AL-QADHDHAFI CITED IN AL-SAFIR INTERVIEW

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP05-01559R000400430011-6
• Release Decision: RIFPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 4
• Document Creation Date: December 22, 2016
• Document Release Date: February 2, 2012
• Sequence Number: 11
• Publication Date: January 1, 1988
• Content Type: OPEN SOURCE

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12 January 1988 '
Al-Qadhdhafi Cited in AL-SAFIR'Interview
NC041050 Beirut AL-SAFIR in Arabic 1 Jan 88 pp 8, 9
[Interview with leader Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi by AL-
SAFIR Chief Editor Talal Salman and correspondent
Walid al-Husayni in Tripoli; date not given]
[Excerpts] [AL-SAFIR] We are about to begin a new year
and the world is moving toward a new phase in interna-
tional relations after the Washington summit. Some see
this as a great step toward peace, while others consider it
a triumph of Gorbachev's policy. A third group views it
as a Soviet retreat before the U.S. onslaught. What about
us, the Arabs? How do we view the summit, particularly
as our basic causes, the Palestinian issue and the Arab-
Israeli conflict, were not officially on the agenda?
[A]-Qadhdhafi] It is wrong to view the Gorbachev-
Reagan summit as a peace summit. It has nothing to do
with peace at all. It was merely a meeting to discuss the
removal of weapons that pose a threat to the United
States and the USSR, since the two superpowers are the
only parties capable of deploying them in Europe.
It is true that this step did ease European anxieties
regarding nuclear arms; but Europe still faces the danger
of conventional forces overrunning it in the event of a
Soviet-U.S. conflict. In such a case chemical as well as
other Soviet weapons would be used. This means that
Europe is still under threat. The two giants have elimi-
nated part of the danger. However, the purpose of the
summit was not to relieve European anxieties but to
remove a danger to the USSR and the United States.
They succeeded, but the issue was not connected with
world peace.
The Soviet Union enjoys superiority in conventioanl
weapons and is doing its utmost to halt the arms race at
this stage in order to maintain its superiority. Mean-
while, the United States clings to the Star Wars program.
Something in return for something else, exactly as it was
in the Kennedy-Khrushchev agreement at the time of the
Cuban crisis-a U.S. base in Cuba in exchange for
acceptance of the Communist regime there.
[AL-SAFIR] When there is a reduction of tension
between the superpowers, does this not have a positive
effect on the world?
[Al-Qadhdhafi] Absolutely not. A reduction of tension
between the two giants signifies the exportation of dis-
turbances to the. world. If we restrain the impulses of the
two superpowers they must have outlets elsewhere in the
world. This is actually happening now. Immediately
after the summit, Reagan announced the extension of the
siege on Libya which was due to end next month. He said
that Libya .poses a danger to the vital foreign national
interests.of the United States. This appeared in the text
of a message which he sent to Congress.
?
We have addressed ourselves to the UN Security Council
and General Assembly and have also asked that a meet-
ing of the EC be convened in order to discuss how Libya
poses a threat to U.S. vital interests, and in what sense
Libya has a terrorist policy when our people eat, breathe,
build, and live on their land? Does the conquest of the
desert, the construction of a great man-made river, and
the. building of factories pose a. danger to the United
States and its foreign interests? We want an answer to
this. We want to know if any secure people living on their
land can worry the United States and threaten its inter-
ests. If we or any other people like us cause so much
worry and such a threat to the United States, then that
means that it does not want anything else to live on the
planet.
Had world peace been the focus of the summit, Reagan
would not have dared to extend the siege on Libya.
Gorbachev would have told Reagan that when the two
superpowers were meeting at the highest level to prepare
to eliminate nuclear arms and take the world toward
peace, it was not fitting .for the United States to fight the
poor Libyan people and threaten such a small country.
Gorbachev said nothing of the sort. For this reason,
Reagan left the meeting to declare the extension of
sanctions against Libya and to carry out hostile military
activity against us in the Mediterranean by forming a
U.S.-Egyptian aerial umbrella. On our radar, we moni-
tored an Israeli sortie approaching Libya. This means
there was a training mission carried out by Egyptian and
U.S. planes to cover a possible Israeli operation that
might be carried out now, or in I or 2 years' time.
