'TEXT' OF 24-25 SEP AL-QADHDHAFI INTERVIEW

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP05-01559R000400420023-4
• Release Decision: RIFPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 5
• Document Creation Date: December 22, 2016
• Document Release Date: March 12, 2012
• Sequence Number: 23
• Publication Date: September 28, 1987
• Content Type: OPEN SOURCE

/~~~ Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/03/12 :CIA-RDP05-015598000400420023-4 ~ ~i
FBIS-NES-87-189
30 September 1987
Archbishop of Canterbury Arrives in Cairo
NC282254 Cairo MENA in Arabic 2130.GM7`
28 Sep 87
[Text] Cairo, 28 Sep (MENA~Dr Robert Runcie, the
archbishop of Canterbury and primate of all England,
arrived in Cairo this evening fora 1-week visit to Egypt
at the invitation of the Anglican Church in Egypt. Dr
Runcie is expected to hold talks with ranking Egyptian
officials, including Pope Shanudah, head of the Coptic
Orthodox Church; Yusuf Sabri Abu Talib, the Cairo
governor; His Eminence Shaykh Jad al-Haq `Ali Jad
al-Haq, the grand shaykh of Al-Azhar; and Dr `Abd
al-Fattah Husayn al-Shaykh, president of Al-Azhar Uni-
versity.
The talks will deal with Egyptian-British relations
regarding matter's of religion. Dr Runcie was received at
the airport by the British ambassador in Cairo and
Ambassador Ismail Mubarak, head of _the Protocol
Department of the Foreign Ministry;`" ~ '
Libya
JANA Scores Weinberger Cairo Statement
LD291623 Tripoli JANA in Arabic 1445 GMT
29 Sep 87
[Text] Tripoli, 29 Sep (JANA~Caspar Weinberger, the
U.S. secretary of war, met with the president of the
Egyptian regime yesterday at the conclusion of a suspi-
cious visit that included a number of states in the
Arabian Gulf.
News agencies have quoted Weinberger, in a statement
he made in the Egyptian capital, that the rulers of the
countries included in his visit appreciated the U.S.
military role in the Arabian Gulf. He then added: "They
expressed the desire to guarantee the U.S. Navy's mili-
tary force in the Gulf."
He noted that his meeting with the head of the Egyptian
regime was fruitful as usual.
JANA's editor of Arab affairs had the following com-
ment on this: "It has become obvious that the U.S.
secretary of war has completed an inspection tour of the
U.S. colonies in the region and that those who are
haughty in front of others, as if they are great leaders and
sultans, soon become like dwarfs bowing before their
master.
"Weinberger, who is flexing his muscles at this show to
demonstrate the. U.S. might in the Gulf and to threaten
Iran, is not capable of doing anything; Roosevelt's stick,
which he is waving anew, has become fragile, eaten away
by termites, and breaks in the face of its users before it
reaches its target."
The editor adds: "America is the archenemy of the Arab
nation, the Muslim peoples, and the peoples of the world
who are aspiring for freedom. Its secretary of war, who is
now desecrating Arab territories, is a war criminal and a
well-known terrorist whose hands are stained with the
blood of Arabs from Palestine, Lebanon, the Jamahiri-
yah, and many other places in the world.
"By receiving the U.S. secretary of war on a day that
coincided with.the anniversary of Jamal `Abd al-Naser's
death, the Egyptian regime has insulted the soul of this
nationalist hero and insulted the land ;of Egypt which
was, in his era, forbidden to the United States. Now it
has become as submissive a colony as Berlin was after
World War II when domination, protectorates, and
dependency were imposed upon it."
`Text' of 24-25 Sep Al-Qadhdhafi Interview
JN291728 Al-Sharigah AL-KHALIJ in Arabic
28 Sep 87 pp 1, I5, 17
["Text" of interview with leader Colonel Mu`ammar
al-Qadhdhafi by Hind `Amr, the Al-Khalij Tripoli corre-
spondent, on 24 and 25 September in Tripoli]
[Text] Al-Khalij: The world is preoccupied by Security
Council Resolution No 598 on the Iraq-Iran war. Now,
the foreign ministers of the permanent Security Council
members are meeting to discuss the implementation of
this resolution. What is Libya's stand on the resolution?
