [Mr. Moss], the Sen- The motion to lay on the table was
existing, must be examined in deciding ator from Maine [Mr. MUSICIE], the Sen- agreed to.
the issue. Thus, the matter will be -ex- ator from Wisconsin [Mr. NELSON], the Mr. MAGNUSON. Mr. President,
amined on the evidence available, It Is Senator from Oregon [Mrs. NEUBERGER] I had asked the Senator from
Approved For Release 2003/10/22 CIA-RDP67B00446R000500170020-7
 pved For Release 2003/1 QF 7~gOpE4 g500y$ q~I
Indiana to yield for 10 seconds, but I
did not pursue my request because I
wanted to have the joint resolution
passed promptly. But I believe It is
apropos now, after all the discussion
today, that the Senate should wish the
President and Vice President good luck
and good health.
FORMATION OF BUSINESS ADVIS-
ORY COMMITTEE ON TRADE WITH
EASTERN EUROPE
Mr. MAGNUSON. Mr. President, all
of us who view expanded trade as a sen-
sitive tool for piercing the Iron Curtain,
welcome President Johnson's formation
of a business advisory committee on
trade with Eastern Europe, announced
yesterday. I am particularly pleased
that this committee, in charting now
paths to Increased peaceful trade with
Russia and the other European bloc
countries, will work in close cooperation
with our dynamic new Secretary of Com-
merce, John T. Connor.
It is significant that the President an-
nounced his action during the throbbing
crisis in Vietnam, for it should serve as a
healthy reminder to thosewho see East-
West trade in unthinking, cold war terms,
that our object in expanding trade is not
sentimental but the hardheaded pursuit
of our own economic and strategic self-
interest.
Less than 3 weeks ago. I Introduced in
the Senate, Senate Joint Resolution 36,
to establish a high level permanent Coun-
cil for Expanded Trade, composed of
leading private citizens from the busi-
ness, labor and academic communities to
advise the Congress and the President on
a continuing basis of "the extent to which
and the methods by which trade between
the United States and countries within
the Communist bloc can profitably be
expanded in furtherance of the national
interest "
In the past, business leaders and Gov-
ernment officials have each tended to let
the other take the lead in urging inno-
vations in our trade policies toward the
bloc countries. As a result, businessmen
in general have remained confused and
uncertain of the guidelines of national
trade policy, while the Government has
been unable to grasp the commercial
realities involved in the pursuit of ex-
panded trade with the East.
.What should be a great national de-
bate has too often been obscured by
myth and misconception. Before we will
be able to establish a rational exchange
of goods and services with the bloc coun-
tries, we must establish a rational ma-
chinery for the exchange of ideas, ex-
perience, and fact between our own busi-
ness and Government.
turn, Snight be informed of Government
policies on such trade.
Tha development and cultivation of
trade relationships is a continuing proc-
ess which will undoubtedly take many
years: Problems which now exist, and
which may in the future arise, will require
continuing scrutiny and attention.
Fbl' these reasons, while I whole-
heariedly endorse the President's forma-
tion of his study committee, I believe
that Congress has an obligation to place
the 'effort to expand East-West trade on
a lr bre permanent, institutionalized
basis and so I urge that Congress sup-
port President Johnson's goal of an ac-
tive East-United States trade policy by
enac'3ng Senate Joint Resolution 36.
AVA7.,ABILITY OF FINE HARDWOOD
LOGS FOR VENEER
Ml'. BAYH. Mr. President, last eve-
ning Senators HARTKE and JAv1Ts and
I discussed the critical problem of ex-
cessiire cutting of black walnut logs
which will occur due to the removal of
an e:cport control order by the Secretary
of Commerce.
In - our discussions we suggested that
the source of supply of replacement
wood was virtually nonexistent in the
United States and was, in fact, in short I hesitate to delve Into the subject of the
supply worldwide. supply of other fine American hardwoods,
TO fully describe the critical proper- since many of you are much better informed
tiomi of our veneer quality log supply I of this than I am. However, this is how we
would like to have Inserted in the RECORD sum up then situation for veneer logs of the
a speech by the Director of the Forest more important species.
Proc ucts Division of the Department of Hard maple: Grown in the Northeast, Lake
Commerce, Mr. Thomas C. Mason, en- States, and Appalachian areas (as well as
title! "World Availability of Fine Hard- Canada), supply very limited and declining.
imports from Canada restricted.
wood Logs for Face Veneer." This Yellow birch: Grown in the Northeast and
speech analyzes the total world Supply Lake States, supply virtually exhausted and
of walnut logs and other fine hardwoods logs being Imported from Canada whenever
and emphasizes the dimensions of the permitted by Canadian restrictions. Birch
shin tage we face. veneer Is imported from Canada and also
Mils, speech by a respected Depart- birch plywood from Canada, Finland, and
ment of Commerce official again under- Japan.
