BARBARISM IN VIETNAM

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP67B00446R000300180016-3
• Release Decision: RIFPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 22
• Document Creation Date: December 19, 2016
• Document Release Date: May 19, 2005
• Sequence Number: 16
• Publication Date: June 30, 1965
• Content Type: OPEN

June 30, 1965 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD -- SENATE 14775
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using methods ''remmiscent of fitter's and Taratanyika, and Tunisia. and Al- should entrust to the United Nations
hangmen," while the French delegatk eerie, are free to organize and harbor such peacekeeping functions as have
was moved to propose that the United guerrilla armies for operations elsewhere been delegated to It. ?
?
Nations should increase the size of its in Africa. It seems to me that if we had to keep
observer team and expand its function. If the United Nations General Assem- the peace an organization of nations
It is my understanding that the Amer-- bly is no longer prepared to condemn that really intended to do just that, and
lean delegates to the United Nations were such blatant use of force or such out- let the United Nations be the debating
extremely indignant over the one-sided spoken threats of force as Khrushcheyes society which it has always tended to be,
report sent back to the United Nations by Berlin ultimatum, then I say that the we might more,. effectively achieve our
its observer, team. United Nations has lost a large part of purposes.
In the light of the facts I have here the justification for its existence. The Organization of American States
detailed, I am more than ever convinced If the Charter prohibits intervention in is an organization of states with similar
that United Nations Intervention in the domestic matters, the General Assembly goals and philosophies. There are not
Dominican Republic has already done must abide by this clause, too. the same problems in that organization
grave harm and that its continued I believe that we must make every ef- as there are in the United Nations. The
presence there is bound to have a further fort to save the United Nations as an OAS wishes to keep the peace, to see
unsettling effect. area of contact between the Communist that each neighbor lives within its own
I hope that our delegates to the United world, the free world, and the uncom- boundaries. It wants no aggression. and
Nations will do everything in their power mated nations; as a forum front which will brook no aggression. We can in
to resist any expansion of authority and we can plead the cause of freedom and good conscience have the OAS send a
numbers on the part of the United Na- solicit the support of the world commun- commander to command our forces in
tions team ity for the objectives of our foreign poi- the Dominican Republic, knowing that
elm WAY OUT icy; as a medium for the conciliation of the organization has the sane purpose
I would be willing to go along with the disputes; as a vehicle for cooperative that we have. We want to have peace.
most generous measures to help bail the nonpolitical activities like the World We do not want to have overthrown any
United Nations out of its financial crisis. Health Organization; as an organization peaceful government, particularly a gov-
But I consider it necessary to state for whose functions may be progressively ernment that follows the will of its
the record that I am becoming increas-
enlarged if the world situation improves, people.
ingly fed up with the double standard of
The United Nations can be saved, and The Senator has made a good argil-
behavior that leads the United Nations should be saved. ment, namely that the United Nations
to intervene in situations where effective
The United Nations will not be saved will have to do a better job of accom-
peacekeeping machinery already exists if we continue to ascribe to it virtues plishing the purposes of the charter, or
and where its own presence can do noth-
which it cannot possibly possess and as- we shall have to ftral something to take
Ing but harm, while it falls to intervene
sign to it executive tasks that it is func- its place in cariing out its functions.
or even to take notice of clear-cut eases tionally incapable of fulfilling, and let the Orf;anIZai.1011 exist as a
of military aggression involving the mm- It will not be saved if we continue to debating society, where we can bring
tions of either the Communist bloc or the sweep its misdemeanors and weaknesses together all those who do not agree, and
Afro-Asian bloc, under the rug instead of airing them let them dettate and debate, without
I am certain that this concern is shared frankly. conclusion. Its place may have to be
by the overwhelming majority of the But above all, the United Nations will taken by an ?rent:I:tale-in that can settle
American people, not be saved unless we are prepared to disputes amomt nations, an organization
This is the real crisis of the United Na- provide the leadership for an all-out that can arrive at a consensus and then
tions, and not the financial crisis. eanipalen to return to the principles get nations to acre,- to that decision. I
If the United Nations is again to be- enunciated in the United Nations Char- regret to say that the United Nations
come an instrument of law and a force ter, and to give these principles the force has at times proved d.sappointing.
for peace, many things must be done.
of law in the relations between nations. Mr. DODD. lam gra ter ul for the Sen-
In addition to creating some kind of This, as I see it, is the prime task that ator's comments. I am sure that he and
mechanism that can protect and improve confronts us. I and the vast majority of the people
the United Nations by submitting its op- Mr. LONG of Louisiana. Mr. Presi- want the United Nations to succeed.
era,tions to periodic scrutiny, it is e.ssen-
dent, will the Senator yield? Our point is that the way to bring that
tial that we ourselves and the member
Mr. DODD. I yield. about Is to have it operate as it was in-
nations who share our values face up
Mr. LONG of Louisiana. It was My tended to operate, by not going beyond
to
the disastrous erosion of the United Na- honor to represent the United States as its charter, and by not failing to live up
tions Charter in recent years and embark a delegate to the United Nations in this to the requirements of its charter. For
on a campaign for a return to the Char-
session. I cannot disagree with what the example, the U.N. should have acted in
ter.
Senator is saying today. Frankly?I ray the case of Yemen. When Nasser in-
If the Charter calls for "respect for the his to
t as a Senator; I have no privilege to vaded Yemen with 50,000 troops. the
obligations arising from treaties." the say it as a member of the U.S. delega- United Nations did not show any interest.
unilateral repudiation of any treaty.by a Lion?there is a serious doubt in my own Goa is another case.
member nation should at the very least mind that the United Nations can sue- In addition, the UN. must learn that
call for the unanimous censure of the ceed in its purposes as a peacekeeping it has no right to go into a sovereign
organization so long as it has so many
General Assembly. country and interfere in matters which
If the Charter calls for the "self-de- elements in it that are really there for must be settled domestically. That is the
tile purpose of keeping it from working.
termination of peoples," the United lesson of the Congo.
Nations should use it One can say anything he wishes, the s moral authority I am erateful to the Senator from
fact remains that the Communist nations
impartially to promote self-determina- Louisiana for his Ion.
well as for those Asian and African peo-
do not serve the purpose of the United
tion for the captive peoples of Europe as
Nations. The U.N. was formed as a
pies still living under colonial rule. group of nations Joining to work together B.ARBAI VIETNAM
for peace, to preserve the peace of the
If the Charter calls upon all members
to "refrain in their international rela-
world, and provide peaceful means of
tions from the threat or use of force," solving international crises.
this must. not be construed as applying There is a growing doubt in this Sen-
only to the Western nations and not to ator's mind as to whether the organize-
the nations of the Communist bloc or lion can be as effective a peacekeeping
Afro-Asian bloc, organization of free people as it would be
If it were limited to nations that shared
It must not be construed as meaning
that India is free to invade Goa. that similar purposes.
the United Arab Republic is free to in- I do not say we should abolish the
vade Yemen, that the Brazzaville Congo United Nations, but I doubt whether we
Mr. DODD. Mr. President, in a Con-
cise, pointed editorial en Monday, June
28, the Hartford Times commented on
the execution last week of Sgt. Harold
Bennett.
The editorial concluded with these
words:
The execution of Sergeant Bennett ? ? ?
WWI illegal. an act of murder. The U.S. Gov-
ernment !Mould promptly and publicly serve
notice that every 1rm,t1 who had a hand in
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It will bc eonddered a critnina; .uail se treat-
ed, and 'lie wore aiid taiwer o? the United
States al.o..1/1 LA: 1;:c-thged h, that end
I agree fully, and ask unanimous con-
bent that this editorial be printed in the
Riecent0 at this Point.
There being no objection, the editorial
was ordered to be printed iri the Recoil?,
as follows:
BARBARISM IN VIETNAM
The Hanoi government of North Vietnam
says Sgt. Harold George Bennett, US. Army,
was executed as "an aggressor who had com-
mitted many crimes against the South Viet-
mimetic people.-
Just for the record.
Sergeant Bennett, like all other American
soldiers in Vietnam. was there at the in-
vitation of the legal government of that
country lie wee is uniforned member of
a regular military force. acting under the
lawful ordt I'S of his superiors By Muir-
national law and age-old custom ne was
entitled to humane treatment from 111.- cop
-
I ()IS.
Ills wan in : eprisal aga!t,st the
v5r, ut!,,tts several Vieteong Inert 't,'-r.by
the south Vietnarnefte Government
The vietcong Is considered by the Gov-
ernmcht of Sotnh Vietnam to he an Illegal
organization. Its members are legally trai-
tors. rhe iitverament cf the United States.
the C S Almy, 0jSerecant. Bennett had no
part U. the molt Inlet 01 VietC0I1g 111731I)ers
th?- Clort.rainent 1710,11Arn,
cc,' -717,,h of Scr,2,117,I Bennett, there-
fore, was illegal, rt ct of murder The
U.S. Government should promptly and pub-
licly serve notice that cry person who had
a hand in it VIII be eonsidered a criminal
Nod se, treated, and the word and power of
the United States should be pledged to that
end
NEW HAVEN RAILROAD
Mr. DC)DD. Mr. President, I com-
mend to the attention of my colleaguee.
especially the Senators from the lower
New ETetiand-New York area, an excel-
lent series of three articles that appeared
In the Hartford Times last week.
These articles are important and in-
formative not only because they cover
the background and recent developments
concerning the New Haven Railroad but
because the articles go into the possi-
bility of private enterprise stepping in
and bringing se:NB:es back to a high
level.
Whet good private management can
do to straighten out a failing railroad
Is' too often left cut of discussions and
proposals on hay, to keep the New Haven
from going tinder.
Railroads in worse trouble than the
New Hav( n have been net only saved but
turned into prefita ile ventures by pri-
vate means.
Why not the New Haven?
I ask unanimous consent to have these
Hartford Tunes articles, written by Don
0 Noel, Jr., printed in the Ricone at this
There being no objection, the articles
were Ordered to be printed in the RSCORD,
as follows:
Eserars Disscare at: New RAITN RAILROAD
S r-IENT17
(Who will buy the New Haven Railroad?
Mee recently, there have appeared only two
choices The merging Penn-Central Rail-
road, or else the States themselves. There
now appears a third choice: New England
private enterprise. In this series, the Hart-
ford Times explores the facts and OgUree
which lead a growing number of business-
men to believe the bankrupt New Haven
could make money.1
(By Don 0. Noel, Jr.y
Can the New Haven Railroad's commuter
operations turn a profit?
"No." says Stuart T. Saunders, chairman of
the Pennsylvania Railroad, one of the merg-
ing Penn-Central leaders now negotiating to
run that very commuter service on a contract
etude.
Mr. Saunders told his stockholders in May
that "there is no .way on earth" that corn-
er railroads, such RA the Long Island, and
presumably the New Haven as well. can be
made profitable.
-Yes " says a bratainew engineering study
of the New Harem made public Monday. It
forecasts a profit margin of $114 million a
year. Including amortization of new equip-
ment and stations. Still more efficiency, It
said, could come with gradual Installation of
automatic fare collection.
This sharp difference of opinion Is one of
the reasoum private, New England interests
are weighing a bid to buy the New Haven
Railro.al, I:with:H:1g its commuter service,
away from the Penn-Central.
Fb.cn before the New Haven Commuter
Study Ciroup made its findings public Mon-
day, there were strong arguments on the side
of profitable commuter service.
The rtrongest.. the CNW, or Chicago and
North Western Hallway.
Plve years ago, the CNW began a massive
de?glopment program. Faced with competi-
tion trorn three new expressways, the line
spent. $50 million for n.ew equipment, double-
deck Gars, better timetables, rebuilt stations.
Its chain/um, Ben W. Heineman, told a
New York meeting of security analysts this
month that his commuter operation will
clear $1 million profit in 1065. It has already
begun a second. 10-percent Increase In com-
muter equipment Investment. and Mr. Heine-
man said another go-around lies ahead, with
indennIte growth
Mr Heineman carefully refrained from Bay-
ing a dose of CNW medicine Could cure New
York commuter deficits.
But a comparison of the systems suggests
it tre!,;let.
LENGTH or RIDE
The CNW carries about half again as many
commuters as does the New Haven. They
must be picked tip at three times as many
stations as the New Haven's riders. Their
average ride Us a third shorter than the New
Haven average, and therefore theoretically
leas enielent.
(Petinsy's Saunders told his stockholders
the certV's commuter profit is largely due to
the fact that he hauls are longer than most.
Feeney commuter runs. But the average New
Haven commuter rides 80 miles, compared to
a 21-mile average on the CNW.)
Despite these apparent handicaps, the ONW
operation has been turned from loris to profit.
Some if the techniques:
A now fleet of double-dock cars (180 pas-
aengers. compared with 110 on the'New Ha-
ven cut car maintenance and reduced crew
size.
The CNW thus delivers to the city on each
rush-hour, train the frame number of riders
as a New Haven train, 650-700. But it uses
an average of 8.8 cars instead of e. With lama
train weight, less locomotive power is needed.
Greater reliance on nonstop express runs
Attracts peseengers. It also allows less pow-
erful (and lees costly) locomotion with lees
frequent armeleration from stops to running
sPeed?
The CNW uses more efficient push-pull
locomotives, rather than self-propelled unite.
Commuter trains are backed into terminals.
so two cars can be left for the eventing rush.
while the other one or two shuttle back and
forth to give frequent midday service:
The result: it costa the CNW $6.21 for each
mile each train runs, and revenue per train-
mile Is *8.40. a 19-cent profit.
It costa the New Haven $16.30 for each
train-mile, and revenues are only e13.30, or a
$2 loss.
COST PLR MILE
The. CNW's operating efficiency can be
viewed another way. The New Haven car-
ries its average commuter 30 miles, one way
at a cost of $1,100 a year. The CNW carries
Its average rider 21 miles nue way, for $470.
That's 70 percent of the distance for 43 per-
cent of the cost.
Could the New Hat cmi do as well?
Two separate studies, in fact, say yea.
The most recent, announced this week by
the New Haven Commuter Study Group.
proposed spending $15 million for 76 new
self-pr i pelted ears, and $15 million DI,Ote
for new stations. maintenance yards, signal-
ing nod engineer:es;
The StI1115, tas0 reeommetuts eliminating
commuter service east vf Westport, and pro-
viding sharply-increased express runs.
The projected outcome: a commuter 'sys-
tem whose trains would shave 5 to 20 minutes
off present runs to Grand Central, attract
new riders, and earn a profit of $1,680,000
before taxes. etill further profit should be
possible, the report said, by developing off-
peak (mid-dayt truffle, and by gradually
automating fare collection.
Much the same result. but with slightly
different techniques, was predicted in an
earlier study presented the trustees in 1802.
It proposed a 3-year program during which
the railroad would refurbish its present cars,.
and gradually install double-deck, 200-pas-
senger ears.
Included in this early study was a similar
refurbishing of intercity (long-haul) service,
with a bar-galley In each car served by a
stewardees, more use of reserved-seat trains.
and institution of tulitized three-to-four oar
expresses, running nearly nonstop to Hart-
ford, Providence, Boston, and a few other
cities,
The estimated capital cost of such a pro-
gram was e18 million, with an $8 million
Government Subsidy needed during the 3
years it would take to complete the conver-
sion.
Trustees of the bankrupt New Haven, when
presented this early refurbishing program,
said they bad already decided on a program
to trim back the rallroed, try to show a proft,
and win inclusion of the slimmer, trimmer
Now Haven in the Penn-Central merger.
Drpension, they tued, would be reVersing
the direction of their trusteeship.
But expansion is very much In the minds
a the private business interesta, now looking
at the New Haven.
No one pretends a glamorised, rescheduled
New Haven Railroad will begin making im-
pressive profits right away. The CNW's $1.2
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The editorial follows:
monvs Is GOOD
However history may deal with the judg-
ment of the United States in its involvement
in Vietnam and the Dominican Republic, it
must accord it an unique purity of purpose.
No one who has not been brainwashed can
believe this Nation has any aggressive pur-
pose.
It Wants peace; it does not seek material
;wealth, the ancient motivations of imperial-
ism. Whenever American policies abroad are
condemned these two basic truths must be
kept in mind.
This Nation twice has been drawn into
world wars. In the first one, it never ven-
tured beyond its borders in any preventive
action. In the second one, it did virtually
nothing to head Off the escalation of the
Axis' aggresSion'until it had to go allout as
a belligerent.
Virtually all of America's military actions
in foreign nations bespeak an effort not to
make the same mistake three times. It be-
lieves counnUnism to be inherently aggres-
sive. It believes aggression often takes the
form of a takeover from within nations.
Hence this Nation's widespread participation
in efforts to stop the seedling fires. This
Much the whole world may say, and history
cannot denounce as evil the motivation of
the United States.
Who Are the Leaders of the
Demonstrations?
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
_ OF
HON. JAMES D. MARTIN
fit ALABAMA*
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Thursday, June 24, 1965
Mr. MARTIN of Alabama. Mr. Speak-
er, under permission to extend my re-
marks in the RECORD I would like to in-
clude a news story from the Gadsden
(Ala.) Times of June 25, 19.65. I think
the good people of the North, many of
whom joined in the demonstrations in
Selma and the march on Montgomery,
should know the caliber of some of the
leaders of the so-called civil rights move-
merit.
The article follows:
CIVIL RIGHTS LEADER JAILED, ACCUSED OF
FONDLING Grata
Srams, ALA ?A leader of civil rights dem-
onstrators was in sail today, accused of
fondling teenaged girls, possessing pornog-
raphy and using profanity before young
girls.
William Ezra Greer, 41, also was being in-
vestigated by police in connection with com-
plaints from local civil rights leaders that
? Greer channeled rights movement funds into
his own pocketbook.
Police Commissioner Wilson Baker said
Greer, a Negro, listed addresses in Selma,
Chicago, and Birmingham and had papers
showing affiliation with Dr. Martin Luther
King, Jr., and the State youth crusade of
King's Southern Christian Leadership Con-
ference.
Greer came to Selma last March and led
a 5-day prayer vigil for the Reverend James
Reel), the Boston minister killed by white
men in am attack on a Selma street.
Twe weeks ago, Baker said, he received
statements from members of the local SOLO
staff accusing dreer of taking organization
funds for his own use.
, ?
"I guesa we weren't investigating fast
enough, because they came back and signed
this series of warrants," Baker said.
At midday, Greer was freed on $900 bond,
but was arrested again after a Negro man
claimed that Greer fondled his 16-year-old
daughter.
An investigation of Greer's room turned
up a quantity of obscene material, Baker
said.
re
We Can't V w From Vie am
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
OF
HON. PAUL G. ROGERS
OF FLORIDA
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Thursday, June 24, 1965
Mr. ROGERS of Florida. Mr. Speak-
er, earlier this month the Fort Myers
News-Press commented on the need for
a continuing policy of strength in south-
east Asia. It is pointed out that the war
in Vietnam is not of our making, and is
not of President Johnson's making?but
it is our war all the same and it must be
fought:
Perhaps if there were less talk of with-
drawal the North Vietnamese might abandon
the hopes they hold now that we will do so
and be willing to talk terms.
- I ask that this excellent editorial be
printed here in the RECORD:
[From Fort Myers (Fla.) News-Press,
- June 18, 10651
WE CAN'T WITHDRAW FROM VIETNAM
Now some 20,000 additional 'U.S. troops are
being sent to South Vietnam, bringing the
total of our fighting men there to 70,000.
This troop buildup follows a buildup of
planes and other armament there and more
will probably follow for no end of the war
is in sight. Instead of pouring more men,
munitions and money into what seems now
to be a hopeless struggle in some far-away
jungle, should we give up and withdraw and
let the Communist Vietcong have the coun-
try? That's what is advocated in certain
quarters.
Those who advocate it are not necessarily
Communists or Communist sympathizers.
Many of them are perfectly loyal Americans
who sincerely feel our policy there is wrong
and that it will lead to war on a larger scale,
which perhaps it will. But they can have
little conception of why we're in Vietnam
and what the stakes are that we're fighting
for there.
The war in Vietnam is but part of a gen-
eral Communist assault on the whole of free
Asia which is now taking shape. Vietnam
is the most important front and it may be
the decisive one but it is far from the only
one. In Laos the government is under at-
tack by insurgent Pathet Lao forces led and
supplied by North Vietnamese. In Malaysia
there are constant efforts at terrorism and
infiltration by Sukarno's Communist agents
from Indonesia. In Burma, the government
is fighting Communist guerrillas who con-
trol key areas. In Thailand a foothold has
been established by Communist agents and
a definite pattern of subversion is now
emerging. In the Philippines the Huk guer-
rillas are becoming active again and control
a number of villages by terror.
A lie circulated by the Communist propa-
ganda apparatus is that these insurgencies
throughout Asia and others elsewhere are all
Inspired by the quest for social justice and
economic progress on the part of the masses.
Actually in all the free countries of Asia that
the Communists seek to liberate there have
been great social, economic, and political
gains. In the Communist-dominated areas
there has been systematic impoverishment of
the people both materially and spiritually.
The free people of Asia generally realize
this, they seek to resist communism and they
want and need our help. A recent editorial
in the Indian Economic Review, semiofficial
publication of the All India Congress Com-
mittee, says: "Nothing should deter lovers
of freedom and democracy to make every ef-
fort to thwart Communist China's overrun-
ning the vulnerable southeast Asia, for if our
neighbors of southeast Asia succumb, we
have no chance of survival. If the United
States, which obviously realizes the tremen-
dous danger of expansionist Communist
China, keeps aloof from this area, man's free-
dom is at stake." Note the last sentence?
not just India's survival but "man's free-
dom."
So if the United States should withdraw
from Vietnam, then where in Asia would we
hold the line against the advance of commu-
nism? If we draw that line somewhere else
it might well take a far greater effort to hold
it there and risk an even greater escalation
toward all-out war. And if we pull out en-
tirely, we will assuredly be confronted with
more "Vietnams" all over the world, includ-
ing Latin America.
The war. In Vietnam is not of our making
but it is our war all the same. And al-
though it is not clear at present how it is to
be won, it must be fought. Perhaps if there
were less talk of withdrawal the North Viet-
namese might abandon the hopes they hold
now that we will do so and be willing to talk
terms.
The United Nations?Two Decades Old
SPEECH
OF
HON. JAMES C. CLEVELAND
OF NEW HAMPSHIRE
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Thursday, June 24, 1965
Mr. CLEVELAND. Mr. Speaker, 20
years ago the United Nations came into
being, invested with the hopes of men
weary and torn by the most devastating
general war in history. Since then, the
roster of member nations has doubled
and much has changed. Great strains
threaten to rend the U.N., reflecting the
strains within the international commu-
nity. If there is trouble in the United
Nations, and there is, it is not basically
because of inherent defects within the
structure. It is because of the failure
of the membership to make it work.
Fundamentally, the structure of the U.N.
is sound and it would work if the mem-
bers chose to make it work.
We in New Hampshire have a special
interest in the United Nations because,
in 1945, the question of whether the
United States should endorse the pro-
posal for the U.N. was put to the voters
in the spring town meetings. It won
overwhelming approval and this was, I
believe, the only time when the question
was put directly to the people anywhere
in the country. In addition, the United
Nations Building itself contains a quan-
tity of New Hampshire granite.