This is what the United States did after the summit with
the Soviets and this is what Egypt did after the Amman
summit; namely, these two countries gave further aid
and support to Israel. This is what Egypt offered to those
Arabs who restored relations with it. Relations were
restored and coordination was increased with the Zionist
enemy against an Arab country at the same time. Is this
not a sign of shame and obloquy?
[AL-SAFIR] This confirms your slogan "We do not seek
peace from them. We just want them to leave us in
peace."
[Al-Qadhdhafi] Exactly. Note the massacres to which the
Palestinian people were subjected after .the Gorbachev-
Reagan summit. They are a provocation to Arab dignity
and they expose the superpower summit. It is also
another big scandal for the Arab countries which
resumed relations with Egypt. Does the Gaza Strip not
belong to Egypt? Why, then, does Egypt remain silent
over the massacre of the Palestinians? Why does it
massacre the Nasirites in Egypt at the same time? Is it
not because it is a true ally of Israel?
Why does the Egyptian regime detain the Nasirites?
Because they fought the Israelis inside Egypt. Is that not
so? Why does the Egyptian regime remain silent over
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Israel's treatment of the Palestinian people? Because
they-the Palestinian people-are resisting the occupa-
tion. Isn't that so? Therefore, the Egyptian regime rejects
any action against the Zionist enemy. This gives us the
right to question the reasons which drove the Arabs to
return to Egypt.
This does not mean we have gone off the subject. The
massacres in occupied Palestine took place after the
superpower summit, exactly like the extension of the
sanctions against Libya. I expect further strikes against
the Lebanese people, and against Angola, Ethiopia,
Afghanistan, SWAPO, and Nicaragua. Why did Gorba-
chev declare an end to assistance to Nicaragua imedia-
tely after the summit? .
[AL-SAFIR] Perhaps in return for something in Afghan-
istan?
[Al-Qadhdhafi] This is possible. At any rate, they tried to
save themselves and sacrificed the peoples of the entire
world.
[AL-SAFIR] The Amman summit was the epitome of
Arab retreat and submission to American hegemony.
The summit's resolutions and its final statement in
particular were a literal implementation of the memo-
randum from the U.S. ambassador in Amman to the
Arab League secretary general. Where are the Arabs
heading after the Amman summit?
[Al-Qadhdhafi] I have made many attempts to repair
Arab divisions through the Arab union plan. I have made
many attempts to end the Gulf war and I have succeeded
in preventing it from spilling over into Saudi Arabia,
Kuwait, and other Gulf states. We have extended help to
Mauritania, Yemen, and other countries. Then, unfortu-
nately, the Amman summit came and restored Arab
relations with Egypt. The goals that we were pursuing
and which were almost achieved were lost. They went to
Egypt. Let them go and seek help from Egypt. They have
no right from now on to ask for my help, either econom-
ically or militarily. What we have repaired exploded at
the Amman summit. Hence I expect violence to erupt in
Arab capitals in the future: liquidations, revolutions,
demonstrations. I tell them all now that I have nothing to
do with this. But who can prevent the revolutionary
forces in the Arab homeland from getting underway? I
believe that many heads will roll in the coming years.
[AL-SAFIR] Do you believe that the Amman summit
marked the beginning of the transformation of the Iraqi-
Iran war into an Arab-Persian war?
[Al-Qadhdhafi] That was in fact the general atmosphere
in Amman. Libya alone stood against turning the war
into a Persian-Arab one. The stands of the conferees in
Amman were indeed against Iran and the revolution. But
this does not affect matters in any way. Iran was not
worried by the Amman meeting because it knew well
that it was a meeting of losers.
ARAB AFRICA
[AL-SAFIR] What is your assessment of the role of
influential Arab parties in the Amman summit? .
[Al-Qadhdhafi, interupting] The role was the U.S.
ambassador's.