Oak: Grown in Eastern United States,
scores the folly of removing the export supply of veneer quality logs low, competi.
quota and I commend it to my colleagues tion for floret trees With the bourbon stave
attention, Industry.
Tiere being no objection, the speech Cherry: Of veneer quality, limited pretty
was ordered to be printed in the RECORD, much to parts of Pennsylvania, supply very
as follows: short.
Elm: Grown In Eastern United States,
WORLD AVAILA OF FINE HARDWOOD LOGS
TOR
veneer-quality supply short, declining due
FOR FACE VENTER to inroads of Dutch elm disease introduced
(Spioch by Thomas C. Mason, Director, For- in burl elm logs imported from Europe for
es6Products Division, BDSA, at the annual furniture veneer manufacture.
spring meeting of the Hardwood Plywood Pecan: Crown In the southern gulf area.
Institute luncheon, Mar. 5, 1964, Las Vegas, veneer-quality supply short, reportedly being
Nov.) supplemented by substitution of other hick-
SLACK WALNUT ories which are deficient in supply of quality
Coincidence of growing domestic and for- trees,
eign demands for American black walnut In a broad way, the current Forest Service
vem:er loge has, since 1958, resulted In execs- updating of the Timber Resources Review,
live drain on the resource. which was based primarily on 1952 data, con.
Aeof the end of 1958, the resource was able firms these observations. Mr. Edward P. Cliff,
to laovide about 18 million board feet of Chief of the Forest Service, speaking at the
vener logs per year. Fifth American Forest Congress in October
D lmestic use increased from about 12 mil- 1963, stated In part:
The President's committee represents lion board feet in 1958 to 191/2 million in "The cut of timber substantially exceeds
an exceedingly important first step to- 1961i and continued at a high level In 1963. growth in the larger tree diameters where
ward the establishment of such machin- Reports increased from 2r/4 million board quality is concentrated, both for softwoods
cry. But the exploration of expanded feet in 1958 to 10ys million in 1962, and well and hardwoods. Most of the cutting is
trade with the Communist bloc should over 14 million in 1963. limited to preferred species. As a result of
not be a one-shot affair. The Sitter- In 1962, domestic use and exports con- these trends, less than 10 percent of the
brood were nearly twice the Indicated growth total hardwood inventory, for example, Is
change of ideas on East-West trade be- rep rrted late In 1963 by the Forest Service. now in trees above 15 inches in diameter In
tween business and Government must be, F r those of you who may be Interested in those species having established markets.
placed on a permanent basis so that the detidls, I have copies of two small charts. (This includes select red and white oak,
President and Congress might not only, Those compare annual growth and drain of yellow birch, hard maple, cottonwood, sweet
be Informed of trade developments with van eer-quality black walnut: in the one case, gum, yellow poplar, ash, black cherry, and of use Apthe Ea d ilor e ease f~~ ~fffi ~r' been00446RO005001allowed 71nut.) Moreover, only a portion of this
February 19
continue; In the other, the trends anticipated
as a result of the conservation program.
In 1963, estimated domestic consumption
plus exports were at an annual rate mate-
rially exceeding twice the Indicated growth.
If this rate had been permitted to continue,
it would have taken less than 10 years to
exhaust all the growing capital of veneer-
quality black walnut trees down to 15 Inches
in diameter breast high. All the larger trees
available for cutting, from which the high-
quality veneer logs come, would have been
exhausted much sooner that that. After
about 10 years, the only supply of walnut
veneer logs would have come from what Is
known in , forestry terminology as in
growth in the veneer tree size eiass; In
other words, trees which reach 15 Inches In
diameter breast high during the year. The
Indicated volume of hr-growth Is less than
10 million board feet, In fact, less than half
of current usage alone.
The pinch in walnut veneer log supply is
already here. It is reflected in an Increase
of 75 percent in the average price of walnut
veneer logs cut between 1954 and 1962. It Is
reflected In usage of a much lower quality
and smaller else of logs for veneer purposes.
For example, in 1962 the walnut logs cut Into
veneer by one large producer averaged only
87 board feet per log, against a normal aver-
age well above 100. It Is reflected in lower
quality and Increased prices of walnut veneer,
and in the greater quantity of veneer that
must now be bought by users to make the
same quantity of their finished product.