As wereflect on the past 20 years and
endeavor to fathom the future, let us
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salute the United Nations for its past
accomplishments and strive to correct
its faults. Its success is dependent upon
the goodwill of men and nations. Let it
not fail because of any lack of goodwill
on our part.
Barbara Ann Lynch: Heroine
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
OF,
HON. WILLIAM T. CAHILL
OF' NEW JERSEY
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Wednesday, June 30, 1965
Mr. CAHILL. Mr. Speaker, by an act
of Congress the President is authorized
each year to award Young American
Medals for outstanding bravery and serv-
ice demonstrated by our young American
boys and girls. This year four recipients
were named by Attorney General Nich-
olas de13. Katzenbach and today I had
the pleasure of attending the White
House ceremony and personally meeting
three of these recipients. The award in
the other case regrettably was granted
Posthumously to the parents of the
young heroine who died in an effort to
save her young brother from a fire.
I was particularly delighted that Bar-
bara Ann Lynch; age 16, of Atco, N.J., a
community in the First Congressional
District which I have the honor to rep-
resent in the House of Representatives,
was one of the four recipients. I know
that the Members of the Congress will be
pleased to learn that Barbara Ann, who
was born on August 24, 1948, to Mr. and
Mrs. Farrell Joseph Lynch, of Atco, and
who is a junior at Camden Catholic High
School in Cherry Hill, N.J., truly earned
her award by a demonstration of out-
standing courage and bravery.
On the morning of November 10, 1963,
Barbara, who was then 15, discovered
that there was a blaze in the living room
of the family's frame home. She awak-
ened her father who then roused his wife
and son and all of them safely left the
home. Once out on the street, however,
Barbara noticed the absence of her 90-
year-old grandmother and dashed back
into the flaming bedroom for the pur-
pose of rescuing her.
It became immediately apparent to
her that it was impossible for her to
lead or to carry her grandmother, who
was an invalid, out of the home, so she
helped the sick woman out of the bed and
onto the floor, covered her with a blanket,
shut the door and then lay across her
grandmother to protect her from the
flames.
Barbara's father was prevented from
returning because of the intense heat and
smoke and as a result, Barbara and her
grandmother were overcome by smoke
and suffered third degree burns before
firemen were able to enter and carry
them to safety.
Members of the Atco volunteer fire
company were amazed to observe the un-
selfish devotion and the courageous he-
roics of such a young girl.
Knowing the Lynch family personally,
I was particularly delighted to see the
Attorney General and the President
single her out of many nominees for
this high award.
I know that I speak for all of the citi-
zens of the First Congressional District
and, indeed, for all the citizens of the
United States when I say to Barbara Ann
Lynch, "Well done."
It is demonstration of this type of
courage that renews the confidence of all
of us in the youth of America. I believe
that this entire program is a worthwhile
one and I sincerely hope that Congress
will in the future increase the number of
possible recipients as an encouragement
and inspiration to the boys and girls of
America.
Once again, I congratulate Barbara
Ann and her entire family and wish them
many years of good health and God's
blessings.
Joe Maldonado, Los Angeles' Antipoverty
Chief, a Highly Respected Professional
Administrator
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
OF
HON. EDWARD R. ROYBAL
OF CALIFORNIA
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Monday, June 14, 1965
Mr. ROYBAL. Mr. Speaker, I would
like to take this opportunity to insert in
the CONGRESSIONAL RECORD an excellent
article from the June 21, 1965, edition of
the Los Angeles Times on Mr. Joe P.
Maldonado, the highly respected execu-
tive director of the Los Angeles Youth
Opportunities Board.
The article, written by Times' staff
writer Paul Weeks, is a fine study of
one of the top professional administra-
tors now working in the national effort
to wage a successful war on poverty in
America.
Mr. Maldonado's personal background
and experience, in addition to his edu-
cation and motivation, have prepared
him well for the challenging and often
times difficult task of organizing and
coordinating the antipoverty program in
the Los Angeles area.
Los Angeles has already received ap-
proximately $12 million in Federal as-
sistance under this program, and should
continue to be among the chief bene-
ficiaries of the Johnson administration's
promising new approach to solving the
tragic paradox of extreme poverty far
some 30 million disadvantaged citizens,
in the midst of an all-time record pros-
perity for most Americans.
The ultimate success of this worth-
while effort in Los Angeles will depend
in large measure on the determination
and proven executive ability of such out-
standing community leaders as Mr. Joe
Maldonado.
The Los Angeles Times article follows:
MALDONADO WALKS TIGHTROPE IN WAR ON
POVERTY
(By Paul Weeks)
A political tightrope between three sectors
of the war on poverty here vibrates nervously
these days to the toe-dancing of a 230-
pounder who has no yen at all for the high
wire.
Round-jowled Joe P. Maldonado, 43,
climbed out on it at the insistence of the
youth opportunities board?which he serves
as executive director?because he's the only
man anyone could think of who wouldn't
immediately draw sniper fire from one sector
or another.
Maldonado's job is to try to induce the
contestants to establish a screening agency
for community antipoverty projects so they
will go back to fighting poverty instead of
each other.
His assignment by the all-government
board to mediate drew the endorsement of
the economic opportunity federation, in
which the private welfare agencies' strength
lies, and from Mayor Samuel W. Yorty, flag-
bearer for city hall's interests.
At the same time, a silent prayer was
offered up for Maldonado by kingpins in the
community war on poverty committee, dom-
inated by Negro and Mexican-American or-
ganizations which claim to hold vigil for the
interests of the poor themselves.
Proof that he was the acceptable choice
lay in the privately expressed fears from all
sides that someone else might shoot him
down, endangering the professional job he
had done initially in launching the poverty
war here.
That program, hailed all the way to Wash-
ington as perhaps the best in the Nation,
is stalled. The youth opportunity board was
a temporary expedient to get it started.
But failure to reorganize to meet Federal
requirements for policy level participation
by the private agencies and the poor has left
the youth opportunity board stranded.
Washington is bypassing it to fund local
projects directly.
Within 3 days after Maldonado began to
mediate, reports emanated that the dead-
lock was loosening, but there were still major
areas of disagreement.
Maldonado's qualifications to soothe the
disputants are unique. Besides being an
on-the-job, $25,000-a-year pro, he has lived
and worked in all three camps?Government,
private agency and minority-group poverty
area.
You might say he started his own personal
war on poverty the day he was born, June
29, 1921, in the northern New Mexico coal-
mining town of Dawson, population of 1,000
then, now obliterated from the map.
"Dad was a coal miner, when there was
work, brought up by the railroads from
Aguascalientes, Mex., before the first war,"
Maldonado said.
Joe's mother, with no schooling has never
learned to speak English or to read or write.
His father, self-taught, had only 8 months
of school. Joe learned Spanish first.
But Operation Headstart, the 1965 pro-
gram to prepare culturally deprived chil-
dren for an equal footing when they start
school, had its parallel in Dawson:
"There was a little girl named Maguire,"
Joe recalls with a grin. "She taught me Eng-
lish, and I taught her Spanish."
In 1931 with the depression, the father.
Jose, faced 6 desperate years without work.
Joe, youngest of four children, started work
at 10 for his board and room.
"I pumped gas, worked in the general
store and delivered groceries for a family in
nearby Colfax. Sometimes they'd load a
pickup full of food for me to take home. For
a while there, I was the only one bringing
home groceries."
His motivatiOn to go on to high school, he
admits, was to get off a $1-a-day job on a
farm, "milking cows and slopping hogs at
4 a.m.," and driving a hay rake or a mower
behind a team of horses.
He earned his room and board in another
little town onMaxwell, working for his high
school teacher and coach, now Dr. Curtis
Martin, head of the department Of prditical
science at the University of Colorado
Probably Joe was never paid bettei in his
life--in inspiration.
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dren of lawlessness and disciples of destruc-
tion. They are people who cloak themselves
in the roles of civil righters but plot and plan
In secret to disrupt our fight for justice and
full citizenship. They must be unmasked
for the frauds that they are, they must be
fought in every arena."
He stated that he had seen known Commu-
nists passing out throwaways and helping to
deliver placards to pickets on and about his
campus.
The Kansas City Times of Wednesday, May
19, published an Associated Press dispatch
about the lawless demonstrations in progress
on the campus of the University of Wiscon-
sin. It said that one of the leaders openly
espoused, from a public rostrum on the cam-
pus, that "the students should band together
to bring down the Government by any
means."
It also said that the "demonstrations"
there had now been infiltrated and were be-
ing led by "eight to a dozen" ringleaders who
are operating under "pretty good cover"; that
..at least some of them are known members
of the DuBois Clubs of America, which Sena-
tor DODD and J. Edgar Hoover have recently
described as a "new Communist-oriented
youth organization dominated and controlled
by the Communists."
These lawless activities, nauseating as they
are, can hardly be surprising, for they are,
purely and simply, some of the results that
we should have known would inevitably come
from tolerating open and direct preachments
to defy and violate the law.
Avery recent issue of U.S. News & World
Report [May 17, 1965] contains two perti-
nent articles. One saying that "increased
Communist penetration and influence in-
side some sections of the Negro movement
in the United States is a subject of growing
concern to the FBI and White House." The
other saying, "J. Edgar Hoover, FBI Direc-
tor, and President Johnson both are increas-
ingly concerned by the growing activity of
known Communists on the campuses of col-
leges around the country. They would like
to alert,the country to the situation, but are
concerned about being considered 'Red-bait-
ers' if they do."
I, for one, would like to lend a voice of
encouragement to them to forget those fears
and to alert the country fully about the
facts, for slimly that is their duty and no
odium can result from exposing those who
are preaching and practicing defiance of our
law and, hence, the destruction of our so-
ciety.
There are, of course, first duties of citizen-
ehip, but there are also first duties of Gov-
ernment. It is undoubtedly true, as recited
in the theme of the presidentially proclaimed
Law Day, 1965, that "a citizen's first duty
is to uphold the law," but it is also a first
duty of Government to enforce the law?to
do so by prosecuting and punishing those
who violate our criminal laws.
In no other way can our people be secure
from assaults and trespasses upon their per-
sons add property, or maintain an ordered
and, moral society.
Because some of our citizens will not vol-
untarily perform their "first duty" to uphold
the law, our Governments, State and Fed-
eral, have the paramount duty of, at least,
Making them obey it.
We ha.ve all along been told, and many of
us have preached, that crime does not pay,
but the recent rash and spread of law de-
fiance, and the successes?however, tenuous
and temporary?of that philosophy in at-
taining goals, seems to compel a reappraisal
Of that concept, for, from what we see cur-
rently happening, one could reasonably be-
lieve that certain types of crimes are being
permitted to pay.
rirstIC APkritr AND LAWLESNESS
Probably because of a rather widespread
recognition that; at times and in"certain sec-
tors, some of our colored brethren have 'Suf-
fered unconstitutional discriminations, and
because many of us have been sympathetic
to the ends they seek?and have not, there-
fore, thought very much about the destruc-
tive means they have embarked upon to at-
tain those ends?there has been a rather
general public apathy toward their preach-
ments to violate, and their practices in vio-
lating, our laws.
Indeed, one of those who first advised, and
was most successful in inducing, his follow-
ers to take the law into their own hands?
and who, now that their conduct has led
to widespread disorder, attempts to excuse
his responsibility for it with the doubtless
true statement: "I cannot control them"?
parenthetically, an excuse quite reminiscent
of the one given by the man who lighted
the squib and threw it into the crowd?
was rather recently twice honored. Once by
an old and respected American university
by conferring upon him an honorary degree?
not in some new political science?but in law,
and, second, by an honored foreign cultural
group by awarding him a prize for, of all
things, .his contributions to peace.
What, I would like to ask, has happened
to our sense of values?
But a recent article in the May 3, 1965,
issue of U.S. News & World Report hints at
a new and different appraisal of this con-
duct, and indicates some official impatience
with this gentleman's apparent insatiable
appetite for power, and some displeasure
at his recently voiced criticism of the ad-
ministration's foreign policies in Vietnam
and elsewhere?concluding with the state-
ment that "some Washington observers pro-
fess to see an attempt [by this gentleman]
to `escalate' his status as a national figure?
perhaps with political goals in view."
This is heartening, as it indicates a new
awareness of the inevitable destruction of
ordered liberty that must be expected if we
continue to allow any of our citizens to
incite others to disobey the law?to take
it into their own hands, and to get away
with it.
Whatever may have been the provoca-
tions?and, doubtless, there have been
some?no man, or any group or race of men,
can be permitted, in a government of laws,
to take the law, or what they think ought
to be the law, into their own hands, for
that is anarchy, and sure to result in chaos.
The fact that the provocations may have
been themselves constitutionally, unlawful
cannot justify unlawful means for their reso-
lution.
Both types of conduct are wrong?consti-
tutionally wrong, the one as much as the
other. And, obviously, two wrongs cannot
make a right.
All discriminations that violate the Con-
stitution and laws of the United States are
readily redressable in our courts, which have
always been open to all citizens. And no
one has any room to doubt that, if he will
resort to those courts, and have the patience
to await their processes?as we all must do
in an ordered society?all his constitutional
and legal rights will be vouchsafed to him,
whatever his creed or color.
But there has been impatience with the
judicial processes, manifested by the recent
hue and cry for "action now?not the de-
lays of the law."
Certainly this cliche, too, advocates such
direct action as amounts to a clear call for
disobedience of the laws, the judgments of
the courts and of all constituted authority
and lawful processes.
It is true that legal processes, being re-
fined and deliberative processes, are slow.
? But like the mills of the gods, though they
grind slowly, they grind exceedingly fine,
and their judgments are most likely to be
just.
In all events, there is no other fair and
orderly way to decide the issues that arise
among us, and to have an ordered liberty.
Every ordered society in history has found
It necessary to establish laws, and courts
fairly to interpret and enforce them; and
the same history makes clear, too, that the
first evidences of a society's decay may be
seen in its toleration of disrespect for, and
disobedience of, its laws and the judgments
of its courts.
HOW MINORITY GROUPS CAN LOSE OUT
The great pity here is that these minority
groups, in preaching and practicing de-
fiance of the law, are, in fact, advocating
erosion and destruction of the only struc-
ture that can ever assure to them, or per-
manently maintain for them, due process of
law and the equal protection of the laws, and
that can, thus, protect them from discrimina-
tions and abuses by majorities.
In May 1965, Mr. Lewis F. Powell, president
of the American Bar Association, in a speech
dedicating the new Missouri Bar Center at
Jefferson City, said, "Many centuries of hu-
man misery show that once a society de-
parts from the rule of law, and every man
becomes the judge of which laws he will
obey, only the strongest remain free," and
also that "those who break the great tradi-
tion of respect and tolerance for the differ-
ing views of others by resorting to coercion,
whether `violent' or `nonviolent,' menace the
spirit of responsible inquiry essential to [our]
institutions." "No 'end,'" he said, "how-
ever worthy [can ever] jutsify resort to un-
lawful means."
He concluded with the statement that
"America needs a genuine revival of respect
for law and orderly processes, a reawakening
of individnal responsibility, a new impatience
with those who violate and circumvent laws,
and a determined insistence that laws be en-
forced, courts respected and due process fol-
lowed." To this, I say amen.
Surely we must always strive to eliminate
injustice and discrimination, but we must
do so by orderly processes in the legislatures
and the courts, and not by defying their
processes and actions, nor by taking the laws
into our own hands.
We must take the laws into our hearts
rather than into our hands, and seek re-
dress in the courts rather than in the streets.
A very recent issue of the Kansas City Star
contained several articles about the general
breakdown of law and order on our college
campuses.
One of them fairly puts the finger on the
cause. It did so through quoting one of the
"demonstrating" students. He was asked
why some students had abandoned historical
"panty raids" and similar college pranks for
open and riotous rebellion. "Why," he said,
"you could get kicked out of school for con-
ducting a panty raid and things of that kind,
but no one is ever kicked out or punished
for demonstarting for something like civil
rights."
It is thus plain that the students, know-
ing just as everyone else knows, that open
and riotous rebellion in the name of "civil
rights" is not being punished, but is being
tolerated, have been thus encouraged to
wage and spread rebellion.
Another of these articles quoted some
comments of J. Edgar Hoover about the ef-
fects of spreading crime upon the peace
and safety of our citizens. He said: "There
is too much concern in this country * * *
for the `rights' of an individual who com-
mits a crime.
"I think he is entitled to his [legal rights],
but I think the citizens of this country
ought to be able to walk all the streets of
our cities without being mugged, raped, or
robbed." But, he said, we can't do so today,
and he added: "All through the country,
almost without exception, this condition
prevails."
The April 10, 1965, issue of the magazine
America contained an article on the impera-
tive need for certain and severe punishment
of crime, which made many pertinent ob-
servations, including this one:
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A3448 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? APPENDIX June 30, 1965
"[Government] has no right to turn the
cheek of its citizens. Instead, it is gravely
obligated--by the very purpose of its exist-
ence?to see to their protection.
"Sure and swift punishment [is our only
way] to guarantee that protection * * *.
We stand in need of sure, swift, tough pun-
ishment if we expect to decrease the crime
rate, and to protect the great mass of our
upright citizens."
To this, too, I can only say amen.
The causes are plain. We have, in high
places, tolerated and even encouraged
preachments to break the law?such as:
"Obey the good laws but break the bad
ones," which, of course, means to obey only
the laws you like; and such as: "Action now,
not the delays of the law," which is, of
course, a call for direct action outside the
law and the courts.
And we have also tolerated and in some
high places have even encouraged, the ac-
tual defiances of the law which those preach-
ments have advocated and brought into
existence, and which have now spread to
all areas of the Nation, and seriously
threaten the breakdown of law, order, and
morality.
REMEDY: DEMAND RESPECT FOR LAW
The remedy is equally plain. It is simply
to insist that our Governments, State and
Federal, reassume and discharge their first
duty of protecting the peOple against law-
less invasions of their persons and property
and from assaults upon their liberties by
demanding and commanding respect for
law and legal processes through the im-
partial, evenhanded, vigorous, swift, and
certain enforcement of our criminal laws
-and the real and substantial punishment
thereunder of all conduct that violates those
laws. -
These are not platitudes, but are funda-
mentals and vital, as every thinking man
should see, to the survival of our Nation.
In no other way can we orderly resolve
,the issues that confront and diyide us, or
live together in peace and harmony as a
'civilized nation of,-2 her under the fa-
therhood of Goth'
Battleship Need Cited in Fight for
Vietnam Plain
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
OF'
HON. BOB WILSON
OF CALIFORNIA
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Wednesday, June 30, 1965
Mr. BOB WILSON. Mr. Speaker, the
following newspaper article clearly out-
lines the need for beefing up our naval
forces off Vietnam. It was written by
one of today's best informed men, Brig.
Gen. James D. Hittle, T.J.S. Marine Corps,
retired, and appeared in the June 21 edi-
tion of the San Diego Union. General
Hittle has just returned from nearly a
month in South Vietnam and the Far
East and his views merit considerable
attention of all our colleagues:
[Prom the San Diego (Calif.) Union,
June 21, 1965]
FOUR STILL IN MOTHBALLS : BATTLESHIP NEED
CITED IN FIGHT FOR VIETNAM PLAIN
(By Brig. Gen. James D. Hittle, U.S. Marine
Corps, retired, director of National Security
and Foreign Affairs, Veterans of Foreign
Wars)
WASHING-roar?The sooner the mothballing
comes off our World War II battleships, and
the quicker they sail for South Vietnam, the
better.
The U.S. Navy still has four of those fast,
huge, heavily armored, and big-gunned ships.
Combat proven, they have been sleeping in
the quiet waters of back channels. They
could well prove to be a most important and
timely weapon in Vietnam.
No, we don't need them in southeast Asia
to repel a Communist fleet of coastal Junks,
nor to fight off Red torpedo attacks in the
Tonkin Gulf. We need these battlewagons
to make sure that we win the battle for the
coastal plain of South Vietnam?and win it
with the least possible casualties for our-
selves and the South Vietnamese.
The heavy fighting around Quang-Nai, Da
Nang, and Chu Lai marks the beginning of
a new phase of the war--the struggle for
the coastal plain. It could well be the de-
cisive phase.
It doesn't take intricate staff analysis to
realize why this narrow strip along the South
China Sea is so important. It is the food-
producing and population center for the vast
area north of Saigon. Also, through this sea-
coast flatland runs the main north-south
highway and rail line. Both are presently
unserviceable for long stretches due to Com-
munist bridge blowing and roadblocks.
PLAIN BECOMING CRITICAL AREA IN WAR
The portion of the plain from the Phu Bai
region southward through Da Nang to the
Marine beachhead at Chu Lai is becoming
the critical area of conflict. It about 100
miles long, and in its broader portions is 5
to 10 miles wide.
The Vietcong commanders know that if
they can't control the coastal plain with its
food supply, they'll be in logistic trouble.
If they have to fall back into the fast-rising
foothills and the inhospitable ferested
mountains, they will have to devote more
time to finding food and less to fighting.
It is difficult to imagine a more suitable
area for battleship gunfire. These ships are
the most powerful and mobile concentrations
of precise, weather-immune, long-range shore
bombardment weapons ever made. Each has
nine 16-inch guns. They fire a projectile of
11/2 tons almost 20 miles. Also, each ship has
20 5-inch guns for air defense and surface
targets.
Vietcong attacks are being stepped up.
The Reds are hoping to do their damage dur-
ing the monsoon which hampers our sup-
porting aircraft. Also, Vietcong doctrine
emphasizes night operations. Again the pur-
pose is to cancel out our air advantage. But
they won't have such advantages if we have
a couple of battleships off the coast, blasting
their concentrations regardless of weather or
visibility.
NAVY SUPPORTING GUNFIRE DEVELOPED
During the Pacific campaigns of World
War II, Navy-Marine amphibious doctrine
developed naval supporting gunfire to a fine
art. Since then it has been further perfected.
In the Korean war the Missouri steamed
up and down the coast, pummeling the Reds
along the shoreline and inland.
Naval gunfire already has been used in
Vietnam. But so far only the 5-inch guns
of destroyers and a few remaining 8-inch
guns of a cruiser have been available. They
are a big help, but not as devastating or
decisive as the battlewagon's big guns.
With battleship firepower available but not
used, it means that our forces in the coastal
strip are having to fight a tough enemy under
an unnecessary handicap of not having the
best available weapons. Such handicaps
mean 'unnecessary casualties.
Our advantage in South Vietnam is that
the war is essentially maritime in character.
We can bring to bear the weapons, logistics,
and mobility of our overwhelming seapower.
Having our backs to the sea, which we con-
trol, gives us the opportunity for victory.
Failure to exploit this advantage by using
battleship guns to back up our forces means
rejection of seapower's most powerful and
accurate all-weather bombardment weapon.
It could also mean, figuratively, turning OUT
back on the sea?and ultimate victory.
Tom Vail, a Man on the Move
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
OF
HON. ROBERT E. SWEENEY
OF OHIO
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Wednesday, June 30, 1965
Mr. SWEENEY. Mr. Speaker, I wish
to draw the attention of the Members of
the House to an article that appears in
the July 5 issue of Newsweek magazine
concerning Thomas Vail, a son of
Princeton and the editor of the influ-
ential Cleveland Plain Dealer.