[AL-SAFIR] Do you have a clear idea of; what is taking
place in Lebanon? What is your concept of what it could
be in the future?
[Al-Qadhdhafi] My concept is always one of. jamahiri-
yah. If we want to keep Lebanon united, then it must be
a jamahiriyah. There is no solution for the sectarian
Lebanese situation except a jamahiriyah system, where
the government is canceled and the power struggle ends
because there will be no ministers, deputies, or army.
The alternative to all this is direct democracy, the
establishment of popular conferences and popular com-
mittees and the arming of the people.
[AL-SAFIR] The jamahiriyah invests abroad. Why don't
you take the initiative by investing in Lebanon, for
example, in Tripoli, Al-Biqa', Sidon, West Beirut, and
south Lebanon, and help the Lebanese people overcome
their economic catastrophe, particularly as there are a
number of projects which could be economically useful?
[Al-Qadhdhafi] This must in fact be done and it should
also include projects in East Beirut and all parts of
Lebanon, without discrimination. I will look very closely
into this matter.
[AL-SAFIR] Following the conference of Arab opposi-
tion parties and after the convening of the conference of
the ruling parties, will there be any attempt to benefit
from the atmosphere and trends of the two conferences
by calling for a united Arab movement? , .
[Al-Qadhdhafi] A united Arab movement will naturally
emerge if we continue along this line, and the Arab
parties will be unified. There is the Arab people's con-
gress and there is the pan-Arab'command'of the Arab
revolution forces; that is, there is a fighting force and
political leadership. A united Arab movement will
emerge automatically when further meetings have been
held.
[AL-SAFIR] The Palestinian issue must be dealt with.
You have a basic role in this. After all that has taken
place, and particularly after the Amman summit, what
program can be worked out to deal with this subject?
[Al-Qadhdhafi] We consider the unity of the Palestinian
resistance, under the PLO, to be a pan-Arab demand, but
the PLO now means Yasir `Arafat, and whoever opposes
Yasir `Arafat appears to be against the PLO. This situa-
tion is not right and a line should be drawn between the
two. I insist on the unification of the Palestinians within
the PLO; otherwise, we will not be able to find a solution
to the Palestinian problem.
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[AL-SAFIR] You support the existence of a strong liber-
ation organization, then. But what will the situation be if
the organization is strong and leads the Palestinians to
direct negotiations? Or, as is now hapening, it leads to
direct meetings with the Zionist enemy?
[Al-Qadhdhafi] The liberation organization cannot lead
.the Palestinians to treason. One person is betraying and
leading the organization in this direction. Therefore, the
organization must overthrow him; he must not over-
throw the organization.
[AL-SAFIR] You have met with PLO leaders several
times. Did you sense any hope that the PLO will revert to
the bases of the Arab-Zionist conflict?
[Al-Qadhdhafi] Whoever comes to us shows readiness to
fight and to engage in armed struggle. One-upmanship is
intense. However, we can talk about this only after the
unification of the Palestinians. That is when we will be
able to introduce these tendencies to the program of a
unified PLO. As I have mentioned, the shortcomings are
not in the PLO because its program provides for the
elimination of the Zionist entity and for the complete
liberation of Palestine; the defect is in the persons who
lead the PLO.
[AL-SAFIR] For 2 or 3 years, you have made intensive
attempts to reunify the PLO. However, there were more
than two political concepts. The dispute was not person-
al. Political disagreement put some of the Palestinian
factions' outside the framework of the PLO Executive
Committee, but not outside the PLO itself. For this
reason these factions did not participate in the PNC
meeting in Algeria, and consequently did not participate
in the Executive Committee. Do you believe that the
PLO can be unified without resolving the political con-
flict among the various tendencies?
[Al-Qadhdhafi] According to my experience of this prob-
lem, `Arafat is the PLO and the PLO is `Arafat. We
cannot conceal this fact in any way. Therefore, the
factions that are outside the PLO left because they are
against Abu `Ammar [Yasir `Arafat]. This made them
appear as if they were against the PLO, while in fact they
are not. Abu `Ammar inherited the PLO and became its
owner; it is now his voice alone.