Tom Vail, for a good number of years,
has been a member of the fourth
estate in Ohio and has served from a
cub reporter, all the way up the ladder,
to become editor of one of America's
largest newspapers.
Not only is Tom Vail a man of in-
fluence, but he is a gentleman of judg-
ment who is keen and alert as to the
public interest. In my opinion, he has
been constructive in his analyses of city,
State, and Federal issues. And while I
might not always agree with the edi-
torial comment of his newspaper on
those issues, I do find myself in agree-
ment in the majority of instances, and
quite agree with Newsweek's analysis of
his spectacular achievements in reform-
ing the Cleveland Plain Dealer.
The Newsweek article follows:
TIGERISH
For a quarter of a century, Editor Louis B.
Seltzer's afternoon Cleveland Press has been
Ohio's most influential newspaper while the
morning Cleveland Plain Dealer plodded be-
hind, dispensing a bland diet of conscientious
stodginess. "The Plain Dealer was run like
a trusteeship," says Thomas Van Husen Vail,
whose great-grandfather, mining millionaire
Liberty Emery Holden, founded the paper in
1842. "Frankly, it didn't have any guts."
A cum laude graduate of Princeton, Tom
Vail knows a successful idea when he sees it.
In 1963, when he became editor and publisher
of the Plain Dealer, Vail set out to whip the
Scripps-Howard-owned Press on its own
terms. The Platti Dealer's editorials, once
ponderous and a week behind the news, be-
came short, progressive, and current- -like
those in the Press. Makeup, once a grim
gray, became bright and airy?like the Press.
In the familiar Seltzer tradition, the Plain
Dealer began crusading for such civic causes
as a city payroll tax and a State university
campus in Cleveland and started exposing
crooks in the Longshoremen's Union and the
foul conditions in a State mental hospital.
The paper also cultivated Cleveland's nu-
merous ethnic groups--as the Press had done
for years?by running a weekly, page 1 series
on each. Vail has accompanied his meta-
morphosis with a flourish of promotion. Just
last week, for example, a 4-column, page-1
story boosted the paper's baseball clinic for
ladies, where questions on the nuances of
the game can be put to experts ranging from
American League President Joe Cronin to
Honey Alvis, wife of the Indians' third base-
man.
PROFITS UP
Vail's decision to add a healthy charge of
Seltzer to the fizzless Plain Dealer has paid
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June 30, 1965 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? HOUSE
a hard-working people, and a truly vi-
able? and important Congo emerging
from its colonial past. Many of these
experiences have been shared by the
United States and we know and appre-
ciate the extent of the problems that can
arise for a nation passing from the
shackles of colonialism to its chance for
greatness.
As I congratulate the people and lead-
ers of the Congo, then, on the progress
that they have brought about, and on
the success with which many of these
problems have been met, it is with sin-
cerity and a strong belief in the truly
great future which is destined for their
nation.
Mr. BINGHAM. Mr. Speaker, today
is the fifth anniversary of the in-
dependence of the Democratic Republic
of the Congo, commonly known as Con-
go?Leopoldville. I think it is appre-
Priate that we should mark this day and
that we should extend our congratula-
tions to President Kasavubu, Prime Min-
ister Tshombe, and their associates in
the Government and to the people of the
Congo.
While the history of the Congo as an
Independent state has been a turbulent
- one, we can be thankful on this day that
it is a nation and that no major East-
West conflict has developed within its
vast territory. For these achievements,
the United Nations can take a major
share of the credit.
It is perhaps ironic that the man who
for so long resisted the efforts of the
United Nations to preserve the Congo as
a unified state is today its Prime Min-
ister. But the degree of Mr. Tshombe's
shift of view is in itself a measure of the
TJ.N.'s accomplishment.
In my judgment, history will give due
credit to the extraordinary success of
the unprecedented and incredibly diffi-
cult mission which the U.N. carried out
during the first years of the Congo's in-
dependent existence. Under the leader-
ship of Secretary-General Dag Ham-
marskj old and of his successor, U Thant,
an international military force prevented
the nation from disintegrating into total
phew and prevented what might other-
wise well have been a clash between the
great powers. This same operation also
made it possible for the many hundreds
of technicians from the United Nations
and its family of agencies to carry on
the essential work of strengthening the
Congolese state and its economy and of
enabling it to meet its needs for highly
educated and trained personnel in all
fields of endeavor.
The Congo is a rich country and has
a potentially great future. We in the
United States extend our congratulations
to the Congolese people and our best
wishes for a speedy realization of that
great future.
Mr. OWELL. Mr. Speaker, today,
June 30, is an important day for the 15
million people of the Democratic Repub-
lic of the Congo, for it is the fifth anni-
versary of their independence. We
therefore would like to take this occasion
to extend warm felicitations to the Congo
Republic; to His Excellency Joseph
No. 118-8
Kasavubu, the President; His Excellency
Moise Tshombe, the Prime Minister; and
to the Charg?'Affaires ad interim of the
Congo Republic to the United States,
Joseph Ugolin Nzeza.
The history of the Congo has, unfor-
tunately, been one of turmoil, unhap-
piness, and foreign interference. Yet,
there have been periods of important and
successful autonomous rule.
As early as the 13th century, there ap-
peared in the Congo a powerful, unified
indigenous state?the Kingdom of the
Bakongo. The kingdom's predominance
was greatest from 1500 to 1650. It was
during this early period that Europeans
first became aware of the Congo.
External influence, inaugurated by the
Portuguese Diogo C5,o in 1483, led to an
unfortunate and extensive depopulation
of the Congo Basin by slave traders be-
tween the 15th and 20th centuries. The
terrible losses and cruelties inflicted
upon the oppressed Congolese were
finally ameliorated when the slave trade
was outlawed in the latter part of the
19th century.
European exploration of the Congo
took place mainly under the auspices of
King Leopold II of Belgium, whose in-
terest was stimulated by the adventures
of Stanley in the 1880's. From 1885 to
1908, the Congo Free State was the per-
sonal property of the King. In 1908,
however, the King ceded the Congo Free
State to the Belgian Government and it
remained a Belgian colony until 1960.
Finally, after 75 years of Belgian rule,
the Congo achieved its freedom on June
30, 1960.
Now, once again, the people of the
Democratic Republic of the Congo are
free and independent; and are striving
to exercise the position of importance
and leadership that should be theirs as
one of the largest and wealthiest nations
in Africa.
Manufacturing, mining, and agricul-
ture are all well developed in the Congo.
Income from the export of copper, dia-
monds, cobalt, tin, coffee, palm oil, cot-
ton, rubber, cocoa, and other products
has been well used to build a fine edu-
cational system, transport facilities, pub-
lic and private health centers, and many
hydroelectric powerplants.
Agricultural resources have been in-
creased through extensive research that
has proved of great value. Last year's
total exports rose 4.6 percent and Gov-
ernment gold reserves were also up sub-
stantially. As is the case with many of
Its African neighbors, the Democratic
Republic of the Congo has only begun to
realize its great potential. Its industrial,
mineral, agricultural, and human re-
sources are indeed tremendous.
Unfortunately, these 5 years since in-
dependence have not been happy ones
for the people of the Congo. Numerous
rebellions and civil wars have disrupted
the political unity and economic progress
of this large country, to the dismay of
the Congolese, myself, and the entire
world. Now, however, we have great
hopes that the worst is over, and that
effective leadership will lead to the nec-
14721
essary political stability and economic
progress that we all desire to see in this
country.
It is, then, with great pleasure that I
congratulate the people of the Demo-
cratic Republic of the Congo on this, the
fifth anniversary of their independence,
and I know that in this I am joined by
my distinguished colleagues.
GENERAL LEAVE TO EXTEND
Mr. O'HARA of Illinois. Mr. Speaker,
I ask unanimous consent that any of my
colleagues who so desire may have 5 days
in which to extend their remarks on this
subject.
The SPEAKER. Without objection,
it is so ordered.
There was no objection.
RUSSIAN FISHERY ON AMERICAN
SHORE
(Mr. WYATT asked and was given
permission to address the House for 1
minute and to revise and extend his re-
marks.)
Mr. WYATT. Mr. Speaker, our Ameri-
can fisherman in the North Pacific have
been beseiged from all sides during the
past few months. The normal problems
of nature have been multiplied many
times by threats from abroad. First,
we had the devastation to the Alaska
salmon fishery caused by the callous dis-
regard of any conservation principles
when the Japanese moved their large
mother ships into the area adjacent to
Alaska to make huge catches of Ameri-
can species salmon attempting to return
to Alaskan rivers. Our people have pro-
tested and some have even attempted to
organize a boycott of all Japanese im-
ports in retaliation. These ships have
moved away finally, but early evidence
indicates that they have done their dam-
age prior to moving.
Now we have another serious threat,
which I feel duty-bound to bring to the
attention of the Congress and the Ameri-
can people. For a number of weeks now,
Russian mother ships have been operat-
ing brazenly close, off the mouth of the
Columbia River. We have complained
time and again to the State Department.
These ships operate as close as 15 miles
to the Columbia River lightship. They
have satellite trawlers which fish and de-
liver their catches to the Russian mother
ship. They fish with nets and appar-
ently have every modern fishing device.
At my request, our own American fish-
ermen have taken several pictures of
these Russian ships, close to the shores
of Oregon and Washington, and I have
several right here for display. Such
experienced and competent fishermen as
Jim Parker and Arthur Anderson of As-
toria, Oreg., have seen them with their
own eyes.
I again call upon our State Depart-
ment to protest against this Russian fish-
ery on the American shore. I bring this
startling discovery to the floor of the
Congress to point out how far the Rus-
sians have gone, and I must speculate
with our fishermen that these Russian
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14722 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? HOUSE June 30, 1965
fleets may not be so close off our shores
for purposes of fishing only.
CONGRESSIONAL BASEBALL GAME
(Mr. AYRMS asked and was given per-
mission to address the House for 1 min-
ute.)
Mr. AYRES. Mr. Speaker, oftentimes
we are so troubled with the serious prob-
lems of the world that we forget there
is a great national pastime in this coun-
try and the public can relax by wit-
nessing a baseball game.
I am very proud to announce, although
I know most of you have read the sports
pages, that the Cleveland Indians are in
first place. They will be at the stadium
this evening, playing against the Sen-
ators.
Prior to that there will be a game that
is always of great interest to the Ameri-
can public. It is one time when the Re-
publicans, even though we are in the
minority, have an opportunity to defeat
the Democrats.
I refer to the congressional baseball
game this evening starting at 8:30.
Prior to that there will be a reception in
the Rayburn Building. There will be free
transportation out to the wonderful
stadium that this Congress voted to build
some years ago.
We will see you there.
OUTSTANDING OUTDOOR DRAMA IN
WESTERN NORTH CAROLINA
(Mr. BROYHILL of North Carolina
asked and was given permission to ex-
tend his remarks at this point in the REC-
ORD.)
Mr. BROYHILL of North Carolina.
Mr. Speaker, this past weekend, one of
America's finest historical pageants be-
gan its 14th season with the opening per-
formance on June 25 of Kermit Miller's
"Horn in the West" at Boone, N.C. The
drama will continue nightly except Mon-
days throughout the summer until Au-
gust 28, honoring the 203d anniversary of
Daniel Boone's pioneering efforts through
the Blue Ridge Mountains of North Caro-
lina.
Through the years of its production,
"Horn in the West" has taken its place
among the handful of great historical
dramas being played In outdoor amphi-
theaters throughout the country which
have brought pleasure and a deeper
awareness of the great heritage of the
American people. We in the Ninth Dis-
trict of North Carolina are proud, indeed,
of this colorful spectacle which brings to
life the struggles of our forefathers to
conquer the frontier and press forward
the settlement of the wilderness of the
forbidding mountain frontier and the
rich land beyond.
Many of you in this Chamber have
joined with the tens of thousands of fel-
low Americans who have relived the ex-
ploits of Daniel Boone and his hardy pio-
neers depicted in "Horn In the West."
However, the production of this drama
itself is no less interesting, representing
as it does the hard work, imagination,
and faith of a number of men who be-
lieved strongly that Boone's story should
be preserved and dramatized.
Indeed, "Horn in the West" is the
realization of a dream of the descendants
of men and women of the Blue Ridge
Mountains whose qualities are so well
characterized by the self-reliant Daniel
Boone. In this production, they have
formed a medium for collecting, pre-
serving, and transmitting this rich
heritage.
The beginning of the outdoor drama
institution was the organization of the
Southern Appalachian Historical Asso-
ciation, chartered and incorporated as a
nonprofit historical organization on De-
cember 9, 1951. The officers and board
members were elected and committees
appointed so that work on the produc-
tion, which was to be presented for the
first time on June 27, 1952, could begin.
Dr. I. G. Greer was elected president;
Dr. D. J. Whitener, executive vice presi-
dent; Mrs. Earleen Pritchett, secretary;
and James Marsh, treasurer. Elected
to the board of directors were R. E. Agle,
Mrs. Constance Stallings, G. C. Robbins,
Clyde R. Greene, Herman W. Wilcox,
Ralph Winkler, Stanley Harris, and Dr.
R. H. Harmon.
A young playwright, Kermit Hunter,
author of the successful outdoor drama,
"Unto These Hills," was commissioned
to write the script. After considerable
research, the play was written and the
title selected?"Horn in the West."
And there was a theater to be built.
A site had to be chosen. All available
land in the area was inspected by various
members of the association. A location
on the property of Jones Winkler was
chosen. A perfect setting for the am-
phitheater was found in a mountain
grove behind the Winkler home. Land
had to be cleared for parking areas, the
grounds had to be landscaped and the
theater, itself, had to be constructed.
Three separate stages were to be built
so that not only the panoramic effect
could be achieved but during the play-
ing of the drama one or even two stages
could be set while the third was being
used.
During 3 short months from March to
June, a miracle took place. The show
was completely put together. A mag-
nificent outdoor theater seating 2,500
persons was constructed. This 3-month
feat came about through the coopera-
tion and spirit of teamwork exercised by
civic-minded members of the entire town
of Boone and Blowing Rock. It was, in
some aspects, the same type of teamwork
exercised a few hundred years ago by
their forefathers who conquered the
wilderness and built an empire.
Today, the "Horn in the West" outdoor
drama is still sponsored by the Southern
Appalachian Historical Association.
Several persons who participated in the
creation of the drama are still on the
board. Dr. I. G. Greer is president. Dr.
R. H. Harmon is executive vice presi-
dent of the board's executive committee.
Other officers are Sam Dixon, second
vice president; Mrs. B. W. Stallings,
chairman of the association membership;
Lynn Holaday, treasurer; and Bob Allen,
curator. Last year the association sent
historical information, "Daniel Boone,
the Empire Builder" to every interme-
diate, junior high, and high school
teaching American and State history, in-
viting them to submit essays for cash
prizes. One thousand essays were en-
tered.
General manager of "Horn in the
West" is Herman W. Wilcox, also an
original officer of the association. John
Corey is public relations consultant.
It is my hope that as you travel
through the magnificent mountains of
North Carolina this summer, you will
have the opportunity to pause for an
evening at Boone, situated only a short
distance from the Blue Ridge Parkway,
to relive at a performance of "Horn in
the West" a time in our national ex-
perience when firm foundations of this
great Nation were being put down.
Ft
LETTER FROIcr7rSON VI 4 AM
(Mr. STAGGERS asked and was given
permission to address the House for 1
minute and to revise and extend his re-
marks and include extraneous matter.)
Mr. STAGGERS. Mr. Speaker, the
Morgantown Post, a newspaper published
in Morgantown, W. Va., has just printed
a letter from a soldier fighting in Viet-
nam to his father. This young man is a
worthy exponent of West Virginia real-
ism. He loves his country, and he knows
what that country has done for him. He
has not had the advantage of a college
training, but he seems to have learned a
number of things that some of our pam-
pered youth in college have not been
taught. His letter shows clearly that he
understands full well that liberty must be
defended in every generation. He under-
stands that our political and social insti-
tutions, with all their blessings to the
American individual, are not free and in-
alienable gifts, but must be fought for
continuously, or they will be lost forever.
As long as America produces Young
men like this one, we are safe. I am
sorry I cannot say as much about either
the youth or the older generation who do
not value their heritage enough to de-
fend it. I think this letter should con-
tribute to national morale, and include
it in the Record:
SABRATON DAD GETS A BIG THANK YOU, RE-
PORT ON VIET CONFLICT?LETTER FROM SON
/N VIETNAM BRIGHTENS FATHER'S DAY
(EDITOR'S NoTE.?Ale. David N. Musick, 21,
son of Mr. and Mrs. John R. Musick of Sabra-
ton, has been in Vietnam since April 11. His
Wife, Lana, and two children live at Ran-
dolph Air Force Base, San Antonio, Tex.
Airman Musick, a 1960 graduate of Morgan-
town High, wrote this letter, which arrived in
time to make the older Musick a proud and
happy father.)
JUNE 15, 1965.
To the MOST WONDERFUL FATHER IN THE
WORLD:
Well, Dad, seeing as how Sunday is Father's
Day, and they don't have any Father's Day
cards here, I thought I would write you a
letter. I don't think I have ever written a
letter to you personally, have I?
. Things over here are pretty much the
same except the Vietcong are stepping up
their activities in the south and the Soviet
Union is eying bombers into Hanoi, that is
the capital of the Vietcong. I think things
will get worse over here before they get
better.
I feel very proud being able to help in the
cause over here. I can truly say that I have
fulfilled my obligation to my country when
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June 30, 1965 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD -- HOUSE 14723
my tour is over. Some people in the United
States are against the United States being
in Vietnam. Mostly college students. I think
they are just afraid that they will have to
come over here and fight. I think we are
doing the right thing though. If the people
back there only knew how awful the Com-
munists are over here, they would be more
than glad to come and fight to prevent the
spreading of communism. We had to make
our stand somewhere.
The other day, the Vietcong stopped a
schoolbus 'outside Saigon and took a little
7-year-old girl off the bus and chopped every
one of her fingers off because they didn't
want the children attending the school that
they were because they were teaching them
the right things in life and they wanted to
give people an example of what might happen
to their children if they continued to go.
I'm sure those people in the United States
wouldn't want this, If they could only see
the looks on mothers' faces standing help-
lessly by watching the Vietcong torture their
sons and husbands, dismantling their bodies,
raping their daughters. People in the United
States seem to think along the lines of "Well,
It will never happen here, the hell with other
people." I'm talking of the people who don't
Want us over here, But it surely will happen
If we don't continue to fight it. I'm willing
to go to any extremes to insure a safe coun-
try for my babies and Lana.
We have so much to be thankful for. So
many people fought in World War II and
died so that we could have a free country.
I wish everyone could be at peace, but I
guess that will never be. I watched a funeral
the other day for eight servicemen killed over
here. I just about cried. It seems so ter-
rible to have to die in this lonely place away
from your loved ones.
Dad, I think we children are among the
luckiest children in the world to have such
wonderful parents. I know at times you
didn't think we appreciated all that you have
done for us, but now that I am grown up
and understand just how wonderful a father
you have been, I am so thankful. I know
there were times that I made you mad and
I am sorry for this.
There are so many neglected children in
this world. That's one thing we have never
known. You worked so hard for your family
to provide a nice home, food, and clothing.
If there were only some way to repay you
Dad, / surely would. But there are no words
of thanks or any amount of gifts we could
give to you to repay you for all the love
and understanding you have shown us. I
just pray to God that I can raise my children
and do as good a job as you and mom have.
[love you both so very much.
Thank you for everything you have ever
done for us children, Dad. You are the most
wonderful father anyone could ever ask for.
I love you.
Your son,
DANam.
THE LATE ED LYBECK
(Mr. ROOSEVELT asked and was
given permission to address the House
for 1 minute and to revise and extend his
remarks.)
- Mr. ROOSEVELT. Mr. Speaker, on
June 26, 1965, my field 'representative,
Ed Lybeck, suffered a fatal heart attack.
He had been my field representative
since January 3, 1955, when I was first
elected to Congress from the 26th Dis-
trict of California.
TO say that Ed performed his job with
expertise, dedication and loyalty is not
enough. There was ilifirlitely much
more that he gave to the office and con-
stituents, to the community, to his fam-
lily and friends?and to me. Ed was
known as a practical politician with
Ideals and dreams. He was honest and
candid, but always patient and under-
standing, willing to help in any situation.
His wit was legendary.
Ed Lybeck's death is a very deep per-
sonal loss to me, for he has been a true
friend in need and in deed over the
years, sharing my political and personal
problems?and always available to
counsel and advise. And, as any Cali-
fornian in politics or in State, county,
and city government will verify, Ed
Lybeck's views and comments have been
sought and respected by more people
than, any of us will ever know.
The accuracy of his analyses was due
to a wide and varied background?with
experiences including newspaper report-
ing, author, seaman, Government serv-
ice With the NYA, city housing, and
campaign management. Coupled with
his keen insight, remarkable memory,
almost uncanny perception?and, above
all, a sense of responsibility toward his
fellowman and his country, Ed Lybeck
was truly an extraordinary human being.
Ed was buried in Los Angeles yester-
day, and during my trip back, I thought
of his family and countless friends who
share my sorrow and feeling of loneli-
ness. I share these few thoughts with
you because many of my colleagues here
were privileged to know Ed Lybeck and
I am confident they will want to join me
In honoring my beloved friend, and a
great American citizen.
I cannot hope to ever find another Ed
Lybeck?but I can be grateful for the
time together we had, and his memory
will forever remain in my heart.
"TRAIL OF THE LONESOME PINE"
BEGINS SECOND SEASON JULY 1
(Mr. JENNINGS asked and was given
permission to address the House for 1
minute and to revise and extend his
remarks.)
Mr. JENNINGS. Mr. Speaker, I would
like to call to the attention of the Mem-
bers of the 89th Congress, and to place
in the RECORD, information on a most im-
portant event in my district.
On Thursday evening, July 1, the sec-
ond season of a very fine outdoor drama
begins. The "Trail of the Lonesome
Pine" will be staged each Thursday, Fri-
day, and Saturday night from July 1
through September 6, in an amphithea-
ter at the June Tolliver House, Big Stone
Gap, Wise County, Va. This drama is
an adaptation of the famous novel of
John Fox, Jr., by Mr. Earl Hobson Smith,
of Harrogate, Tenn. It was first pro-
duced last year and was excellent in
every respect.
I had the privilege of attending one of
the performances last year. I plan to be
there again on Saturday night to enjoy
the work of the many people who partici-
pate to make this project a success.
I am proud to represent the many
people involved in producing the "Trail
of the Lonesome Pine." They have
planned and performed the entire proj-
ect with ability, initiative, courage, and
spirit that are typical of the people of
the area. It has been, in every sense of
the word, a "bootstrap" effort. The re-
sults have been excellent for the econ-
omy and the success of the project has
strengthened the determination of this
area to promote economic growth and
development. In this instance, they
have produced a fine drama and have
made a very significant contribution to
the culture of the region.
To further explain the pride we have
in this drama, it not only is based upon
a book written by John Fox, Jr., who
lived at Big Stone Gap for many years,
its setting is in Wise County, where the
town of Appalachia is located. We have
all heard of the Appalachian region dur-
ing the past few months. This is a part
of Appalachia and I want my colleagues
to know that we produce fine and tal-
ented people, and that we have a project
here that is all local and has not re-
quired any Government funds. There
has been much discussion about the use
of local scenic attractions and activities
to bring tourists to a specific area as a
means of economic development. This
is being accomplished by the Big Stone
Gap area residents, who have all pitched
in to make this drama a success.
Mr. Speaker, I would hope that many
of my colleagues will find occasion to
travel into the southwest Virginia-east-
ern Kentucky region during the summer.
I would tell them that a most enjoyable
evening can be spent in Wise County,
where the people are friendly, the food
and accommodations are excellent, and
the entertainment at our outdoor drama
superb. I invite and urge them to
attend.
An article on this drama recently ap-
peared in the L. & N. magazine, which is
published by the famous railroad serving
the region. Under leave to extend my
remarks in the RECORD, I include the
major part of this article.
[From the L. & N. magazine, June 1965]
"TRAIL OF THE LONESOME PINE"?M17SICAL
DRAMA WILL OPEN ITS SECOND SEASON IN
JULY
Next month at Big Stone Gap, deep in the
mountains of Virginia, the curtain goes up
on one of America's most unique outdoor
musical dramas.
Based faithfully on the book, "Trail of the
Lonesome Pine," by Kentucky native, John
Fox, Jr., the locally-staged production will
be enacted in a setting that is authentic
right down to the soft whispering of the wind
through the nearby pine trees.
On opening night, July 1, likely all of the
1,000 seats in the amphitheater located on
the lawn behind the June Tolliver House
(more about this later) will be filled. The
drama itself is an effort of those who are
natives of the land where the author lived
and wrote. Even the cast includes a sprink-
ling of some who were born during the
tumultuous, booming days of John Fox, Jr.'s,
stories, and their portrayal of the characters
he created are doubly convincing.
Spearheaded by Mrs. Creed P. Kelly, presi-
dent of the Lonesome Pine Arts and Crafts
Association, the production is being repeated
this summer with high hopes of a season even
more successful than the first one.
"We have gathered together all possible
human resources?talents musical, mechani-
cal, artistic, and dramatic," she said. "We
here in Big Stone Gap are surrounded by
the beauty of our mountains which Mr. Fox
loved so well. With this backdrop, we are
inviting as many visitors as possible to stop
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14724 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD - HOUSE June 30, 1965
by this summer and live again with us, those
days of yore."
The drama has been adapted by Earl Hod-
son Smith, chairman of the speech and
dramatics department, Lincoln Memorial
University, Harrogate, Tenn. It is being pre-
sented through special permission of the
author's sister, Mrs. William Cabell Moore,
the former Elizabeth Fox, only surviving
member of the family, and still a resident of
Big Stone Gap.
All the familiar characters of the book are
in the play: Young June Tolliver; "Devil
Judd" Tolliver, the shotgun-totin' head of
the clan; Bud, Bad Rule, and Cousin Dave
Tolliver; Jack Hale, Red Fox, and many
others. In all, there are more than 25 speak-
ing parts, and the production is augmented
by an 18-voice chorus, numerous square
dancers and assorted musicians, it will be
presented each Thursday, Friday, and Satur-
day evening through September 6.
There is a great deal of John Fox, Jr.,
still in existence at Big Stone Gap. Al-
though he is buried in the family plot in a
cemetery at Paris, Ky., where he was born
(he died in 1919), according to Mrs. Kelly,
his spirit still lingers over the mountains of
southwest Virginia and eastern Kentucky,
an area he loved and where he spent most
of his creative years.
Citizens of Big Stone still talk about the
author as if they half expect to see him come
riding along on horseback, or, at least, come
walking down the street accompanied by one
or more of his dogs. The home in which he
wrote most of his books, still stands near
the edge of town, in a grove of trees, mostly
pines. His sister, Mrs. Moore, has kept his
study and desk just as he left them.
No visit to Big Stone Gap is complete
without a stop at the June Tolliver House on
Jerome and Clinton Streets. Recently pur-
chased by the association, the house has
been carefully restored and furnished
throughout with items of the period. An
upstairs bedroom was occupied by young
June's real-life counterpart when she came
to town to attend school. The house is open
daily except Mondays, and visitors on the
free, conducted tours, may look from the
same window through which June looked
one moonlit night during a romantic episode
in the book.
The association, a nonprofit organization,
is attempting to preserve the cultural herit-
age, crafts and traditions of the proud moun-
tain people of that area. Cla.sses in many
of the creative arts, are held at the June Tol-
liver House, including painting, quilting,
weaving, pottery, ceramics and other crafts
of mountain life, using resources available in
the vicinity. Instructors volunteer their time
and abilities and freely share their knowledge
with others. In a showroom on the first
floor, the handmade articles are on display
and available for purchase. One is assured
of finding authentic items designed and pro-
duced by skilled mountain craftsmen.
There is a lot to see in the John Fox, Jr.,
country, and a visit to this dramatic offering
this summer is a good way to begin a tour
that will take you well "along the Trail of
the Lonesome Pine."
PROPOSED AMENDMENTS TO THE
FAIR LABOR STANDARDS ACT
(Mr. ROOSEVELT asked and was
given permission to extend his remarks
at this point in the RECORD and to in-
clude letters, tables, and materials fur-
nished by the Wage and Hour Division
of the Department of Labor.)
Mr. ROOSEVELT. Mr. Speaker, on
June 15, 1965, I submitted for the RECORD
certain responses of the Department of
Labor to questions raised during present
hearings on proposed amendments to the
Fair Labor Standards Act.
I herewith submit 12 additional re-
sponses, and a supplement to data in the
June 15 RECORD, for the information of
my colleagues and the general public.
I consider this legislation so important,
and its impact so great, that I want to
keep everyone apprised of developments.
I include this data following my re-
marks:
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF LABOR, WAGE
AND HOUR AND PUBLIC CONTRACTS
DIVISIONS,
Washington, D.0 ., June 28, 1965.
Hon. JAMES ROOSEVELT,
General Subcommittee on Labor, Commit-
tee on Education and Labor, U.S. House
of Representatives, Washington, D.C.
DEAR CONGRESSMAN ROOSEVELT: This Com-
pletes our response to the economic ques-
tions raised when Secretary of Labor Wirtz
appeared May 25 and 26 before the sub-
committee to testify in support of HR. 8259
and related bills.
The transmission includes answers raised
with respect to the following:
1. Extent of overtime work in major man-
ufacturing industry groups and in wholesale
trade lines-particularly by low-wage em-
ployees.
2. Plant expansion due to double time.
3. Extent of overtime in industries pro-
posed for coverage under H.R. 8259.
4. Repeal of section 13(a) (15) exemption
for logging employees.
5. Resort hotels-indications of a recent
trend to extending periods of operation.
6. Business failures-recent trends.
7. Tabulation showing employees not now
protected by ELSA and the number who
would be brought under the minimum wage
after enactment of HR. 8259,
8. Full-time student regulations (sec. 14) ,
statement re age limitation.
9. Management trainees-comments on
language in HR. 11838 (88th Cong.).
10. Profits in laundry and drycleaning
plants.
11. Handicapped worker certificates for
the aged.
12. Retail workers under union contracts.
Some questions raised at the hearings with
respect to certain legislative matters are
still being reviewed.
Sincerely yours,
CLARENCE T. LUNDQUIST,
Administrator.
1. EXTENT OF OVERTIME WORK EN MAJOR
MANUFACTURING INDUSTRY GROUPS AND IN
WHOLESALE TRADE LINES-PARTICULARLY BY
LOW-WAGE EMPLOYEES
Reports on the March 1964 nationwide
surveys of manufacturing and wholesale
trade have been transmitted to the Congress.
These reports show not only the extent to
which hours over 40 per week are prevalent
but also the extent to which overtime is
worked by employees at the lower end of
the wage scale.
In the attached table we have listed for
each major manufacturing and wholesale
trade industry group for which separate data
are available the percent of all nonsuper-
visory employees in the group who worked
over 40 hours a week as well as correspond-
ing percents for workers who earned (a) less
than $1.30 an hour, (b) less than $2 an hour,
and (c) $3 or more an hour. In addition,
we have computed average hourly earnings
for employees working over 40 hours a week
as a percent of average hourly earnings of
workers working 40 hours or less.
The data indicate that average straight
time hourly earnings for workers working
overtime were lower than for those who
worked no overtime in 8 of the 14 manu-
facturing groups and in each of the 7 whole-
sale trade lines.
Furthermore, the table shows that in 11 of
the 14 manufacturing groups and in each of
the wholesale lines a significantly greater
proportion of workers who earned $2 or less
an hour worked overtime than was true for
workers earning $3 or more an hour.
Wage relationship between employees working more than 40 hours a week and those working
fewer hours, manufacturing industry groups and wholesale lines, United States, 1i4' arch
1964
Percent
of non-
supervisory
employees
who worked
overtime
Percent of nonsupervisory
employees earning specified
amounts of pay who
worked overtime
Less than
$1.30
Less than
$2
$3 or
more
Average hourly
earnings of
overtime
workers as a
percent of
average hourly
earnings of
employees
working 40
hours or less
Manufacturing industry groups:
Food and kindred products
Tobacco manufactures
Textile mill products_
Apparel and related products
Lumber and wood products
Furniture and fixtures
Paper and allied products
Printing, publishing, and allied industries
Leather and leather products
Stone, clay, and glass products
Fabricated metal products
Machinery, except electrical
Professional instruments
Miscellaneous manufacturing industries
Wholesale trade lines:
Drugs and chemicals
Dry goods and apparel
(iroccries and related products
Farm products-raw materials
Hardware, plumbing, and heating
Machinery, equipment, and supplies
Miscellaneous wholesalers_
39
18
38
18
36
38
41
21
2.5
33
33
35
26
26
31
16
42
34
35
27
32
0)
0)
10
11
5
19
18
12
6
13
7
6
6
11
21
28
8
7
13
44
64
82
76
69
76
20
35
70
37
40
21
22
51
49
64
57
82
53
38
63
(1)
13
5
6
6
12
34
(1)
12
15
25
26
9
6
4
7
2
10
21
13
06.9
89.5
103.0
100,
97.4
87. 1
105.
98.
102.
95.1
95.0
99. I;
105. 11
105.0
93.1;
84. 6
91. 1
86.1.
95.0
91.7
89.6
Less than 5 percent.
NoxE.-Data are shown separately for each group for which they are available.
2. PLANT EXPANSION DUE TO DOUBLE TIME
There have been no studies which indicate
the extent to which a double-time require-
ment would necessitate expansion of plant
facilities. Some witnesses who testified last
year on the double time for overtime pro-
posal indicated that plant capacity is a limit-
ing factor in the hiring of employees.
It should be noted, however, that mos ;
Industries are not operating at full capacity
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It is my firm belief that we must act
with determination to preserve the es-
sential elements of, our national heritage.
We have become a nation that contents
itself with memorializing men and events
in stone and inscription. I feel that it is
time that we turn to more lasting memo-
rials, to the country that has made our
people great. It is necessary for us to act
now to preserve these unspoiled stretches
of natural beauty.
Therefore, I ask unanimous consent
that Mr. Shannon's article be printed
in the RECORD.
There being no objection, the article
was ordered to iye printed in the RECORD,
as follows:
[From the New York (N.Y.) Times, June
28, 1965]
THE CHOICE FOR TIIE NATION'S SEA,CTIORE
is
(B William V. Shannon)
A broad trip of white sand, the ocean
breaking u) on the shore in bright, sparkling
waves, the whole sweep of sand, sea, and sky
just as thousands of years of nature have
produced it?a pure and complete master-
work.
Scenes such as this pose a choice to their
human visitors and nominal owners. Some
Men see them as a trust to be preserved now
and forever undefiled for future generations
to admire. They rejoice that there is no
structure here taller than the craggy dune,
no residents except the birds, wheeling and
soaring, no sound louder than the beating of
.the waves and the low moan of the lone
sea wind.
WHY NOT A HIGHWAY
Other men look upon scenes such as this
and see a perfect route for a six-lane high-
way. They readily calculate how many house
lots they can sell once the bulldozers have
levelled those useless dunes. In their mind's
eye, a luxury motel already stands upon that
lonely promontory. A profitable row of hot-
dog stands, pizza palaces and oozy snack
bars, each carefully identified with its own
neon sign, already rises behind the highway.
Where those gulls now nest, a quite sizable
shopping center could be 'built. In short,
there is almost no limit to what could be
done with it?or to?these seashores once
they are developed.
bn every seacoast of the United States,
men have been making their fateful choice.
There are about 3,700 miles of shoreline, for
example, along the Atlantic and gulf coasts
from Maine to Texas. As late as 1935?only
30 years ago?the National Park Service
surveyed that shoreline and found immense
stretchea of unspoiled beach. It recom-
mended that 12 major strips, containing
437 miles of beach, be preserved as national
seashores. But Congress failed to act. Only
1 of the 12 was saved for the public. Another
survey 10 years ago reported: "All the others,
save one, have long since gone into private
and commercial developments."
Two evils occur when commercial devel-
opment wins out. First, it is unjust that
millions of people be barred from recreation
on the beach by "Private Property" and
"No Trespassing' signs. Access to the sea-
shore should be guarded as a precious pub-
lic right. Secondly, private development
means unbalanced development. It usually
destroys the grass and other vegetation that
are nature's way of protecting the beach it-
self against erosion.
Private cottages line every foot of the
shoreline, depriving the visitor of any chance
to "get awa:y from it all" or to see the shore
in its natural state. Seepage from septic
tanks pollutes the water, ruining the feed-
ing grounds of the birds and killing the shell-
fish. A national seashore, by contrast, can
provide a sensible balance of intensive de-
velopment for recreation and protection of
nature.
ROADBUILDERS BEATEN
In the past decade; people have become
much more aware of what is involved in
the policy choice for the Nation's seashore.
The heedless roadbuilders were defeated and
a Fire Island National Seashore was created.
What could be salvaged on heavily developed
Cape Cod was permanently protected by a
national Seashore there: So Was Padre Island
off Texas.
But the pressures are intense and the com-
mercial developers often win. Such was the
choice made for Marco Island, the largest of
the once wild and, virtually uninhabited
islands off the southwest coast of Florida.
Graced with a magnificent crescent beach of
hard white sand, winding little creeks, fan-
tastically shaped hills of sand and many
snowy egrets and other uncommon birds,
Marco Island was once considered by the Na-
tional Park Service fn_r_ designation as a na-
tional seashore.
rt would have been a priceless national
asset, but Senator HOLLAND of Florida exer-
cised his considerable influence in behalf of
private owners?and so the hard reality of
private profit prevailed over the public inter-
est. Now the glossy advertisements beckon
buyers to the usual seaside cottages.
A similar choice presently exists for Assa-
teague Island off Maryland. Although the
island is a barrier reef, part of which is
under water during heavy storms, 3,000 per-
sons bought house lots on the dunes. Over
their vehement objections, the Senate In-
terior Committee has approved a bill to make
Assa,teague a national seashore. Unfortun-
ately, the committee bowed to the insistance
of Virginia's Senator ROBERTSON and added a
requirement that a through highway be built
from the bridge at the Maryland end to the
bridge at the Virginia end, thus turning this
narrow island into a traffic loop and violat-
ing the heart of the Chincoteague National
Wildlife Refuge.
The choice to be made on this bill is clear.
Indeed, what is also clear is that if Congress
and the American people do not make the
right choice at Assateague and elsewhere
in protecting the Nation's vanishing sea-
shore, there will soon be no choice left to
make. Too many men have too often chosen
to develop primitive beauty into extinction.
Nature affords few remaining opportunities
In the continental United States to see the
masterworks of its daughter, the sea un-
defiled.
ROTTEN BOROUGH AMENDMENTS
SEEK PROTECTION OF MINORITY
INTERESTS THROUGH STALE-
MATED GOVERNMENT
Mr. DOUGLAS. Mr. President, an ex-
pellent statement in opposition to the
antireapportionment amendments has
been submitted to the House Judiciary
Committee by Dean Joseph O'Meara and
Prof. Thomas Broden, Jr., of the Notre
Dame Ldw School.
Their statement makes an important
contribution to the debate on these
amendments, because it points out that
the real purpose of the amendments is
to protect a minority interest, through
stalemated government in the States..
This is an accurate and revealing, de-
scription of the effect of these amend-
ments, should one of them be proposed,
ratified, and implemented.
I ask unanimous consent that the
statement be printed in the RECORD.
There being no objection, the state-
ment was ordered to be printed in the
RECORD, as follows:
14867
STATEMENT BY DEAN JOSEPH O'MEARA AND
THOMAS BRODEN, JR., OF THE NOTRE DAME
LAW SCHOOL, PRESENTED BEFORE THE JUDI-
CIARY COMMITTEE OF THE U.S. HOUSE OF
REPRESENTATIVES ON HOUSE JOINT RESO-
LUTION 2, A PROPOSAL To OVERRULE THE
LATEST SUPREME COURT REAPPORTIONMENT
RULINGS
Mr. Chairman and members of the House
Judiciary Committee, my name is Thomas
Broden, Jr. I. am a member Of the bar of
the State of Indiana and am professor of
law in the Notre Dame Law School. This
statement represents the views of Dean
Joseph O'Meara of the Notre Dame Law
School as well as my own views. I appreciate
the opportunity, you have afforded me to
present views on one of -the Most significant
legal and political issues our Nation has
faced, legislative reapportionment.
It is paradoxical that those who have most
strenuously deplored the plight of State
and local government should now be attack-
ing what Roscoe Drummond calls the single
most important States-rights measure in
the 20th century. The decline and fall of
State and local government in this century
is a national calamity. As Drummond says,
until the Supreme Court of the United States
provided a -judicial remedy, the situation
stalled hopeless. The Supreme Court deci-
sions, requiring fair legislative apportion-
ment, cut through the Gordian knot, cut
through the death grip that a rotten-
borough system had on effective, responsible
action and thus have made possible re-
juvenated, revitalized State government.
What caused the decline of State and local
government? The needs and desires of a
majority of the people have been disregarded
by State legislators. This has happened be-
cause representation in State legislatures
has not reflected the urban and suburban
population shift (often in defiance of con-
stitutional reapportionment mandates) thus
giving to rural or small-town legislators pow-
er to stalemate efforts to respond to the
peoples' needs. Stalemate destroyed the ef-
fectiveness of many State governments.
Anti-Court proposals to overrule Rey-
nolds v. Sims, 84 S. Ct. 1362 (1964) requiring
both houses of State legislatures to be ap-
portioned on a population basis, would re-
turn us to the eta of stalemate. Control
of one house only is sufficient to block legis-
lative action. The adoption of these pro-
posals would be to condemn State govern-
ment forever to the grave of inaction. No
one interested in good State government
can take comfort in these proposals. They
will benefit onjy those who are interested
in weak and ineffective government and the
consequent aggrandizement of national
power. They will benefit only those who
are powerful, we .11thy, and unconcerned, who
did well under and therefore were satisfied
with the situation existing before Reynolds v.
Sims.
All kinds of fancy theoretical reasons have
been put forward to defend this last-ditch
effort to hang onto political domination by a
minority. For example, it is suggested that
nonpopulation factors must be taken into
account in apportioning at least one house
of a State legislature so that adequate pro-
tection may be given to certain special in-
terests, such as rural interests, or property
interests, or interests of persons on one side
of the Rocky Mountains, or interests of one
group of water users, or conservationists, or
industrialists, or fishermen, or citrus grow-
ers, or Spanish-speaking persons, and so on.
And there is no good reason why these in-
terests should be singled out for protection
instead of others such as the interests of
religious groups, or racial groups, or ethnic
groups, or labor, schools, and so on. But
that's the rub. To try to protect all inter-
ests is the aim of proportional representa-
tion, an approach which sounds fine in
theory but is disasterous in practice. What
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14868 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? SENATE June 30, 1965
happens practically is stalemate: to protect
certain special interests, the interests of all
others are sacrificed. The basic assumption
of our democratic system is that through
equal representation the interests of all Will
be as fairly protected as is humanly possible.
No one has yet been able to demonstrate
that it is more important to protect the
interests of a minority, by stalemate, than
to promote the interests of all or as near
thereto as is humanly possible.
The anti-Court forces feel their strongest
argument is the Federal analogy. That is,
that only one house of the Federal Congress
is apportioned on a population basis; and
that the precedent of the Senate, based as
it is on other factors, justifies the States in
so organizing their legislatures. But this is
a totally unwarranted distortion of the Fed-
eral analogy. The system of representation
in the two Houses of the Federal Congress
* * is one conceived out of compromise
and concession indispensable to the estab-
lishment of our Federal republic. So said
the Court in Reynolds v. Sims, but in saying
so the Court merely recognized the signifi-
cance, not of special interests, but of the
States as independent governmental institu-
tions.
So much of the Federal analogy as is valid
the Court has clearly accepted for it has said
that "as long as the basic standard of equality
of population" is maintained, States may
give some independent representation to
political subdivisions to assure them some
voice (84 S.Ct. 1362, 1391) .
We agree with the Court in Reynolds V.
Sims that: "Attempted reliance on the Fed-
eral analogy appears often to be little more
than an after-the-fact rationalization offered
in defense of maladjusted State apportion-
ment arrangements. The original constitu-
tions of 36 of our States provided that
representation in both houses of the State
legislatures would be based completely, or
predominantly, on population. And the
Founding Fathers clearly had on intention
of establishing a pattern or model for the
apportionment of seats in State legislatures
when the system of representation in the
Federal Congress was adopted. Deinonstra-
til,e of this is the fact that the Northwest
Ordinance, adopted in the same year, 1787,
as the Federal Constitution, provided for the
apportionment of seats in territorial legis-
latures solely on the basis of population."
Reynolds v. Sims, far from being an attack
on effective State government, is the key
to such effectiveness. Friends of State's
rights should be defending, not seeking to
overrule it.
This is a time for decision for the States
rights people. If they are for weak local
governments they cannot be against swollen
national power, because that goes right along
with weakness at the local level. So they
could just as well be called big Government
people. In short, it is time for these so-
called States right h or c t bait.
THE OBJ T IN VIETNAM
Mr. RUSSELL of South Carolina.
Mr. President, while brave American
patriots struggle in Vietnam, in the cause
of freedom, much discussion about our
policy there goes on at hone. The
President, in my opinion, has adopted a
courageous course, one worthy of our
support.
I ask consent to have printed in the
RECORD an editorial which was published
recently in a fine newspaper in the capi-
tal city of South Carolina, the Columbia
State. The editorial states, correctly,
that far more than one small, belea-
guered country is at stake in our struggle
in Vietnam. I commend the editorial
to the Members of the Senate.
There being no objection, the editorial
was ordered to be printed in the RECORD,
as follows:
{From the Columbia (SO.) State, June 1/,
19651
THE OBJECT IN VIETNAM
Misgivings among Americans over the long
and extremely difficult siege in Vietnam are
understandable but fail to take into account
the full meaning of our persistence there.
But for this show of the resolve of the
United States to hold back the wave of Com-
munist aggression, other sectors of the world
would /Ong since have fallen into the grip
of Moscow or Peiping.