[AL-SAFIR] Therefore, inter-Palestinian reconciliation
is impossible?
[Al-Qadhdhafi] Certainly, there can be no reconciliation
as long as `Arafat dominates the PLO. From this state-
ment I do not want it to be understood that I am talking
about misgivings about `Arafat; I am talking about the
Palestinian state of affairs. This problem will continue
until the PLO becomes one thing and Abu `Ammar
another.
[AL-SAFIR] Can this be achieved? In a sense, will Abu
`Ammar become a person and not an organization? Will
the PLO come to mean Palestine and not individuals?
[Al-Qadhdhafi] The solution lies with the Palestinian
people.
[AL-SAFIR] Where does your view and that of the
Syrians coincide on this subject? Where do you agree and
where do you differ?
[Al-Qadhdhafi] The Syrians have the same analysis.
[AL-SAFIR] Therefore, reconciliation between Yasir
`Arafat and the Syrians is also impossible as long as this
confusion between the person of Abu `Ammar and the
PLO exists. Syria's objections, like yours, are political
and not personal. Is there no possibility of reducing these
disputes?
[Al-Qadhdhafi] The only possibility is to make conces-
sions. When we accept and shake hands with King
Husayn, we might accept and shake hands with Yasir
`Arafat. Syria is aware that King Husayn is a traitor and
has been secretly negotiating with the Israelis since the
days of Golda Me'ir and Moshe Dayan. But Syria
established a relationship with him so that he will not go
to the enemy and enter into direct negotiations that will
result in another Camp David accord. It is acting under
duress and not out of conviction. It might also be
compelled to shake hands with Abu `Ammar. That this
could happen politically is unlikely but it is not impos-
sible. [passage omitted]
[AL-SAFIR] Libya's enemies are the enemies of the
Arabs, and from this point of view we could understand
the arrival of Lebanese and Palestinian troops to fight
alongside the Libyans. However, some parties are trying
to depict the struggle as an Arab-African one, and this
issue has surfaced in many African countries that have
Lebanese communities. The campaign in such countries
is based on the allegation that the Lebanese came to
Libya to fight the Africans, and, therefore, they must be
deported from these African countries. How should this
campaign against the Lebanese be dealt with?
[Al-Qadhdhafi] The Lebanese leaders have explained
this issue before. However, Libya is the headquarters of
the national command for the Arab revolutionary forces,
the charter of which stipulates the defense of any part of
the Arab homeland that comes under threat, particularly
the revolutionary areas. Libya is now under threat, not
from Chad at all, but from France and America. An
alliance has been formed against Libya that comprises,
in addition to America and France, Egypt, Israel, Zaire,
and the Ivory Coast. Chad is merely the land used by
these hostile forces. The French brought a black military
division into Chad, and so did the Americans. The arms
come from Egypt and Israel and the training officers
come from Egypt, Israel, America, and France. Fighters
and arms come from Zaire and other places. We are
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actually confronting armies and Habre is only a mask.
For this reason, the Arab revolutionary forces rushed to
defend their headquarters, Libya. They did not come to
fight Chad. Some of the commanders of these fighters
told Habre that the Labenese and Palestinian fighters did
not come to fight against Chad, because there is no
problem between Libya and Chad, but only to fight
against imperialism. These commanders even advised
Habre to get rid of imperialism, as this would resolve the
Chadian problem. However, the decision is not up to
Habre; it is up to the United States, which asked Habre
to fight against Libya in return, for financial, food,
military, and training assistance.
France itself is worried about the U.S. role and has told
us of its concern. It is the United States that is leading
this war against Libya from Chad. The United States
wanted to settle accounts with Libya and found in
Hissein Habre a pliable tool. As for France, it has no
interest in the outbreak of war between Libya and Chad,
because it has made a commitment to the Africans to
defend Chad at the 16th parallel. As for the Americans,
there is no commitment that can restrict their adventure.