As Secretary Rusk reminded this week,
these further advances of the Communists
would have been achieved by aggression of
one form or another. They would not have
been initiated by the peoples involved. He
mentioned West Berlin and Iran as victims
had the example of armed force in Vietnam
not been provided.
The action of the United States in south-
east Asia is a costly and complex one indeed.
The situation, defies standard military pro-
cedures. It is conceded that military action
alone probably won't bring a favorable re-
sult. The task is one carrying little encour-
agment. It is likely to go on and on.
Yet the resistance we offer there to ag-
gression has effect far beyond the frustrat-
ing jungles of South Vietnam; it says to the
Communists that other such intrusions
would find the United States moving against
them.
Tri Vietnam more is at stake than that
beleaguered little country.
EFFECT OF CHANGES IN LEAD AND
ZINC IMPORT QUOTA SYSTEM
Mr. ANDERSON. Mr. President, on
June 23, 1964, the U.S. Tariff Commis-
sion convened a public hearing, as part
of a study, requested by the President,
to determine the probable economic effect
on the lead-zinc industry through reduc-
tion or termination of the present im-
port quota system, established on Oc-
tober 1, 1958.
At that hearing, I presented a personal
statement, based on my experience with
this industry in my own State, and also
representing literally years of personal
effort and the efforts of my colleagues in
the Senate to establish a long-range lead-
zinc minerals policy. It was my desire
to help answer the question asked of the
Tariff Commission by the President.
My reaction to his request, particularly
considering the history of the lead-zinc
Industry efforts, was that we should not
only look at the current statistics on pro-
duction and consumption, but also
should try to plan for the next decade,
based on experience gained during the
past 10 to 15 years.
My statement of June 1964 referred
to the fact that the economy of the in-
dustry had improved with increasing
metal consumption; and today I am
happy to report that this trend has con-
tinued; but at that time I also stated
that the entire lead-zinc industry had
not been relieved of the injury which was
the reason for the imposition of quotas
in 1958. During the past year, more
mines have reopened; but I must report
that there still remains a serious ques-
tion as to just how long the current
prosperous period for our domestic lead-
zinc mining industry can continue. As
a result, some mining companies are
hesitant to commit the large expendi-
tures necessary in order to bring new
mines into production?so long as the
industry has no assurance of some logi-
cal import limitations that will modify
the disastrous business cycles which
have been characteristic of our natural-
resource industries, and which in the case
of lead and zinc have been caused by
extensive and unnecessary imports dur-
ing periods of reduced metal consump-
tion.
During the Tariff Commission hearing,
we acknowledged that the present quotas
have mechanical problems; but we em-
phasized the fact that the industry itself
had proposed and supported a system of
flexible lead-zinc quotas which would
provide equitable treatment for the pro-
ducers, the consumers, and the import-
ers. I urged the Tariff Commission to
study this plan; and it was, and is, my
recommendation that this flexible quota
plan be enacted before any change in the
present quota system is made.
The Tariff Commission issued its re-
port on this study on June 8, 1965. It
is quite a document; and all the discus-
sion, all the statistical information, and
their advice to the President, in answer
to his question, are summarized in one
short, but significant, sentence:
Termination of quotas would not likely
have a detrimental effect on domestic lead
and zinc producers unless world demand for
these metals should subside substantially in
relation to world supplies.
This sounds like a rather simple,
straightforward sentence; but I call at-
tention to one extremely important and
significant word?"unless." This word
summarizes the reasoning of my presen-
tation last year to the Tariff Commission.
It combines a basic premise that under
present conditions, in the opinion of the
Tariff Commission, quotas could be re-
moved without injury to the industry;
but the Commission acknowledges that
any future imbalance of world metal
supply, in relation to consumption, will
very likely once again damage our do-
mestic industry; and the closing state-
ment of the report says just this. In
other words the Tariff Commission has
looked into the future. It has noted the
announced expansion of lead and zinc
mine and smelter capacity all around
the world. It realizes that any drop in
world consumption will send the surplus
to the United States, unless we have in
effect a plan to accommodate the imports
needed in iirder to supplement domestic
production.
There are within the executive branch
committees, which are studying this re-
port, to advise the President as to
whether action regarding the quota sys-
tem is warranted at the present time.
I believe that the opinions of those within
the industry itself should be given spe-
cial consideration, as they are naturally
most familiar with the many factors that
can affect the economies here and world-
wide.
My friends in the industry have ad-
vised me that, based on the Tariff Corn-
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-3 JO, 1965 _ CONGRESSIONAL R
in making our State of Oregon a little
better place in which to live.
Ever since I was a little boy I have
received some of my best educational
lessons at fairs. I would not wish to
miss participating in them any year,
subject to my duties in the Senate. Sen-
ators may be sure that I shall try to show
my Devon cattle again this year at our
Oregon State Centennial Fair as well as
the Multnomah County Fair at Gresham,
the Lane County Fair, the Hermiston
Fair, and the Pacific International Live-
stock Show.
Our Oregon State Fair is recognized
as one of the three or four best State
fairs in the Nation. If a livestock
breeder wins top honors at our Oregon
State Fair or at the Pacific Interna-
tional Livestock Show, he is really in
the economic purple when it comes to
sales. For many years, I was on the
board of directors of the Oregon State
Fair Horse Show. We made the very
wise decision many years ago to com-
bine the horse show with a rodeo, and
each year this combined horse show
and rodeo performance sets a high
standard throughout the West. When-
ever I attend meetings of horsemen and
cattlemen throughout the country, I al-
most invariably listen to praises about
the Oregon State Fair Horse Show and
Rodeo events.
The Oregon State Fair is under the
able management of Mr. Howard Maple.
He has made a fine record for our State
fair, and I am pleased to congratulate
him.
Oregon supporters of the Oregon State
Fair have sent to me a resolution, to be
entered in the CONGRESSIONAL RECORD,
calling attention to this year's Oregon
Centennial State Fair. It reads as fol-
lows:
Let it be known that the year 1965 is the
centennial year for the Oregon State Fair,
to be celebrated in that State's capital city
of Salem.
And since this 'is the 100th anniversary of
one of Oregon's most aolorful festivals, let
it be known as one of the the greatest State
fairs ever to be held in the State's 106-year
history.
Since its beginning in 1861, and through-
out its long history when the great Lewis
and Clark Exposition took its place and the
8 years during World War II when it was
discontinued, the Oregon State Fair has been
a statewide event.
In this year of 1965, throughout the great
State of Oregon, the Oregon State Pair Cen-
tennial will be celebrated by the people of
Oregon. It will be one of the largest single
attractions to be held in the State this year
and during its 9-day celebration, it will
be first and foremost in the hearts of all
Oregonians.
I am pleased to call attention to the
coming centennial State fair event in
my State, and I am proud to extend,
through the pages of the CONGRESSIONAL
RECORD,, by spreading this resolution in
the ECORD, a warm and cordial invita-
tion not only to Members of Congress, but
also to lovers of fairs throughout the Na-
tion to visit Oregon this year at the time
? our centennial State fair is being held.
11(64 A A' :4Jc,
ORD? ' N.
WHY WE ARE FIGHTING IN
. .
VIETNAM
Mr. MURPHY. Mr. President, there
Is a great deal of discussion about the
U.S. effort in Vietnam. Mr. Gary Led-
wiclge, who is stationed in Vietnam,
quotes from an article in the Army
Times. Since the article may provide
a better understanding of why we are
really fighting in Vietnam.
I ask unanimous consent that the let-
ter be printed in full in the RECORD.
There being no objection, the letter
was ordered to be printed in the RECORD,
as follows:
APO, SAN FRANCISCO, CALIF.,
April 24, 1965.
HOD- GEORGE MURPHY,
U.S. Senate,
Washington, D.C.
MY DEAR SENATOR MURPHY: There seems to
be a great deal of dissension running ramp-
ant in Congress these days with regard to our
Nation's stand in Vietnam. Although it is
natural and certainly in the American tradi-
tion for each individual to have his own
opinion, I believe there are many who have
lost sight of the real obligations we must ful-
fill. Not thdse to Vietnam or any other
nation, but those to the United States and
the American people.
Since I am not an accomplished orator,
and often find it extremely difficult to ex-
press my thoughts and feelings in either the
written or the spoken word, I have taken the
liberty to quote an article from an old issue
of the Army Times (the author of which is
unknown to me), which I believe should give
our representatives some idea of the real
meaning of our interest in Asia:
"I'm here because the America I represent
has taken a stand here. But that isn't all of
it; that isn't reason enough.
"I-fere in South Vietnam there's battle in
progress?one more - battle in the world's
longest war. This war began a long time ago,
When Marx and Lenin lost contact with real-
ity. This battle here is the current effort of
men who love freedom to put the train of
humanity upright on the track again. I love
freedom and I'm here to help preserve it.
But that's not my only reason.
"My role as an adviser here requires that
I interpret the technology of my experience
for the understanding of those With whom I
work; it asks that I show and tell these peo-
ple here a portion of what the mind of West-
ern man has conceived for himself, and for
all others who may wish to learn. I come
here not really knowing these people, but
wanting to know them. I have come then as
a teacher who wishes to learn. But I have
other reasons.
"I think that man will best be able to real-
ize himself, to pursue and gain happiness, in
an atmosphere of give and take where how
much he gives in effort determines how much
he takes in gain. This environment, I believe,
Is characterized economically by capitalism,
and nurtured politically by democracy. I'm
here then as a proponent of democratic capi-
talism.
"I don't have to agree with all her officials
to be in agreement with the stand my coun-
try has taken here. I don't have to be a
member of the Democratic Party to endorse
the party of the President and his Cabinet
with regard to Vietnam. Nor must I be a
Republican to wonder why wheat was sold
to Russia. I don't have to dislike a south-
ern filibuster in Congress on civil rights; I
don't have to bow low to credos I deeply
despise, and I don't have to guard my home
at night.
000300180016-3
14847
"I don't have to do those things because,
by the fortunate accident of birth in time
and place, I am an American. For my rea-
sons, I have the choice from the things that
America means to me. I can and do exercise
that choice, and it is that which I most ad-
mire in America that I am here to preserve
and protect.
"I am here so that when America wonders
why she prevailed, it will be found that I?
because I loved her?was a reason. But even
these are not all my reasons.
"Because I love, and because I am loved, I
know what love is. I can say knowingly that
I value the people I love, the things I love,
and the ideas I believe in. The value of
these things to me is worth whatever price
I pay. The highest price I can pay is that of
my life. I have brought that life here?
with all its meaning to me as an American
and as a man?but I have not come here
despairingly; I have not come here to lose
my life. To risk it, yes; because the values
it has given me are worth that risk.
"So I have come to this battle to save my
life. And that is reason enough."
This, I believe, sums up the feelings of a
great many members of the Armed Forces,
even those of us who are not at this time
actively engaged in this battle.
I truly wish that I could have expressed
myself in such a manner.
To fight in defense of one's country in time
of war must be horrifying; but to fight and
suffer and die during a time of "peace"?
this is truly a sacrifice.
To those who have fought and died, to
those who now carry the burden of this bat-
tle, we owe not only our physical and mate-
rial support, but far more important?we
owe them our moral and spiritual support.
Were it not for men such as these?men
who are willing to pay the highest price for
freedom, we, as a nation, as a people, should
not prevail.
In the event that this article has not come
to the attention of the Members of the Sen-
ate, I feel that much could be gained by
bringing it before them. I have also asked
Representative AL BELL to read or distribute
it to the Members of the House.
I sincerely believe that this is a worth-
while subject, and that it will provide a
better understanding, for those who need it,
of what we are really fighting to protect in
Vietnam.
With my warmest personal regards and
best wishes for your future success and
happiness, I remain,
Very truly yours,
G. M. LEDWIDGE,
Seventh Aviation Battalion.
NEW JERSEY CITIZENS COMMIT-
TEE FOR HIGHER EDUCATION
Mr. WILLIAMS of New Jersey. Mr.
President?
When industry is seeking a location, the
education environment of the area always
looms high as a factor to consider.
That quotation, by Elmer W. Eng-
strom, president of the Radio Corp. of
America, and vice chairman of the newly
formed Citizens Committee for Higher
Education in New Jersey, aptly states the
need for continued diligence on our part
to the challenge of educating our young
people.
The citizens committee was formed to
examine the increasing educational
needs of the State of New Jersey. I am
sure that the findings of the committee
will be of interest to all the Members of
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14848 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? SENATE June 30, 1965
this body, because the educational de-
mands of our society are common to each
of our 50 States.
The preliminary findings of the com-
mittee show that an estimated 48,000
New Jersey high school graduates will be
seeking to enter college in 1970. The
cost of providing adequate facilities for
these students will be $250 million, of
which $40.1 million has been produced
by a bond issue. These statistics may
seem sterile; but we must translate them
into their meaning to our own sons and
daughters who will be entering college
during this period.
Therefore, I ask unanimous consent
that an article from the June 17 edition
of the Newark Evening News be printed
at this point in the RECORD.
There being no objection, the article
was ordered to be printed in the RECORD,
as follows:
NEEDS or COLLEGES SEEN $210 kinasolf
(By Robert F. Palmer)
Expansion of New Jersey's public college
facilities to meet enrollment increases by
1970 will require a capital investment of $210
million, twice as great as that previously es-
timated, according to the newly formed Citi-
zens Committee for Higher Education.
The new estimate of construction needs
was put forth at a meeting of committee lead-
ers yesterday at the Essex Club to announce
formation of the group and to describe its
campaign to arouse public support for college
expansion.
Henry Chauncey, president of Educational
Testing Service, who Is serving as secretary
of the committee, said that a new study made
especially for the committee had produced
the $210 million figure. The previous esti-
mate of $95 million in unmet needs had been
based on the Strayer report of 1061.
Both Chauncey and Dr. Robert F. Goheen,
president of Princeton University and chair-
man of the committee, declared that the
Strayer report was badly out of date.
CALLED FOR $135 MILLION
The Strayer study found that $135 million
would be required to expand New Jersey's
publicly supported higher education institu-
tions?Rutgers University, the six State col-
leges and Newark College of Engineering?
between 1964 and 1970. Since then, the 1984
college bond issue raised $40.1 million, leav-
ing $95 million to be raised under the Strayer
calculations.
Chauncey emphasized that the new esti-
mate of $210 million in capital funds was
in addition to the $40.1 million produced
by the bond issue. He said that of the $210
million, some $90 million would come from
revenue bonds /or dining halls and dormi-
tories which would be entirely self-liquidat-
ing.
A major reason for the estimate increase,
Chauncey said, was a finding that the Strayer
Report had underestimated the number of
students who would be seeking college ad-
mission in 1970. He said the committee
study had found there will be approximately
48,000 New Jersey high school graduates
wanting to enter college in 1970, compared
with the Strayer estimate of 40,000.
COSTS TO SOAR
Chauncey declared that the expansion of
facilities as suggested by the study would re-
quire a 50 percent increase in operating ex-
penses by 1970.
He declined to elaborate on the study, say-
ing merely that it had been made to give
the committee a general idea of the needs.
He and Dr. Goheen said the committee plans
to initiate a more thorough study, with the
cooperation of the State board of education
and the State department of education, to
determine the precise needs to be met.
The study to be undertaken, Dr. Goheen
said, will form the basis for the committee's
"case" for expansion of public higher educa-
tion that will be used "to lift the sights of
the public and the legislature to the tre-
mendous magnitude of the problem and the
need for action."
Dr. Goheen said the committee, composed
of about 75 leaders of industrial, commercial,
and educational enterprises, would aim to
point up the amount of funds needed an
"leave it to the legislature" to determine hove
to raise it.
He said that the committee?at least as
far as the 11 founding members are con-
ccrned?would favor enactment of a new
broad-base tax, but would refrain from tak-
ing any position on a particular type of tax.
"In New Jersey," Dr. Goheen said, "there
has been a deep-rooted antagonism of a
broad-base tax ? * ? . Happily, we're now in
the position of having two gubernatorial can-
didates who favor a broad-base tax. So, the
situation looks much more promising."
He said he felt confident that as a result
of the committee's campaign "the people of
New Jersey will see the need and will be
willing to put up the money." He said the
campaign would be "relatively quiet" until
after the November elections.
The vice chairmen of the committee, Elmer
W. Engstrom, president of Radio Corp. of
America, and James Hayward, president of
Atlantic City Electric Co., said that improve-
ment of New Jersey's higher education pro-
gram was necessary to attract new industry_
to the State.
"When industry is seeking a location, the
education environment of the area always
looms high as a fabtor to consider," Engstrom
aid.
"A number of industries have rejected New
Jersey because of its inadequate educational
facilities," Hayward L?d.
"VIETNAM LOG: Mfl. BUNDY
AND THE PROFESSORS"
Mr. PROXMIRE. Mr. President, on
Monday night, June 21, six distinguished
and highly qualified American experts
debated our Vietnam policy on national
television.
Literally millions of Americans
watched this debate. It has been widely
discussed. It served an immensely en-
lightening purpose. But unfortunately
it suffered the weakness of all television
broadcasts?its perishability. There is
no publicly available written record.
For this reason, Mr. President, I ask
unanimous consent that a transcript of
this debate be printed at this point in the
RECORD.
There being no objection, the,transcipt
was ordered to be printed in the RECORD,
as follows:
CBS NEWS SPECIAL REPORT: "VIETNAM DIA-
LOG: MR. BUNDY AND THE PROFESSORS,"
JUNE 21, 1965
(Participants: McGeorge Bundy; Profs.
Hans J. Margenthau, Zbygniew K. Brzezin-
ski, and Edmund 0. Clubb; Dr. Guy J.
Pauker; Prof. John D. Donoghue.)
(Moderator, Eric Sevareid; producer, Wil-
liam Small.)
ANNOUNCER. This is the CBS News special
report; live, from the Hall of Nations, George-
town University, Washington, D.C., "Vietnam
Dialog: Mr. Bundy and the Professors."
Here to moderate this 1-hour discussion
is CBS News national correspondent, Eric
Sevareid.
Mr. SEVAREID. Good evening, and welcome
to the audience in this hall, and to the
audience in their homes. The next hour is
an important one, we think, in the history
of television, and quite possibly an impor-
tant one in the current history of this
country.
On the other side of the world the United
States is at war. However you title or de-
fine it, it is war. Vietnam has cost Amer-
ica somewhat around a billion and a
half dollars so far, and several hundred lives.
There is every prospect that these harsh
statistics will climb as this war wears on.
There is some risk at least of a greater
war, possibly involving other powers. But
the costs and risks of fighting this war have
to be measured against the risks and the
costs of not fighting it.
So informed and responsible men have dif-
fered. The spirit of the opposition to our
course in Vietnam was fashioned in the col-
leges of this country. It took the form of
an organization now called the Interuniver-
sity Committee for Debate on Foreign Policy.
Their protest was expressed in a series of
teach-ins around the country this spring.
These culminated in a big gathering here in
Washington on May 15. The Government
official who the protesters most wanted to
hear and to question was Mr. McGeorge
Bundy, Special Assistant to President John-
son for National Security Affairs. Mr. Bundy
was then unable to appear. The President
had sent him to Santo Domingo. But he is
here tonight.
So this hour, then, is a kind of condensed
reprise of that teach-in and confrontation.
Mr. Bundy and the two men on his side of
this argument tonight are not strangers to
the academic world. Nor are the three pro-
fessors on the other side of the argument
strangers to the world of government.
To identify these six men, their faces, their
voices, and their points of view, let me intro-
duce them one at a time, and in so doing
ask each one to state in just a sentence or
two his general position on the Vietnam pal-
icy of the American Government.
First, Mr. McGeorge Bundy, former dean of
the Harvard faculty of arts and sciences, and
Special Assistant to President Kennedy, and
now to President Johnson.
Mr. Bundy.
Mr. BUNDY. Well, I am here partly because
I failed to keep an earlier engagement, partly
because I deeply believe in the process of fair
and open discussion. Most of all because I
believe with all my heart that the policy
which the United States is now following is
the best policy in a difficult and dangerous
situation and the one which best serves our
interests and the interests of the world, the
interest of peace.
Mr. SEVARE/D. Mr. Edmund 0. Clubb, chair-
man of the Columbia University Seminar on
Modern Asia, veteran of a quarter century
In the Foreign Service, with many years as
a diplomat in Asia.
Mr. Clubb.
Mr. Came. Thank you, Mr. Sevareid.
My position is simple. I hold that, first,
the American military intervention in Viet-
nam is in violation of our legal treaty com-
mitments; second, that we cannot win mili-
tarily in Vietnam without virtually annihi-
lating the Vietnamese people, which is no
victory; and third and finally, that our pres-
ent policy and actions are alienating both
Asian and other world sympathy from us,
and thus seriously weakening our global po-
litical position.
Mr. SEVAREID. Mr. Zbygniele K. Brzezinski,
professor of government at Columbia, and
director of the Research Institute on Com-
munist Affairs.
Mr. Brzezinski.
? Mr. BRZEZINSMI. I believe, MT. Sevareid,
that the Vietnamese issue is not just a local
issue. It involves, first of all, an effort by
China to impose its supremacy in the Asian
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June 30, 1965 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD -- SENATE
region, contrary to our interests, and to that
of some of China's Asian neighbors, and
more importantly involves a global issue;
namely, what sort of strategy the inter-
national Communist movement would pur-
sue in our age and who will lead it.
Mr. SEVAREID. Hans J. Morgenthau, profes-
sor of political science of the University of
Chicago and director of the University Cen-
ter for the Study of American Foreign and
Military Policy.
Mr. 1Vloacnrarnau. I am opposed to our
present policy in Vietnam on moral, mili-
tary, political, and general intellectual
grounds. I am convinced that this policy
cannot achieve the desired results and that
quite to the contrary it will create problems
much more serious than those which we
have faced in the recent past.
Mr. SEVAREID., Mr. Guy J. Pauker, former
teacher at Harvard, at MIT, at the Univer-
sity of California, now head of the Asia Sec-
tion of the Social Science Department of
the Rand Corp.
Mr. PAIIICER. I am here, Mr. Sevareid, be-
cause the discussion of Vietnam has gen-
erated so much emotion on the campuses
of American universities that the factual
base Of this dscussion is frequently ignored.
I think that one should bring the facts
back into the discussion.
Mr. SEveutEm. And finally, to John D.
Donoghue, associate professor of anthro-
pology, Michigan State University, former
research professor in Japan and adviser on
administration in flagon and I believe in
various Villages of Vietnam.
Mr. DonocnnE. Two years experience in
Vietnam, much of this time spent in villages,
have made one thing clear to me. Those who
make American policy do not understand
and, therefore, are unable to cope construc-
tively with the human discontent that pro-
duces revolutionary movement in developing
countries.
We must reaffirm the revolutionary dedica-
tion to freedom that gave birth to this
Nation.
Mr. SEVAREID. Well, gentlemen, and mem-
bers of this audience we thought we would
try to divide this discussion to follow into
four rather large encompassing questions or
aspeets of the whole Vietnam problem. And
the first question is, "Why?what are the
legal and moral and political reasons or
justifications for the American presence in
Vietnam?why are we there?"
Let's begin with Mr. Bundy.
Mr. Bunny, Well, Mr. Sevareid, I think the
best way, the shortest and the most accurate
way for me to state the reasons for our
presence in Vietnam is to take just a moment
to read from the President's speech of April 7,
at Johns Hopkins in Baltimore, because there
Is no more authoritative statement of our
position.
"We are there," he said, "because we have
a promise to keep. Since 1954 every Amer-
ican President has offered support to the
people of South Vietnam. We have helped
to build and we have helped to defend.
Thus over many years we have made a na-
tional pledge to help South Vietnam defend
its independence. To dishonor that pledge,
to abandon this small and brave nation to
its enemy and to the terror that must follow
would be an unforgiveable wrong." So the
first point is that we have a commitment,
Matured through time, made for good rea-
sons, and sustained for the same reasons.
We are also there, the President went on,
"to strengthen world order. Around the
globe, from Berlin to Thailand, are people
whose well-being rests in part on the belief
they can count on us if they are attacked.
To leave Vietnam to its fate would shake
the confidence of all these people in the
value of American commitment. The result
Would be increased unrest and instability
or even war."
No. 118 24
And the President went on to set the
stakes in terms of the problem in Asia itself.
"We are also there," he said, "because
there are great stakes in the balance. Let
no one think that retreat from Vietnam
would bring an end to conflict. The battle
would be renewed in one country and then
another. The central lesson of our time is
that the appetite of aggression is never
satisfied. To withdraw from one battlefield
means only to prepare for the next."
"Our objective," he said?anti this is per-
haps in the end the defining point immedi-
ately of the contest?"our objective is the
independence of South Vietnam and its free-
dom from attack. We want nothing for our-
selves?only that the people of South Viet-
nam be allowed to guide their own country
in their own way."
Mr. Szvarmin. I am going to ask the other
side now for an opening statement on this
part of the question, from Mr. Clubb. And
then we will go to, I hope, general discussion
of it.
Mr. Clubb.
Mr. CLuzs. Mr. Bundy, of course, presented
a principal argument that is offered?name-
ly, that in Vietnam the United States is fol-
lowing a policy laid down in 1954. This by
itself is inadequate warrant. Lord Salisbury
has said that one of the commonest forms
of error in politics is the sticking to the car-
cass of dead policies. The U.S. Government
has not been unguilty of that particular
error.
The 1954 Dulles proposals for the contain-
ment of Asian communism by massive retal-
iation and brinkmanship had adverse effects
at the time for the global American political
,position.
The present strategy, be it noted, differs
somewhat from the Dulles doctrine. First,
the military retaliation at the present time
is measured. But there is another diver-
gence. Second, in the 1950's, Gen. Douglas
MacArthur and President Eisenhower both
warned against our fighting a land war in
Asia. But Washington now indicates that it
is possibly headed in that direction.
There is a correlary argument that is
offered?it is said that we are in South Viet-
nam in any event in service of solemn
treaty engagements. The 1951 SEATO
Treaty extended a defensive umbrella over
South Vietnam. And it is said the Saigon
Government, or perhaps I had better say a
Saigon Government, has asked for our help.
A State Department legal adviser said re-
cently that criticism charging that the
United States had violated the Organization
of American States Charter reflected a fun-
damentalist point of view with regard to
international law.
Well, I am a fundamentalist. I believe
that treaties mean what they say. And I
believe that treaty signatories are bound by
their provisions. And I refer to three treaties
in this general connection.
One, the United States helped to create
the Kellogg-Briand Pact of 1928, designed to
outlaw war forever. And the United States
by that treaty renounced war as an instru-
ment of national policy.
Second, the United Nations Charter com-
mits the United States, among other signa-
tories, to settle its international disputes by
peaceful means in such a manner that inter-
national peace and security and justice are
not endangered.
Third, the SEATO Treaty itself. The
United States bound itself by the treaty pro-
vision to consult with its treaty allies re-
garding an aggressor's armed attack or any
situation which might endanger peace of
the treaty area in order to agree on the meas-
ures to be taken for the common defense.
SEATO decisions authorizing our military
actions do not appear on the public record.
Without formal authorization of the SEATO
organization, we are not entitled to rely on
the SEATO Treaty for our legal sanction.
14849
Mr. SEVAREID. Mr. Clubb, if you go much
further on this, I think you are going to
absorb nearly all the time left for this sec-
tion of this debate. And I would like, if you
Will excuse me, to break in at this point and
ask if I have a rejoinder over here, as to how
and why we got into Vietnam.
Mr. BUNDY% Well, let me say first, going
back through Mr. Clubb's argument, that I
think there is no legal justification for an
assertion that you cannot act to meet com-
mitments under the SEATO Treaty without
an authorizing vote. The treaty does not
say that. The provisions of the treaty do
not require that. And it seems to me quite
clear that the United States is acting within
the legal and moral commitments of the
SEATO Treaty.
Going back further, the United Nations
Charter explicitly provides for the right of
individual and collective self-defense, and.
the United States has complied with those
provisions of the charter which require that
actions taken under that clause be reported
to the United Nations, and it is surely not
the fault of the United States that there is
adamant opposition on the Communist side
to any further engagement of the United Na-
tions in this contest. That may be enough
for my share, Mr. Sevareid.
Mr, SEVAREID. I think Dr. Hans Morgenthau
was giving me a sign a moment ago.
Mr. MORGENTHAU. Well, I NVOUld offer two
political arguments against the official posi-
tion that we are in Vietnam in order to
honor a commitment, and that we are there
in order to defend the freedom of South
Vietnam, that we cannot let South Vietnam
down.
First of all, one should not overlook the
fact that it was we who installed the first
government in Saigon, the Diem government.
In other words, the state of South Vietnam
is in a sense our own creation?for without
our support the regime in Saigon could not
have lasted for any length of time.
So when we say we must keep a promise,
we have really made a promise to our own
agents. In a sense, we have contracted with
ourselves, and I do_not regard this as a valid
foundation for our presence in South Viet-
nam.
Furthermore, even if it were otherwise, I
refer you to the statement which Alexander
Hamilton made on the occasion of the neu-
trality proclamation of Washington in 1793,
when the United States had an obvious and
undoubted treaty agreement to the effect
that it must come to the aid of France if
France is engaged in a war in Europe. And
Hamilton, in a definitive fashion, laid down
the principle that no nation is obligated to
endanger its own interests, let alone its own
existence, in order to come to the aid of
another nation.
Secondly, it is obvious from the facts of
the situation?I welcome Mr. Pauker's in-
vocation of the fact?that we are quite un-
welcome in South Vietnam. There is an
abundance of reports to the effect that what
most of the South Vietnamese want is to
be left alone, and that they would be de-
lighted to see us depart.
A month ago, for instance, the Vietnamese
correspondent of the Economist, a very re-
spectable periodical of Great Britain, re-
ported that the slogan which makes the
rounds in Saigon is "Yanks, fight your wars
elsewhere."
Mr. SEVAREID. We have about 2 minutes left
on this question. Can you usefully make
use of it, Mr. Brzezinski?
Mr. BRZEZINSKI. I will try. I would like to
make two points: one, that it seems to me
one cannot assess the Vietnamese issue purely
in the terms of the specifics of the Viet-
namese history, Geneva Convention, and so
forth.
It seems to me that we are involved here in
the very basic process a trying to create
international stability, a process which we
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undertook as we had to in Europe in the
late 1940's and the process which I think is
now in its beginnings in Asia where condi-
tions are far less stable; our engagements
therefore are much more difficult and compli-
cated. Nonetheless, I do not see how the
United States could abstain from becoming
involved in this process. Otherwise, all of
Asia would become rapidly destabilized and
there are a great many Asian nations which
see a major interest for themselves in Amer-
ica's continued presence in Vietnam as a
bulwark.
Secondly, on the specific point whether
the Vietnamese want us to get out. Obvi-
ously, after 10 years of civil war the para-
mount desire is for peace. But I do not
believe that the paramount desire is for a
Communist takeover. Anyone familiar with
warfare knows that when an army suffers the
kind of casualties the South Vietnamese
Army suffered someone is doing some very
good fighting. They are not defending, but
dying and fighting and this I think is a
major indicator of the commitment and of
their loyalty.
Mr. SEVAREID. Mr. Brzezinski, I would like
to go to the second question that we dis-
cussed before, and this is a little more
specific.
What is the fundamental nature of this
war? Is it aggression from North Vietnam
or is it basically a civil war between the
peoples of South Vietnam?
Let's start with Dr. Morgenthau.
Dr. MORGENTHAU. I would say, it was also
the official position until February of this
year that the major problem was a political
problem in South Vietnam. And I remem-
ber very well at the end of 1955 when I had
a long discussion with President Diem that
I pointed to the likelihood that his policies
would lead to the breakdown of his regime
and to a general alienation of the popula-
tion with the Communists profiting there-
from. So what we had at the beginning,
and it is obvious when you look at the de-
velopment of the civil war in South Vietnam,
yet, at the beginning, a revolt, especially of
the peasants against the Diem regime and
from 1959, 1960 onward, the North Viet-
namese Government, to an ever-increasing
extent, aided and abetted this revolt. So I
find it rather farfetched up to recent
months, of course, in recent months since
our extension of the war in the North Viet-
nam situation has changed, but up to Feb-
ruary, I find it rather farfetched to speak of
aggression for the north. What you had was
a revolt in the south aided and abetted from
the north.
Mr. SEvarcsin. I think Mr. Brzezinski, you
wanted to come in there, or was it Dr.
Pauker?
Mr. PAUKER. I welcome Professor Morgen-
thau's acceptance of the factual basis of our
discussion. The documents captured from
the Vietcong and the statements of Vietcong
prisoners, defectors, and civilians who have
fled from Vietcong-controlled areas proved
to me beyond reasonable doubt that guer-
rilla warfare operations in South Vietnam
had been envisioned by the Communist gov-
ernment of North Vietnam as early as 1954.
Let's recall the facts. At that time after
8 years of war against the French the Viet-
minh troops were longing to go home to their
villages and families in the south. In spite
of this some 90,000 Vietminh fighters of
South Vietnam were not allowed to return to
their homes but were sent to North Vietnam
to be used in case the Hanoi Government
did not succeed in staging a Communist
takeover in the south by peaceful political
means under the cover of the Geneva agree-
ments. These men from the south were in-
doctrinated politically and trained militar-
ily for several years in North Vietnam. From
1960 to date, about a third of this group
as well as several thousand men born in the
north have infiltrated into South Vietnam
mostly through Laos across the so-called Ho
Chi-minh trail. Almost half of these men
are members of the Vietnamese Communist
Party.
They formed a cadre that is the hard core
of the dedicated fighters.of the revolutionary
war against the government in Saigon. They
are the ones who are taking advantage of the
many problems prevailing in South Vietnam
as in any transitional society?recruit, train,
indoctrinate and lead in combat a younger
generation of South Vietnamese villagers.
Of course, the South Vietnamese villagers
who have become the bulk of the Vietcong
fighting force are recruited not only by naked
coercion, but also by a range of appeals ex-
ploiting general and local grievances, but they
do not understand that the grand strategy
of the Communist leaders in North Vietnam
is aimed precisely at aggravating these local
grievances and preventing any non-Commu-
nist government in South Vietnam from cop-
ing with them.
Hanoi's grand strategy has been the fol-
lowing: After 1956 terrorists' assassinations
of village officials disrupted the administra-
tive machinery of the South Vietnamese Gov-
ernment, weakened Saigon's control of the
countryside and created general uneasiness
and fear. Then, beginning in 1959, increas-
ing harassment through attacks on South
Vietnamese army posts, and ambushes of
small units prevented the Saigon govern-
ment in many parts of the country from pro-
tecting the population against Vietcong
coercion. To reestablish the balance, the
South Vietnamese Government had to appeal
to the United States and other friendly coun-
tries for increasing amounts of military as-
sistance.
The presence of foreign military forces
can now be exploited by Communist prop-
aganda so as to inflame and capture Viet-
namese nationalist sentiment in the villages.
The young Vietcong recruits see themselves
engaged in what the Communists like to call
a war of national liberation, but they do not
understand that the national liberation front
of South Vietnam itself is only a facade.
The ultimate purpose of the Hanoi govern-
ment is to establish in the South a totali-
tarian rule of the Vietnamese Communist
Party. Therefore, in answer to your ques-
tion, Mr. Sevareid, the evidence mainly, cap-
tured documents of statements of Vietcong
prisoners and defectors makes it clear to
roe that this is indeed aggression from
North Vietnam, but carefully staged so as
to make Communist revolutionary war ap-
pear as a spontaneous grassroots revolt of
the people of South Vietnam.
Mr. SEVAREID. Mr. Pauker, thank you. One
man who has spent a good deal of time in
the countryside of Vietnam is Mr. Donoghue
and I would like to hear from him.
Mr. DONOGHUE. I went to Vietnam to help
teach and train people in the National In-
stitute of Administration there, how to do
research in villages. Therefore, I spent
quite a bit of time in both South Vietnam
and central Vietnam, so my view of this
whole problem is from the village, from the
people. And other reports that I have read
corroborate my findings.
Generally speaking, the programs that
were initiated all during the Diem regime
were initiated by Western-educated, elite
people in Saigon and then pushed out into
the villages. The villagers were village
chiefs who were appointed by the Saigon
Government, were poorly trained and unable
to carry out these programs.
As a result, the village chiefs resorted to
terror and coercion in order to get the peas-
ants to work on certain kinds of programs.
The members of anti-Government groups
counterthreatened these appointed chiefs
and as a result the chiefs and people in the
villages were caught in the middle between
Government coercion on the one hand and
coercion of other groups on the other hand.
Vietcong propaganda played into this and
the idea of this was that if we get rid of the
Americans and if we get rid of the Govern-
ment that we will ultimately gain freedom.
People-- believed rightly or wrongly that the
Vietcong were the protectors against the
coercion of a dictatorial Government that
was located far, far away in Saigon.
In the research that we did we found no
evidence of northern aggression. Undoubt-
edly, there was moral support from the North
and as was pointed out more recently mate-
rial aid. Nothing, of course, comparable to
the American aid.
Our research indicated that the biggest
problem in Vietnam was the alienation of
the peasants from the Saigon Government.
Thus, I view this as a civil war with most
peasants against the Government that we
support with the help of the north and
most recently the whole thing aimed against
foreign interference which they claim stands
in the way of national liberation.
The Government in Saigon is not repre-
sentative of a large majority of peasants
who are backing a popular movement for
liberation from foreign domination. And
by our backing them I feel as though we
are violating our legal and moral commit-
ments to the principles of self-determina-
tion.
Mr. SEVAREID. We've got about maybe a
minute or a minute and a half on this sec-
tion of the argument and I was about to
suggest that Mr. Bundy, you might want to
speak to this.
Mr. BUNDY. I would like to make two
points on what Professor Morgenthau said.
First, be implied that the U.S. Govern-
ment has changed its tune on this point
within the last few months which is in my
judgment simply wrong.
I would like to read just two short quota-
tions as samples. Here is an example from
a news conference of Secretary Rusk in No-
vember 1961: "The determined and ruth-
less campaign of propaganda infiltration and
subversion by the Communist regime in
North Vietnam to destroy the Republic of
South Vietnam and subjugate its peoples is
a threat to the peace."
There couldn't be a clearer statement of
a position which has been repeated a num-
ber of times.
I could go right through a whole series of
statements which President Johnson and be-
fore him, President Kennedy, have made on
this. But more compelling evidence in a
way is what the Communists themselves say
about it.
In 1959 Ho Chi-minh announced in an
article in the Belgian Communist organ:
"We are building socialism in South Vietnam,
but we are building it in only one part of
the country while in the other part we still
have to direct and bring to a close the middle-
class democratic and anti-imperialist revolu-
tion," and again in 1963 the North Viet-
namese Communist Party organ stated quite
simply, authorities in South Vietnam,"
it was speaking of, "are well aware that Viet-
nam is the firm base for the southern revolu-
tion and the point on which it leans and ,
that our party is the steady and experienced
vanguard unit of the working class and peo-
ple and is the brain and factor that decides
all victories of the revolution."
We really shouldn't argue about this point
because the evidence is overwhelming.
Mr. SEVAREID. Gentlemen, we are about
halfway into this discussion and I would like
to turn to our third topic or question and
this is a large one:
"What are the implications of this Vietnam
struggle in terms of the whole rise and fu-
ture of communism in Asia as a whole, par-
ticularly in terms of Communist China's
power and aims and future actions?"
Who would like to start on this? Profes-
sor Morgenthau?
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DT. MORGENTHAU. It is of course correct to
Say, that, one cannot look at the Vietnamese
situation in isolation from our overall policy
in Asia and in isolation from the overall
policy in Asia of our enemies, And here
come back to what we have discussed before.
We are really in Vietnam not because we
must honor a commitment or because we
want to help the people of South Vietnam
who rely on us: We are there because We
want to contain communism. And I have
no quotation to read from, but I have a
very good memory. (Laughter.]
I remember well that for instance the Sec-
retary of Defense has said, and I think quite
correctly, that we are in South Vietnam in
order to stop communism, and if we don't
stop it there we will have to stop it else-
where, and some people have gone so far as
to say if we don't fight in Vietnam we haVe
to fight in Hawaii or perhaps in California.
Now, we are really in Vietnam as part?
yes?part and parcel of the Containment pol-
icy, military containment policy which was
eminently successful in Europe against the
Soviet Union and in my view is hound to
fail in Asia against China. For the situa-
tion in China?pardon me, the situation in
Asia is fundamentally different from the sit-
uation in Europe.
In Europe you could thaw a line acros,s a
map and tell the Soviet Union, "Until here
and not farther!' And behind tbat line on
our side you had viable social, political, eco-
nomic, and military units. Nothing of the
kind exists in Asia and secondly and most
importantly, the Russian threat was pri-
marily a military threat and against this
threat the policy of military containment
was indeed adequate and successful.
The threat of China is primarily a political
threat and nothing we do in South Vietnam
or don't do in South Vietnam is going to
make any difference with regard to the
Potency of such threat in the rest of the
world. We may hold South Vietnam. We
May win a victory in South Vietnam. This
means nothing with regard to whether or not
Indonesia will go Communist, or an area, in
Africa will go Communist, or Colombia will
go Communist.
In other words, we have the success of our
policy of military containment in Europe
that has left us into the fallacy to apply the
same instruments to a situation which is
entirely different and where such instru-
ments cannot succeed.
' Mr. SEVAREID. Mr. Brzezinski?
Mr. BRZEZINSKI. I would like to suggest
respectfully that Professor Morgenthau is
wrong in his analysis of Asia and of Europe.
[Laughter.]
It seems to me that if we go back to the
years 1945-48, the problem in Europe was
not only a military problem. It was also po-
litical and an ideological problem. The
Communist guerrillas came within 40 miles
of Athens.
Communists, riots, activities in France and
Italy were on the verge of success, In both
cases the response was not only military but
Involved the political, social, and economic
effort to create stability.
Now, granted the proposition that this un-
dertaking is much more difficult in Asia, but
If in Asia it is only political and not a mili-
tary problem, then why all the fuss about the
military response and its alleged danger? It
is precisely because it is both a military, a
political, and social problem in Asia that the
United States has to remain engaged, for
there is no other major power in the world
which has the resources, the wherewithal to
provide both military stability and economic,
social, political development.
If the United States becomes disengaged
because of a military defeat in southeast
Asia, then how can it make its presence felt
In a positive sense economically and socially?
I will submit to you that we have some
major achievements to our record in Asia
already. We have contributed to social sta-
bility and political development in Japan,
in Taiwan, in Thailand, in India, which
wants us to stay in South Vietnam, in Paki-
stan, and I think this task ought to go on.
Moreover, and I think this is extremely
Important, it relates to the general condi-
tion of the international Communist move-
ment. 9
We have to continue this undertaking for,
if we fail, then in the international Com-
munist movement itself, the Chinese line
would have been proven correct; namely, that
by fomenting the national liberation
struggle, linking it to social unrest and or-
ganizing a political movement, you can
qualitatively change the course of history.
Peng-chin in his recent speech, which I
recommend to you, developed at length?
Mr. MORGENTHAU. Communist propaganda.
Mr. BazsziNsta. This is a very major
statement developing at length the Chinese
conception of the present international
scene and it is a complete alternative to the
Soviet conception, it rejects a notion that
such confrontation can escalate into local
and global war. It is based on the premise
that the United States has neither capacity
nor the will to react effectively and it is an
attempt in the course of this undertaking to
pressure the Soviets to emulate the Chinese.
I believe that if we now disengage from
Asia, which I think?which I take it is the
course, the brunt of the remarks of the
Chinese will have been proven right and this
will be a highly destabilized condition for
world peace in general.
Dr. MORGENTHAU. Could we state OUT Own
position? We didn't ask Mr. Brzezinski to re-
state it for us. He certainly has said some-
thing which I wouldn't have said, and I
never have said. But we come to this a little
bit later.
I want to make only one point and that is,
that if Mr. Brzezinski's analysis is correct,
it is quite astounding that the Chinese are
obviously most eager to have us continue the
war in South Vietnam. They are the ones
Which oppose any kind of negotiations which
might lead to some kind of settlement, but
they seem to be enormously eager to increase
our commitment and I must say if I were a
Chinese statesman I would be very eager, too,
because it is exactly because we are here in
a blind alley, it is exactly because?it would
be very difficult for us to, win a military
victory and even if we win it, it means noth-
ing politically. And because the military
and political situation is so unfavorable to
us, the Chinese are delighted to see us fight
In Vietnam.
Mr. SEVAREID. I was turning to Mr. Clubb.
I think I have got a minute or two to allow
on this side again. Mr. Clubb. Mr. Clubb,
would you like to?
Mr. Crusts. Yes, I should like to make a
comment.
I think that the situation in Vietnam is
different from the situation in Thailand,
India, Japan, or other places. I think that
given the fighting there, it is, say, a particu-
lar and peculiar situation that we have to
attend to only. And the error in our con-
sideration of that is, I believe, the basic as-
sumption that South Vietnamese, Vietcong,
are subject to the control of Hanoi, that
Hanoi is under the influence of Peiping, and
that we should take one side or another in
the Peiping-Moscow dispute.
In actuality, it appears to me that the
nationalism of the Vietnamese is something
Which would prove an element of consider-
able strength against China, ultimately, that
we should attend to that and disregard China
at this particular moment.
Mr. SEVAREID. Mr. Bundy, would you care
to speak to this part?
Mr. BUNDY. I think the point to be made,
and it is one which really takes us to the
question of what Professor Morgenthau's
real position is that, as lie states it, no par-
ticular point is worth defending. I think
also, that he gravely misstates the policy
of the United. States in Vietnam when he
asserts, I think on quite incomplete, and as
far as I know, with no citation, that our
policy is merely to contain communism
everywhere and that we do not have a
specific interest, sustained and important in
victory in South Vietnam and I can suggest
to him the importance I think of this point
by remarking simply that it seems as pike-
staff to me that if we are successful there
the effects will be constructive and helpful
all around southeast Asia and on even wider
framework.
Mr. SEVAREID. We have a half second.
Mr. Donoghue?
Mr. DONOGHUE. Well, the point is, I do
not think we are going to win in South
Vietnam and therefore if what these gentle-
men say is true, then I think I am quite
frightened.