If the forces of the anti-Libyan alliance succeeded in
fomenting war against us, and consequently, exhausting
us militarily, the United States would thus have fulfilled
its sabotage role. On the other hand, if Libya managed to
take Chad, the United States could retreat and pull itself
out on the pretext that it has no troops in Chad and is not
committed to defend it. It is an embarrassment for the
French and an adventure that may succeed or fail.
As for the Lebanese working in the African countries, we
believe that any harassment of them is a dirty racist
action. Libya is an African country that is fighting with
the South African revolutionaries against the racist
regime. Libya is the chief source of finance for SWAPO.
Therefore, no one can accuse us of an ethnic war, while
those who level such an accusations are being used as
fuel for this war, which is created by the United States.
Jabir Meets USSR's Kondakov, Sudanese Minister
LD111825 Tripoli JANA in Arabic 1745 GMT
11 Jan 88
[Text] Tripoli, 11 Jan (JANA)-Abu Bakr Yunis Jabir,
commander in chief of the Libyan Arab Armed Forces,
today received Lieutenant General Kondakov, chief of
the 10th Directorate of the General Staff of the Soviet
Armed Forces, and the delegation accompanying him.
Colonel Abu Bakr Yunis Jabir also received Nur al-
Da'im, the minister of agriculture of fraternal Sudan.
Jallud Hails Current Palestinian `Uprising'
LD081003 Tripoli JANA in Arabic 0800 GMT
8 Jan 88
[Text] Tripoli, 8 Jan (JANA)-Staff Major `Abd al-
Salam Ahmad Jallud has hailed the youth, the women,
the girls, and the children of occupied Palestine who are
confronting with sticks and stones the Zionist enemy's
machinery, which is supported by the United States with
the most sophisticated means of destruction.
In an address'at a solidarity meeting last night, he said
that this uprising has been a honor to our nation and an
honor to our great people in occupied Palestine. The
Palestinian people have proved that their resistance is
increasing and that they are qualified to shoulder respon-
sibility. He pointed out that the Arab masses in occupied
Palestine have been waiting for liberation. However,
they have now shouldered their responsibility and taken
the initiative; this uprising is basically a reply to the
Amman summit conference.
Staff Maj `Abd al-Salam Ahmad Jallud warned Arab
reactionary regimes not to plot against this uprising or to
look for capitulationist solutions in order to liquidate the
pan-Arab struggle of our Arab nation which is, as a
whole, being targeted by imperialism and Zionism. He
also saluted the Arab people in Lebanon for their coura-
geous confrontation and heroic fight against the Zionist
enemy. He added that the the Arab people in Lebanon
have accepted the destruction of every Lebanese house,
street, and village for the sake of the Palestinian cause,
the pan-Arab cause of the Arab nation.
Staff Maj `Abd al-Salam Ahmad Jallud pointed out that
the uprising of the Arab people in occupied Palestine and
the confrontation of the Arab people in Lebanon is an
escalation of the armed struggle and an affirmation of
the dictum that peoples cannot be defeated, because the
Palestinian Arab people have triumphed, thanks to their
faith and resoluteness, over the most sophisticated Zion-
ist-NATO weaponry.
Staff Maj `Abd Al-Salam Ahmad Jallud also hailed the
Arab people in Egypt who demonstrated in solidarity
and support for the uprising of the Arab people in
occupied Palestine.
Staff Maj `Abd al-Salam Ahmad Jallud affirmed'that the
uprising in occupied Palestine played an effective role in
activating and inciting Arab reality in a number of Arab
countries. He called on the Arab masses to unite with the
Arab people in occupied Palestine and to carry out a
popular action for collecting donations and money. He
also pointed out that the duty of progressive working
forces and democratic and peace forces in the world is
not just to be in solidarity with the Palestinian people,
but also to set up an international campaign to support
the Palestinian Arab people and to stand by them as they
did with the Arab revolution in Algeria, and with the
Vietnamese people in their struggle against colonialism.
He also said that our people in the occupied territories
do not expect words and praise from us, but they do
require us to be with them in the battle and to be a
natural extension of their struggle. They are fighting in
our defense in the forward trenches and are fighting for
our existence and our pan-Arab identity.
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