Mr. Bazszisrsta. I don't accept Mr. Gold-
water's conception that if you cannot win
the alternative is total defeat. There is
such a thing as a military stalemate out of
which arrangements can eventually develop.
It seems there is a third way.
Mr. SEVAREID. All right.
Mr. BUNDY. There is also an enormous dif-
ference between doing the very best you
can within the framework of your legitimate
Interests and commitments and quitting too
soon.
Mr. PAUKER. The one point that hasn't
been brought in?revolutionary war is a new
political-military technique that uses the
tensions that exist in all new countries in
Asia and Africa for the advancement of the
cause of the group that foments this move-
ment. Without the tensions it couldn't be
done, but to say this is purely a nationalist
movement doesn't make sense. You talk to
the Vietcong and they tell you without the
help of the North, the front movement would
not be reached?would not have reached its
present proportion. I read you from one
such statement, the front controls only a
small portion of the population. Therefore,
the supply given to the fronts by the people
is rather inadequate from the point of view
of labor, material, and financial resources,
the front is weak from the point of view of
armament, the front does not have the
facilities to produce arms and has to rely on
the supplies from the North. It was stated
in April by a Vietcong cadre.
Mr, SEVAREID. We have about 30 seconds.
Mr. DONOGHUE. I don't think that you have
ever talked to a Vietcong because they are
very, very difficult to find them. They are
very difficult to find because I looked all over
for them.
Mr. PAUKER. You were there in 1960.
Mr. DONOGHUE. 1962.
Mr. PAITKER. I was there every year from
1954 to last November. I talked to many
Vietcong.
Mr. DONOGHUE. They are very difficult to
find and they are clothed, they are housed,
they are fed and they are supplied and they
are hidden by the peasants in Vietnam.
Mr. SEVAREID. Gentlemen--
Mr. PAUKER. That is not the debate.
Mr. SEVAREID. I think we might very use-
fully spend the rest of this hour on the
fourth and final question we had on our
minds before we began and that is the ques-
tion of alternatives to o,ur present policy in
Vietnam.
What are these alternatives? Let me start
with Mr. Bundy.
Mr. BUNDY. Well, there are a number of
alternatives.
Let me begin by pointing out that the al-
ternative which is more important than the
one presented by these gentlemen in terms
of real choices and in terms of levels of sup-
port by the United States and in terms of
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V 852 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? SENATE June 30, 1965
the level of our interest there, and one which
has been rejected by the administration is
the general and less restrained carrying of
the war ever farther northward without re-
gard to cities or population or boundaries or
to what country you are choosing to attack
or the view that airpower will somehow
settle this thing, that there is no issue in
South Vietnam. That is not the policy of
the administration. That policy was pro-
posed in certain quarters in 1964. It was
rejected, it is still rejected. There is a very
interesting and important issue in, a more
important one in terms of the sentiment of
the American people in the general proposal
moving toward withdrawal which I take to
be, although they were stated for themselves,
the position of the gentlemen opposite.
Within the framework of the choices avail-
able to us, we can move without restraint
against those who have engaged in this
aggression from the north. We can move
toward withdrawal without regard to our
obligations to those in South Vietnam or
the political consequences in other countries.
We can stay roughly where we are in es-
sentially the passive role or we can carefully
and with a choice of specific ways and means
move to sustain our part and it can only be
our part of a contest which is of great im-
portance to us as it is to the people of Viet-
nam.
It is not for me, on this occasion, to discuss
specifically what steps may come in the
future. I think it is fair to say that the
position of the administration, and I think
the position of a solid and very strong ma-
jority of the Congress and of the people, is
that we should stay there, that we should do
our part, as may become necessary, do only
what is necessary, bear in mind that the cen-
ter of the contest is in South Vietnam
though there is more aggression from the
north, and seek constantly, as we have for
months and months, to find a way to get this
dangerous and difficult business to the con-
ference room.
Mr. SEVAREID. Mr. Bundy, has the adminis-
tration changed its views about negotiating
at any level, at any time, with the Vietcong?
Mr. BUNDY. The administration's position
is that we will negotiate with governments.
Now, there is no barrier to serious negotia-
tions in this question of the Vietcong. The
Vietcong have traveled for years on North
Vietnamese passports. It is not a difficulty
from their point of view if they are ready to
see a negotiation, to pass the signal to
friends, supporters, and I say directors and
controllers. It is not the question of who
sits for the Communists that stands in the
way of a conference.
Mr. SEVAREID. I want to get clear that we
would negotiate with the Vietcong as long as
they are legitimately established--
Mr. BUNDy. That is not a question which
stands in the way of a conference. We pro-
pose to discuss this matter with govern-
ments.
Mr. SEVAREID. Mr. Clubb.
Mr. Cause. Yes; I should like to make a
point.
The absolute alternatives to war and de-
struction are, of course, peace and construc-
tion, and the administration, I gather, agrees
with those aims.
However, the administration has been indi-
cating conditions, if you will, people with
whom we will negotiate, or discuss, and
people with whom we will not.
The question is how to achieve the peace
we all desire. And this brings up another
question.
Since South Vietnam is a sovereign coun-
try, by the observations of Washington, who
lays down the conditions for peace?Wash-
ington or Saigon?
That appears to me as an important ques-
tion. It would suggest that we are on our
side of the table moving toward withdrawal.
None of us, I think, propose simple with-
drawal without negotiation, anything like
that. Moving toward withdrawal?I think
the administration would not hold that we
plan to remain there forever. In the event
that there were a peace agreement, presum-
ably it might make some provision for Amer-
ican withdrawal. In circumstances like that,
we might have to face up to the necessity of
going.
There was one observation made a long
time ago by Horace Walpole, who said that
it is easier perhaps to conquer Asia than to
kno ,v what to do with it. We might apply
it to Vietnam.
Mc, SEVAREID. Gentlemen, this is free and
open, now.
Mr. PAUAER. I would like to end my pre-
vious argument with Mr, Donoghue. One
cannot refer to 1960 or 1962 field work in
order to know what the situation is today.
Nobody denies, Mr. Donoghue, that the
Vietcong gets support from the villages.
The question is under what conditions and
how the atmosphere in the villages itself is
Changing.
The Vietcong at the time that you were
there, were fairly well received in the vil-
lages. The Vietcong are increasingly con-
sidered a heavy burden by the villages.
Their taxation rate is higher than it was
around that time, and the villages are be-
ginning to be quite tired with what is going
on in the villages.
Now, there is, I think, a difference between
an organized and well disciplined elite, and
a feeling of the whole population. And I
think that none of us with the training
we have should speak about "the Vietnamese
say." One cannot go to Saigon and talk
to the proverbial taxi driver and claim to
speak for all groups.
Mr. SEVAREID. Mr. Pauker, I would like to
get back to this question of the alternative
te our policy. And I think Dr. Morgenthau
has something on his mind.
Mr. MORGENTHAU. There are I think theo-
retically speaking five alternatives which are
before us.
We can get out, without further ado.
Second, we can?we don't need to oppose
moves which in the past have been made
by the Government in Saigon to come to
an understanding with the Vietcong which
would lead to-our departure on their invita-
tion, and the invitation of the Government
In Saigon.
Third, we can greatly increase the air at-
tacks going farther and farther north.
Fourth, we can greatly increase our com-
mitment on land by sending a couple of hun-
dred thousand, or as Mr. Hanson Baldwin
suggested, a million men to Vietnam. Or
we can, as Senator FULBRIGHT recently sug-
gested, try to hold a few strong points on
the coast of Vietnam, proving to the Viet-
cong that they cannot win a military vic-
tory, and on that basis try to negotiate with
them in the fall.
Now, my personal position, which must
come as a surprise to some listeners here,
is that Mr. FULDRIGHT'S position is by far the
most acceptable from my point of view.
I think our aim must be to get out of Viet-
nam, but to get out of it with honor.
I would indeed?I have indeed always be-
lieved that it is impossible for a great pow-
er which must take care of its prestige to
admit in so many words that its policy has
been mistaken during the last 10 years and
leave the theater of operation. But there
are all kinds of face-saving devices by which
a nation or a government which has made
a series of mistakes can rectify the situa-
tion, and I think President de Gaulle has
shown how to go about this with regard
to Algeria. And certainly if you look at the
prestige of France today, it is certainly high-
er than it was when France fought in Indo-
china.
If I may just say one sentence about the
previous discussion about the fact. It is,
of course, obvious, and it has been obvious
to me all along, that the Gvernment lives in
a different factual world from the factual
world in which its critics live. It is an open
question who is psychotic in this respect,
Who has created a kind of a quasi-world in
which he lives.
But I would call the attention to the fact
that my view of the facts is certainly sup-
ported by all of those observers from neutral
or friendly countries who have been in Viet-
nam, who have lived with the Vietcong. I
remind you of the articles in L'Express by
Mr. Chauffard, I remind you of the articles
In the Figaro by its correspondent. I remind
you of the articles in the Economist. They
all support my general view of what the
factual situation in Vietnam is.
And I should also say that the factual
situation, the deterioration of the military
situation is infinitely graver than we have
been made to believe on the basis of official
and nonofficial reports.
You see, for instance, the desertion rate
of the Vietnamese Army in recent months
has been enormous. Generally it has been
said that the recruits desert at the rate of
30 percent. But around Da Nang, in the war
zone, 40 percent of the combatant units have
in recent weeks defected.
Mr BUNDY. I simply have to break in, if I
may, Mr. Sevareid, and' say that I think
that Professor Morgenthau was wrong on
his facts as to the desertion rates, wrong in
his summary of the Chauffard and Express
articles, wrong in his view of what the
economist says, and I am sorry to say giv-
ing vent to his congenital pessimism with
respect to these matters And I want to
take a moment to give you direct quotations
to show what I mean.
In 1956 Professor Morgenthau wrote of
Western Europe: "Communism is far from
defeated in Western Europe, and the Mar-
shall plan is partly to blame for that failure.
The dangers to the stability and strength
of Western Europe which have grown in the
past and the defects of that structure have
continued to grow, because those defects
were not repaired. The Marshall plan almost
completely lost sight of those roots of in-
stability and unrest which antedated the
emergency and were bound to operate after
Its was over."
And it is only 9 years later that he tells
us that "the Marshall plan was eminently
successful in Europe" and that to the west
of that boundary there lay an ancient civil-
ization which was but temporarily in dis-
array and which proved itself capable of
containing Communist subversion.
And closer to home, just 4 years ago, Pro-
fessor Morgenthau wrote about Laos two
things which are interesting.
"As these lines are being written, early
June, the Communist domination of Laos
is virtually a foregone conclusion." And
reading the mind of the administration he
went on to say, "The administration has
reconciled itself to the loss of Laos."
Now, neither of those things is true,
neither of them has happened, neither of
them corresponds to the reality of the polit-
ical situation in southeast Asia.
Mr. MORGENTHAU. I may have been dead
wrong on Laos, but it doesn't prove that I
am dead wrong on Vietnam.
Mr. SEVAREID. Since this has become some-
thing of a personal confrontation I think
Professor Morgenthau should have a small
chance at least to answer Mr. Bundy.
First I would like to hear from Mr. Brze-
zinski for about 1 minute.
Mr. BRZEZINSKI. All right?I would like
to make basically four points, in 1 minute.
It seems to me very important to keep
making it very clear we are not trying to
overthrow the North Vietnamese Govern-
ment. In other words, there is no effort here
to roll back the Communist world. Because
I think this has effects on the Soviet at-
titude and elsewhere.
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June 30, 1965 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? SENATE 14853
? Second, we have to make it very clear that
we ourselves are not going to be thrown out
of South Vietnam, because this eventually
can create preconditions for negotiations.
And I believe we can do this in spite of the
apocalyptic predictions by some people that
this will lead to a world war with China or
with the Soviet Union or to a homogeneous
Communist world.
Third. I _think we have to strive in the
long run to seperate the North Vietnamese
interest from the Chinese interest, and that
interest can be separated when the North
Vietnamese leaders begin to realize that the
war in the south does not give them victory
but does give them mounting destruction in
the north which the Chinese are perfectly
willing to afford, because they would like to
see this war continue.
" And lastly, we ought to try to maintain
contact with the more moderate section of
the Communist world, stimulate trade with
them, greater contacts, so that they them-
selves will see an interest in stability and
Will try to use their influence on the more
--revolutionary wing of the Communist move-
ment, or if not then at least will be com-
pelled to separate thenelves from it, indeed
as a result of mounting Chinese attacks on
them as remit indications point.
Mr. SEVAREID. A long but very fascinating
1. minute, Mr. 13rzezinski. Thank you very
Much.
Now, I do think Professor Morgenthau
ought to have a chance to respond to the
direct criticism made by Mr. Bundy at this
time.
Mr. MORGENTHAU. I admire the efficiency
of Mr. Bundy's office?
Mr. BUNDY. I do my own.
Mr. Mosommiew. Oh, well, I am honored
by the selected Quotations from my writings.
As I have said before, nobody?privately
has said this?nobody who deals with foreign
policy professionally can be always right.
Obviously one makes mistakes. And I prob-
ably was too pessimistic about Laos. But not
terribly more pessimistic than the situation
warranted.
I should also say, to quote a great man,
that I have not always been wrong. And
especially when it comes to Vietnam, Mr.
Bundy might have quoted certain things I
Wrote in 1981 and 1962 or quoted what I wrote
at the end of 1955 after my interview with
President Diem about what the future of
South Vietnam might be.
So I think no useful purpose is served by
pointing to one mistake, and I admit freely
that I have made mistakes, I have made many
more than Mr. Bundy has found?but I have
not always been wrong. And in any case it
is no argument to say this man has been
wrong about Laos, how can he be right on
Vietnam
Mr. Roisunr. Actually what Mr. Morgenthau
said abobt Vietnam in 1956?this is the one
I happen to have here?was that a miracle
had been wrought under President Diem.
Mr. MQRGENTHAU. I stand by that. All
right.
, Mr. SEVAREID. I don't know whether they
are in agreement at this point or not, at least
about their disagreement. I think we have
got about 2 minutes here.
I thought we would close between Mr.
Bundy and Mr. Morgenthau, but we have
played a little game of checkers and jumped
over that.
I would like to hear from Mr. Clubb, I
think, and then from Mr. Pauker.
Mr. CLUBB. I think the record of predic-
tions in Washington is none too good. So
perhaps we ought to abandon that particular
line of thought.
I should like to get back to the matter of
alternative's.
It was suggested that we perhaps should
seek face-saving devices. We may just drop
the face-saving?although it seems to be im-
portant. And here I should say that those
three treaties that I remarked are really
applicable, and one way that we can get out
of the present predicament, if we choose to
do so, is to consult with our allies and friends,
and if no better other approach offers itself,
bring the matter officially before the United
Nations to the end that peace might be re-
stored to this unhappy land in Vietnam and
the hungry people of that war-torn land be
helped to proceed with economic reconstruc-
tion and economic progress for enjoyment of
the, human happiness now denied them.
Mr. SEVAREID. Mr. Pauker, I think we have
got about one-half a minute,
Mr. PALIKER. Thank you. I have to speak
fast.
If you go to Vietnam now, Mr. Donoghue,
and try to speak to one of these hard to find
Vietcong, he would tell you what this man
said in April to one of my friends. He said,
"I came to understand now how the Viet-
cong transformed the people into machines,
devoid of all thought," and that is why he
defected. Then he was asked what would
the front do. And he said, "The front, after
it takes over the Government, will continue
to maintain South Vietnam as a neutral
country. It was announced that the South
belongs to the North or to the Communist
bloc. If the front does, the Americans would
have an excuse to return to South Vietnam.
This is the Vietcong scheme. Later on the
Vietcong will gradually transform the south
into a Communist state. That is clear."
Mr. SEVAREID. Gentleman, television time-
ing is somewhat inexorable. I will have to
cut this off. I didn't known we would end
up somewhere in a village in South Vietnam,
but here we are. The hour is gone.
I want to thank all of these gentlemen
very much, and this audience for coming out
on this warm night.
This is Eric Sevareid in Washington. Good
night.
SERVICEMAN STATES LACK OF GI
BILL IS FALSE ECONOMY
Mr. YARBOROUGH. Mr. President,
failure of the administration to give its
full and active support to the Cold War
G.I. education bill is causing an unrea-
sonable delay in the prompt enactment
of this necessary legislation.
I ask unanimous consent that there
be printed in the RECORD a letter from
Lt. Thomas J. Byrnes, A.P.O. New York,
N.Y., in support of the G.I. bill. The
letter is dated June 3, 1965, and ex-
presses the keen dissatisfaction of many
hundreds of thousands of young men
and young women in both civilian and
military life with the administration's
Position to date on Senate bill 9, the Cold
War G.I. education bill.
There being no objection, the letter
was ordered to be printed in the RECORD,
as follows:
CLASS B AGENT, 45TH FIN. SEC.,
New York, N.Y., June 3, 1965.
The Honorable R. W. YARBOROUGH,
Chairman, Subcommittee on Veterans'
Affairs U.S. Senate, Washington, D.C.
DEAR Sin: Thank you for your reply to my
letter supporting passage of a GT Bill of
Rights. I was pleased to read in the Stars
and Stripes that the Senate Labor and Pub-
lic Welfare Committee has approved this bill
and that there are more than 40 cosponsors
of this legislation. It was a bit perplexed
to read that this legislation is not fully sup-
ported by the administration on the basis
that it would be too expeneiVe and would
serve to discourage re-enlistments.
would like to state that I don't under-
stand how an administration' which has de-
dared war on poverty and is in the process of
sending bills to Congress which call for the
expenditure of millions on the Peace Corps,
the Job CorPs, education, medicare and
foreign aid can say that this bill would be too
expensive. When it comes to helping men
who have given some of the best years of
their life in the service of their country, it
becomes a, matter of it being too costly. We
give funds to students through the National
Defense Loans and Grants but we can't afford
to give the Men who stand day after day on
the frontiers of freedom some help when they
complete their service because it costs too
much. Something is definitely wrong with
this standard of values.
In answer to the other voiced objection of
the administration to this bill I would like
to State that after almost 4 years in the
service,' in which time I have discussed re-
enlistment and extension of service with
Many of my fellow officers and subordinates
I have found that the reasons given for not
staying in the Army are seldom related to
the money they are paid or the greater op-
portunities that are available to them as
civilians. Most men come into the Army
with the intention of rendering the service
they feel they are privileged to be able to
give in order to keep our country free and
strong. Those men have no intention of
making it a career and there isn't much
chance that anything will change their mind.
Those who are undecided or who intend to
stay on, leave for many reasons and I will
mention a few. Perhaps they are disheart-
ened by the fact that they can't get adequate
housing for their family on post for at least
a year in most cases; and if they decide to
get a home on the economy they have to
pay exorbitant rent for furnished apartments
because their weight allowance doesn't per-
mit them to bring their own furniture. The
weight allowances are limited because Gov-
,ernment-furnished housing is supposedly
available. Maybe they have had to wait 3
or 4 hours with a sick child before a doctor
gets to see them. Maybe they have had to
wait 3 or 4 months between appointments
for dental care for themselves or their de-
pendents. It's my opinion that if the Army
were to use its MOS test system and com-
manders' rating as a basis for promotions as
the Navy does, one of the biggest obstacles
to retention would be eliminated.
I hope that you will consider my objec-
tions to the reasoning of the Administration
in this matter and that you will consider
them when legislation is presented to Con-
gress for passage.
Sincerely yours,
THOMAS J. BYRNES,
First Lieutenant FC.
THE BALTIC STATES: A TRIBUTE
Mr. WILLIAMS of New Jersey. Mr.
President, 25 years ago, Lithuania and
her sister Baltic States, Latvia .and
Estonia, were invaded by Soviet military
forces. Within a matter of a few weeks,
all three states were incorporated into
the U.S.S.R. as constituent republics.
On this occasion, we pay tribute to a
gifted and heroic people who in their
national life had sought no more than
to live in peace and security. During
the interwar period, the Lithuanians
accomplished a great deal. Their state
had every right to continue in freedom
and independence.
But, international politics being what
they are, small natioris are more often
than not the pawns of the great powers;
and in the case of the Baltic peoples, this
generalization is truly applicable. The
Baltic States declared their neutrality in
the European war that broke out in 1939;
but Soviet expansionist interests had to
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14854 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? SENATE June 30, 1965
be satisfied?and satisfied they were, at
the expense of the Baltic peoples.
'We honor the Lithuanian people; and
we honor also their Baltic neighbors who
share a common fate. Let us all pray
that their hopes and expectations for
the future will become a reality, and that
once again they will enjoy the fruits of
liberty.
PROBLEMS OF ALLIANCE OPERA-
TIONS AND THE CRISIS IN NATO
Mr. JACKSON. Mr. President, in its
study of the conduct of national security
policy, the Subcommittee on National
Security and International Operations
this week received from Prof. Richard E.
Neustadt perceptive testimony on the
problems of alliance operations and the
crisis in NATO.
An eminent analyst of the Presidency,
the author of "Presidential Power"-
1960?and a consultant to President
Kennedy and to President Johnson,
Richard Neustadt is a professor of gov-
ernment at Harvard University and is
associate dean of the Harvard Graduate
School of Public Administration.
I believe Professor Neustadt's initial
statement at our hearing on June 29 will
be of special interest to all Senators, and
also to other Government officials in
Washington and to many private citizens.
Therefore, I ask unanimous consent that
the statement be printed at this point
in the RECORD.
There being no objection, the state-
ment was ordered to be printed in the
RECORD, as follows:
STATEMENT BEFORE SIJBCOMMrrTES ON NA-
TIONAL SECURITY AND INTERNATIONAL
OPERATIONS
(By Richard E. Neustadt, professor of gov-
ernment at Harvard University, June 29,
1965)
Mr. Chairman, members of the subcom-
mittee, I take your invitation to appear
today as a command which I obey with
pleasure and appreciation. This is, for me,
a rather sentimental occasion, having been
associated with your work, from time to
time, since the first "Jackson Subcommittee"
got its start 6 years ago. Also, this occa-
sion lets rue emphasize again the gratitude
of those of us who teach in universities for
your assistance to our work these past 6
years.
Whether you know it or not?and I expect
you do?the academic specialists in policy
development lean heavily upon you as a
source of reading matter for their students.
Your subcommittee documents appear rou-
tinely in the reading lists and reference
books assigned to college classes across the
country. There is no comparable source of
information and appraisal on the conduct
of our Government in foreign affairs. So, on
behalf of all of us who teach, and for our
students: Thanks.
You have asked me to consider and to
comment on ideas and issues raised in the
initial Memorandum of April 26, with which
you opened this new phase of your con-
tinuing inquiry. So far as I am able I am
happy to respond, but I am conscious of two
limitations as I do so. Let me tell you what
these are:
First, the memorandum bristles with ques-
tions, many of them basic, penetrating ques-
tions?any many of these penetrate beyond
my range of observation or analysis. They
Impress me very much as the right questions
to ask. But I do not impress myself at all
as the man with the right answers. Indeed,
I have no ready answers.
My professional preoccupation, as you
knowipas been what someone recently called
"Presi,aent watching"? to which, of late I've
added as a hobby a bit of intermittent Prime
Minister watching. But no one save a Presi-
dent or Premier really can be expert on the
Conduct of their offices. And not even a
President knows half of what goes on be-
neath him and around him in our govern-
mental world, to say nothing of other gov-
ernments. As an observer?for the most
part an observer from outside?I know a
great deal less'. So all I have to offer are
Some personal reflections drawn from limited
observation.
Second. I appear here at a moment when
our Government is struggling with the very
sharp dilemmas of two complicated crisis
Operations overseas, while academic criticism
of them both mounts higher than at any
time I can remember since the regime of the
late John Foster Dulles. But even though
I come here with an academic title, I've no
stomach for the role of critic-of-the-moment.
Nothing I shall say here passes judgment
on our current operations. I have enough
experience in Government to know how
much I do not know, from the outside,
about the issues of Vietnam and the Do-
minican Republic as those present them-
selves to our decision-makers. And I have too
much sympathy for men who bear the
burdens of decision to allow myself the lux-
ury of current criticism without current
information.
So much for limitations. Now for your
memorandum: I find in it two fresh con-
ceptions which strike me as particularly
worth pursuing. The first of these is what
you have called operational feasibility. The
second relates to alliance operations. Let me
deal with each in turn.
OPERATIONAL FEASIBILITY
Your memorandum states:
"Top policy officers tend to pay a great
deal of attention to what is called political
feasibility. They also need to give a great
deal of attention to what we might call op-
erational feasibility. Is the plan of action
do-able, in terms of real men * * * given the
realistic limitations of knowledge, resources,
and organizations with which they must
make do?"
The distinction you suggest here is im-
portant. Government decisions, action de-
cisions, the decisions which accrete into what
we call public policy, always involve weigh-
ing the desirable against the feasible. The
public officer at every action-level asks him-
self not only what but also how, consider-
ing not only goals but also ways and means,
and then he calculates his chances to secure
the means. Consciously or not, the man in
public office has to make that calculation
every time he contemplates an action. (The
academic man does not, which frequently
accounts for differences between them.)
And it is fair, I think, to say what your
statement implies, namely that our public
officers have generally inclined to make the
calculation without bothering their heads
too much about administrative means. Gen-
erally speaking, they have tended to assume
that if they could secure political assent,
they could invent, or improvise, or some-
how force the requisite responses from the
men who actually would do the work, in
Government and out. The great machines
of management would surely manage some-
how, if the necessary sectors of the public,
or the press, or Congress, or the Cabinet, as
the case might be, were acquiescent.
That assumption probably has roots deep
In our history: Americans have often im-
provised the means to do what nobody had
done before. We invented federalism, won
the west, conducted civil war on an unprece-
dented scale, coped with immigration, mas-
tered mass production, built the Panama
Canal.
And since the start of World War II, when
we began to fashion our defense and our
diplomacy in modern terms, we frequently
have followed the assumption in those
spheres as well, with consequences which
appear to prove it out. Witness Franklin
Roosevelt's war-production targets, and lend
lease, or Harry Truman's aid to Greece, the
Marshall plan, the Berlin airlift, NATO. In
instances like these, a calculation of admin-
istrative prospects from the standpoint of
existing capabilities or past performance
would have been depressing, to say the least.
Happily, the men who made such calcula-
tions at the time?and drew from them the
counsel of inaction?were overruled by Pres-
idents with faith that we could improvise.
In these instances, and others of the sort,
the faith was justified.
But faith was helped by fortune in these
cases. Running through them all were cer-
tain favoring conditions. These were in-
stances when we espoused a large objective,
simple in conception, easily identified and
understood by managers at many levels,
bearing some analogy to previous experience,
and calling for an effort of great scale, not
great precision. These were, moreover, cases
where the need was plain enough to spur the
effort. An overriding menace to our country
was personified in Hitler, then in Stalin.
And where we had to work through govern-
ments abroad, their operators saw the men-
ace too, and saw it in our terms, and even
more so. Also we were favored rather often
by good luck: Tito's break with Stalin, for
example, cost the Greek guerrillas an im-
portant sanctuary.
Such favoring conditions, I suspect, be-
come prerequisites for an effective outcome
of decisions which take management on
faith. Unfortunately, these conditions are
not always present. In their absence, por-
tions of ,our record since the war wear quite
a different look than do the instances just
cited. They wear a look of ineffectuality.
Here too, the issues of administrative feasi-
bility were not pursued until after decisions
had been taken. But here the consequences
were unhappy. Faith in our capacity to im-
provise is justified, it seems, under par-
ticular conditions, and not otherwise.
Let me cite a few examples on the un-
successful side: consider Roosevelt's war-
time aim, from 1942, that we should occupy
a northern zone in Germany, extending to
Berlin. Or take what is supposed to have
been his decision that we should not let the
French return to Indochina. Or think of
Truman trying to conduct a limited war with
General MacArthur as his agent. Or look
at Eisenhower trying in the last year of his
term to move toward a d?nte with Soviet
Russia. Or take Kennedy's endeavor in the
first weeks of his term to undermine the
government of Cuba.
In all these cases we had qualified objec-
tives, subtle aims based on a line of reason-
ing and on anticipations which were far
from fully understood by operators in our
own or other governments, and often were
not shared by those who did perceive them.
Subtlety was matched by strangeness; we
were trying to accomplish unfamiliar things
in unaccustomed ways. Effective f 0110w-
through would have required great preci-
sion in obtaining information and coordi-
nating action on the part of the American
bureaucracy. It also would have called for
great precision in relating our own actions
to the acts of other governments. But
large-scale organizations find it hard to be
precise. And it is hardest when they tackle
novel tasks for obscure reasons.
The Korean war provides perhaps the most
dramatic instances where our decision-
makers took too much for granted on the side
of operational feasibility. In the fall of
1950 there were few things Truman wanted
less than a severe and costly clash with the
Chinese. But to assure himself that he
could minimize the cost would have required
him to override the then prevailing military
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June 30, 19U5 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? HOUSE 14747
portedly wants to be mayor after Wag-
ner. " Poverty Corporation, which he
head, ultimately would have 16 poverty cen-
ters, providing unusual opportunity to set
up a widespread patronage Machine. * ? ?
Convinced city must retain strong control
over' where, how its money is spent. * "
Feels 140 buckled under presiure, first ap-
proving 11-6 formula for city control of cor-
poration, then saying city hall must give in-
digenous poor, community leaders greater
powers. * * * Sus he offered to turn en-
tire poverty program over to voluntary and
sectarian community organizations' last week
but they refused. * * *' Heard reports about
possible trouble at Haryou-Aar but, after
playing heavy in investigation at Mobilization
for Youth, has chosen to stay out of this one.
Dr. Kenneth Clark: professor of psychol-
ogy at City College whose work was cited in
the 1954 school esegregation decision. * * *
"Father" of 614-page research document,
"Youth in the Ghetto," considered to be a
masterful documentation of poverty in Har-
lem. * * ''' Former director of j;laryou but
lost out in struggle for control of Harlem
antipoverty program. * * * His reported
fight with Congressman POWELL for control
ended with the naming of Livingston Win-
gate as executive director of Haryou-ACT
* * * A merger of Haryou with the Asso-
ciated Community Teams, which Represen-
tative POWELL reportedly controlled. * * *
Has plans for his own poverty program for
selected young people in Harlem.
Rev. Dr. David W. Barry: Executive direc-
tor of the New York City Mission Society,
a nondenominational missionary organiza-
tion that concentrates its efforts in "diffi-
cult" urban areas. * * * Assistant treasurer
and member of the board of Haryou-ACT,
*. * * An outspoken critic of "secrecy" con-
cerning city's poverty proposals. * * *
Favors greater participation by poor in de-
sign, review, and carrying out of poverty
programs. * * * Sees Economic Oppor-
tunity Act as just a more "sophisticated
brand of welfare" unless this is done. * * *
Has never seen the "hand of Congressman"
POWELL in any of Haryou-ACT's programs
or policies. * * * Feels that Haryou-ACT
is doing a good job and that charges of
wrongdoing are "nonsense."
Anne Roberts: Staff director of the city's
antipoverty operations board, she receives
$22,500 a year, has been caught in the mid..
dl in most of the battles raging around the
city's war against poverty. * * * Her office
did big job in March in finishing city's mam-
moth $10.5 million request to 0E0 including
outline for poverty centers since has seen
program become a political football. * * *
City haIl refers most press questions about
program to her office, rarely provides her
with necessary answers. * * * Also has
heard about rumors of trouble at Haryou-
ACT but lacks auth' desire to do any-
thing about them.
OUR GOAL IN VIETNAM: LAW AND
ORDER THROUGH SELF-GOVERN-
MENT
(Mr. MOLTER (at the request of Mr.
FoLEy) was granted permission to extend
his remarks at this point in the RECORD
and to include extraneous matter.)
Mr. MULTER. Mr. Speaker, through
all the smoke created by the small fires
built by the administration's critics one
thing can still be seen: we must not let
the Communists win in Vietnam.
Support for this policy is stated very
succinctly in the following editorial from
the June 24, 1965, edition of the New
York Journal American and the June 20,
1965, editorial broadcast by station
WMAL here in Washington:
[From the New York journal American,
June 24, 19651
THE PROFS
The TV debate in which Presidential as-
sistant McGeorge Bundy upheld President
Johnson's Vietnam policy against three aca-
demic critics had one heartening aspect.
The critics, headed by Prof. Hans Morgen-
thau, of Chicago University, took the line in
general that the United States had no busi-
ness being in Vietnam and ought to clear
out. There was nothing startlingly new-
about that. It is the line followed in those
slanted "teach-ins."
What was encouraging was the appearance
of another professor in support of the John-
son policy. He is Zbygniew Brzezinski, di-
rector of the Research Institute on Commu-
nist Affairs at Columbia University--in brief,
an expert.
He made the point that the Vietnam war
was not just a local issue but one of far-
reaching consequences to the stability of the
world and inside the Communist world.
He went on to say that unless the United
Stater, resisted communism in Vietnam effec-
tively, Communist China would win the
argument with the Soviet Union about the
best way to proceed against the Western
World, and would foment further trouble
throughout the world.
Applause from here, professor.
VIETNAM
(An editorial broadcast by WMAL, Washing-
ton, D.C., June 20, 1965)
What started as a small-scale military
advisory unit in South Vietnam has grown
into a full-scale military operation. In an
area a little larger than Florida, we are
now firmly committed to a war that must
be won.
Some people apparently are still confused
about our basic policy in southeast Asia.
The President has frequently stated that our
goal in Vietnam is to help establish law
and order through self-governrnent without
Communist intervention. The goal is sim-
ple and easy to understand. Unfortunately,
it is very difficult to achieve. However, it
can be reached if everyone pulls together
and supports the President's policy in
Vietnam.
MINING INDUSTRY EXECUTIVE
EXAMINES NEED FOR A NATIONAL
MINERALS POLICY
(Mr. ASPINALL (at the request of
Mr. FOLEY) was granted permission to
extend his remarks at this point in the
RECORD and to include extraneous
matter.)
Mr. ASPINALL. Mr. Speaker, from
time to time I have discussed before this
body the need for a national minerals
policy and the need for specific policies
with regard to specific minerals. Today
I would like to bring to the attention of
the Members of the House of Representa-
tives the remarks on this subject that
were made by one of the outstanding
leaders of the mining industry in the
United States.
Speaking before the Central Appala-
chiaa Section of the American Institute
of Mining, Metallurgical, and Petroleum
Engineers at Abingdon, Va., June 18,
1965, Lindsay F. Johnson, vice president
of the New Jersey Zinc Co., made a very
perceptive analysis of the current sit-
uation.
Under leave previously granted, I in-
clude the text of his remarks at this
point in the RECORD and urge all Mem-
bers to read it:
GOVERNMENT POLICIES AS RELATED TO THE
U.S. MINING INDUSTRY
(Talk given by Lindsey F. Johnson, vice
president, the New Jersey Zinc Co., before
the Central Appalachian Section of the
American Institute of Mining, Metallurgi-
cal, and Petroleum Engineers, at Abing-
don, Va., June 18, 1965)
The advertised subject for discussion today
Is "Government Policies as Related to the
U.S. Mining Industry."
I am sure you all realize the impossibility
of even beginning to attack that subject
in any specific detail in the 15 or 20 minutes
available to us at this time. So, I am going
to have to discuss it in broad rather than
specific terms.
And rather than dealing with any particu-
lar matter of policy or any particular segment
of U.S. mining, I would like to talk more
generally about the nature and character of
Government policy as it relates to your
chosen field of endeavor.
Before I proceed further permit me to
dwell- for a moment on a matter of defini-
tion and possibly a question of semantics.
The words I wish to deal with are, first,
"policy," and, second, "position."
I believe it will be accepted that when we
speak of a policy, as, for example, a Govern-
ment policy, generally we envision some-
thing that has been reached and consolidated
after careful study and a weighing of all
the factors bearing on the subject, past,
present, and future, insofar as they can be
seen. A policy, whether one agrees or dis-
agrees with it, is not something to be taken
lightly, nor is it something that one believes
is easily subject -to change. There seems to
be a certain permanence to policy.
On the other hand, when we speak of a
position, as, for example, the Government
position, we do not necessarily envision
something with the same degree of solidity
or permanence as policy. Positions are some-
times taken without benefit of thorough
study and analysis. Positions are often sub-
ject to change. We know that even the
Government changes its position frequently
from day to day.
Accordingly, I will refer mostly to the
Government's position in relation to U.S.
mining, rather than the Government's pol-
icy, because I do not believe the Government
as a'whole has a well-studied and well-con-
ceived program that warrants the classifica-
tion of policy with respect to mining. Fur-
thermore, I have a fervent hope that the
Government's position can and will be
changed.
It is my hope that I can leave with you to-
day an awareness that the Government's pol-
icy, or rather the Government's position, cov-
ers the U.S. mining industry like a blanket,
an awareness that impact on your industry
can originate from quite unsuspected sources
within the Government, an awareness that,
unfortunately, as we see it today, the Gov-
ernment position fails fully to recognize in-
herent economic and technical problems of
your industry.
It is my further hope that growing from
that awareness there will be a desire on your
part to learn more about these Government
positions and to seek a place of influence in
bringing to bear on the policymakers or
position takers more of the facts of life as
you see them from your knowledgeable posi-
tion.
I think there can be only agreement with
the principle that the rise of the United
States as a nation to its position of eminence
in technical, economic, and political matters
in a relatively short span of a couple hun-
dred years has been due to a foundation of
abundant natural resources and the will and
skill to find, develop, recover, and utilize
them.
For many, many decades in the early his-
tory of our Nation the will to undertake the
financial and physical risks of finding and
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14748 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? HOUSE June 30, 1965
recovering minerals was stimulated by the
need for them in a growing economy.
Such Government policy as evolved in this
period seems to have supported the idea that
it was best for our needs to be supplied by
winning natural resources within our own
borders and that it was in the national in-
terest to encourage such winning as a profit-
able and important segment of our national
economy.
We find in these modern times, however,
a greatly different and, to my mind, alarm-
ing philosophy that appears to guide Gov-
ernment policy or positions.
If one examines in detail the current
Government position with respect to such
matters as accessibility of public lands for
mineral exploration and development, Gov-
ernment stockpiles of metals, a trend toward
free trade by elimination of tariffs and
quotas heretofore considered necessary and
desirable, an apparent willingness to desert
domestic sources for a reckless dependence
on foreign sources for vital raw materials,
the conclusion must be that Government
policy today at best merely tolerates domes-
tic mining; it Aces not seem to accept it as
a vital part of our national economy that
should be encouraged to stability and stimu-
lated to further growth.
These are harsh and disappointing con-
clusions, and we must ask ourselves why
they should have to be made.
This in turn requires us to look to those
who make the policies or take the positions,
or fail to make policies or take positions,
and in the motivations that are involved.
As in the case of Government policy on
most matters, policy or positions with respect
to the U.S. mining industry originate or are
consolidated mostly within the executive
branch of the Government. Importantly,
however, policy can be, and continually is,
expressed by the Congress, and we can be
mighty thankful for that. Otherwise, we
would be completely submerged by bureauc-
racy, and it is well known that even the
Congress sometimes has difficulty penetrat-
ing the doctrinaire positions that have
become a way of life in some departments
of the executive branch. But more later on
that and the current efforts of the Congress
in this regard.
When we come to appraise the executive
departments that have to do with positions
related to domestic mining, oddly enough we
have to look at the State Department first.
One may well ask, "What does the State
Department have to do with mining in the
United States?"
Much of the answer lies in the fact that
overall mineral needs of the United States
involve not only supplies from domestic
sources but supplies from abroad. Of some
things we have none; for example, tin. Of
some we have part of what we need; for
example, lead and zinc. Of few do we have
all we need, but there are some, for example,
coal. Because of numerous factors concern-
ing relative grades of ore, relative labor costs,
and various types of control and assistance
by foreign governments, it has in the past
been considered necessary and desirable to
provide certain types of moderate import
controls to compensate the advantages that
thus accrue to foreign producers over U.S.
miners.
The State Department is in a position to
view the mineral needs of the United States
as part of a game on a great international
chessboard. They make it entirely clear that
they wish to have a pretty free hand to nego-
tiate, to trade, to concede, to give away, or
to do anything that seems to best fit for-
eign policy of the moment, and we have
had it made pretty clear to us on some occa-
sions that the interests of domestic mining
are wholly secondary.
Since the State Department is strongly
represented and highly influential on many
interagency committees that advise the
President, its philosophies carry through to
the fixing of Government policies or posi-
tions, and those philosophies do not gener-
ally favor measures that are advocated by
the industry or by the Congress as essential
to maintenance of healthy and stable condi-
tions in mining industries. The reason gen-
erally is that such measures would restrict
the ability of the State Department to bar-
gain in the international scene in any way
it sees fit, regardless of the effect on domes-
tic enterprises.
Next, we come to an appraisal of the atti-
tude and position of the Department of the
Interior with respect to the U.S. mining
industry.
It has always been my thought, and I be-
lieve it is shared by many others, that In-
terior is the department of government that
generally has stewardship of the Nation's
natural resources. By stewardship, I mean
an overall responsibility for cooperating with
private enterprise to the end that the Na-
tion's natural resources are wisely extracted
and used and that conditions are such that
our natural resources can be developed and
be abundantly available to the Nation's con-
suming industries in preference to depend-
ence upon supplies from foreign sources.
I believe at this point it must be apparent
to you that I am about to be critical of some
of the positions of the Department of the
Interior, and that is quite correct. Before
doing so, however, let me say that I do not
want there to be any misunderstanding about
my position with respect to the Bureau of
Mines, which is but a part of the Department
of the Interior, performing specific functions
and services?and in my judgment the Bu-
reau does a fine job in this regard. Fortu-
nately, it does not become involved to any
great extent in broad policy matters with
which the Department concerns itself. These
comments apply likewise to many other
branches of government departments having
to do with mining, whose primary functions
are in specific technical fields and do not
usually involve the broader economic and
political considerations.
With respect to Interior, it has always
seemed reasonable to assume that if the
mining industry were to have an advocate
to stand up for it in intergovernmental
circles, it naturally would be Interior. But
somehow it does not seem to work out that
way. Generally, it seems that those con-
cerned with the mining industries in the
United States find Interior disagreeing with
them far more than agreeing. They find
Interior in active opposition to proposals
made by the industry and by the Congress
for promoting conditions required for long-
range stability in mining and conditions that
will encourage further investment in devel-
opment of natural resources. The record is
full of such opposition.
Interior does carry weight in the intergov-
ernmental committees that have to do with
establishment of positions. It is perhaps
wholly unfair to imply that Interior never
stands up for long-range welfare of mining.
It undoubtedly does on occasion. It is appar-
ent, however, that Interior seems to succumb
rather easily to the more dominating posi-
tions taken by others in the executive circle,
such as the State Department, and even
though it is fully aware of the problems en-
countered by some segments of the mining
industry with respect to foreign competition,
as one example, Interior is inclined to prefer
the route of temporary palliatives rather
than promoting and supporting measures
that will get at the long-range needs of 'U.S.
mining industries.
Other Departments, such as, Treasury,
Commerce, and Labor, also participate in in-
tergovernmental policy groups concerned
with matters affecting domestic mining,
such as, import controls, but apparently not
with the same force and effect as State, nor
with the basic interest and responsibility
that should be carried by Interior. Even the
Department of Agriculture gets into the act
determining positions and policy, not so
much by design but by actions. This Depart-
ment has the power to barter agricultural
products for metals, and often we find our-
selves in the position of seeing the Depart-
ment adding to surplus supplies of metals
by putting into our stockpiles metals pro-
duced in foreign countries.
In these circumstances, it is not surprising
that no effective long-range minerals policy
has been forthcoming from the executive
branch of the Government, because our Chief
Executive must rely on these various Depart-
ments for advice, and It is apparent that none
of them, for various reasons have the will or
inclination to come forth with a construc-
tive policy.
Now to return to the Congress and its posi-
tion with respect to the need for strong and
healthy mining industries. Here the mining
industries have many friends, who have a
great appreciation of the necessity of con-
structive development and maintenance of
mining in the United States in order not
only to contribute importantly to the Na-
tion's economy but also to provide and main-
tain a mobilization base for emergency.
The interest of the Congress in establish-
ment of a long-range progressive U.S. min-
erals policy is not new. There are many in
both Houses of the Congress and in both
major parties who have been with the prob-
lem for years. But as I mentioned earlier,
they, too, have much difficulty in penetrating
bureaucracy.
As long ago as 1959 both Houses of the
86th Congress overwhelmingly adopted
House Concurrent Resolution 177 in which it
was declared that the sense of the Congress
was that "the maintenance and development
of a sound and stable minerals industry,
without critical dependence upon foreign
sources, is essential to the national security
and the welfare of the consuming public."
Among other things, the resolution also
states that the national interest requires
the discovery and development of additional
domestic mineral resources and also more
research to permit better utilization of them.
This resolution, in effect, called upon the
executive branch of the Government to es-
tablish and actively to effectuate a long-
range minerals policy that would meet the
sense of the Congress as expressed in the
resolution.
That was 5 long years ago; and what has
been the response?
Let me not be the one to give you the
answer, but permit me to turn to one most
highly competent to answer, the Honorable
WAYNE N. ASPINALL, chairman of the House
Committee on Interior and Insular Affairs.
The mining industry has no better friend.
Speaking to that question before the Colo-
rado plateau section of the AIME at Denver
last month, he said:
"We have enacted legislation to encourage
exploration for and discovery of new sources
of minerals, and a program under the di-
rection of the Secretary of the Interior has
been established. We have provided funds
for expanded research and we have created
a new Office of Coal Research. But, we have
not accomplished anything of a concrete na-
ture toward the maintenance and develop-
ment of a stronger domestic mining indus-
try generally. If anything, the climate has
tended to be one that would discourage such
action."
Despite that somewhat gloomy answer, I
can assure you that WAYNE ASPINALL is not
disheartened. He and his many colleagues
in the Congress will continue to press for a
policy and action on it.
I ask you, please, not to count me as an
alarmist because I am critical of the execu-
tive departments. And I do not mean to dis-
count the ability of any with whom we deal
in those departments; they are highly corn-
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