Col al-Qadhdhafi: When I was acquainted with the
resolution, I did not care much about its formulation. I
concentrated on the essence of the issue. My stand on the
war is clear: It must end.. Since the beginning, my stand
has not changed. I visited Iraq after the Iranian revolu-
tion. The Iranians contacted me and informed me that
Iraq had carried out air raids on the border. During my
visit to Iraq, I met with President Ahmad Hasan al-Bakr
and Vice President Saddam Husayn. I informed them of
Iran's protest and inconvenience. Al-Bakr explained to
me that what had occurred was a pursuit of Kurds. He
added that they had informed the Iranians that Iraq was
embarking on defensive aerial operations in that area
and that these operations were not aimed against Iran.
This is how the conflict began between the two countries.
From the start, we have been working to keep the
regional situation from deteriorating. The fact is that I
had opposed backing the Arabs who are against the
Iranian revolution. On the other hand, I supported the
Arabs in combating the shah when his bad and expan-
sionist intentions in the Gulf became clear and because
he was a basic regional ally of Israel, as well as an
American agent. We were the only Arab country that the
shah could not bribe.
How can we fight a revolution which is directed against
the United States and which is an ally of the Arabs,
placing all its impact in support of the Palestinian issue?
I instigated the revolution against the shah. The leaders
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30 September 1987
of the Iranian revolution listened to my speeches while
they were in prison. They told me this. Many of them
said: We did not listen to Khomeyni; while we were in
prison we listened to you address the Iranian people and
urge them to revolt.
At the same time, Iraq is a sisterly Arab country, and we
cannot possibly fight an Arab state. A country like Iraq is
counted among the revolutionary, unionist, and progres-
sive states. It cannot be classified as reactionary. We
therefore cannot fight against Iraq. Our position on the
war has been controversial and subject to many interpre-
tations. Our position is, however, unchanged. Indeed, we
think that the Iranian revolution's efforts should be
added to Arab revolutionary efforts to liberate Palestine
and to regain Arab rights. I believe, however, that there
is a conspiracy against such an approach. The conspiracy
is directed primarily against Iraq and the Islamic revo-
lution. Imperialism lies behind this destructive scheme.
Iraq and Iran are suffering losses equally, and the only
beneficiary of all this is the enemy.
Al-Khalij: Do you believe that the two parties are inex-
tricably involved in this war?
Col al-Qadhdhafi: Yes, yes, yes.
Al-Khalij: The issue of who started the war constitutes a
large part of the efforts to end the war. How do you view
this issue?
Col al-Qadhdhafi: Both Iraq and Iran have recorded the
beginning of the war. Their dates for this are different.
The Iraqis -have presented a report which states that
several explosions directed against Iraqi civilian and
military targets took place. They have also claimed that
Iran stood behind these explosions, including the car
bomb operation near the president's motorcade. Iraq
says that it carried out its first military operation in
retaliation for these bombings, while Iran denies any
responsibility for these explosions. The Iranians say that
Iraq's military operations against the Kurds were the
beginning of the war.
Al-Khalij: How does Libya view Iran's suggestion to the
UN secretary general that an undeclared cease-fire take
place and that a committee be established to investigate
the question of who started the war, especially since you
announced in your recent speech that Libya is the only
country that can halt the war?
Col al-Qadhdhafi: Yes, I have sent a memorandum to
the Iranian leaders, specifically to Montazeri, and his
reply was positive. He said that Iran is ready to end the
war but that the party responsible for starting it must be
identified and that Iran must be compensated for its
losses. I believe that both Iraq and Iran should be
compensated. Any effort to halt the war will be seen as
positive.
AI-Khalij: Who will pay the compensation?
Col al-Qadhdhafi: All the Arab countries. I believe that
there will be no decisive conclusion or victory in this
war. We do not have any evidence concerning who
started the war. We have to condemn the aggressor and
compensate the two sides regardless of the reasons that
led to this conflict. This war should end and should not
be repeated. We all know that no side can occupy the
other side's territory. The problem should not become a
second Palestinian question. We have to take action.
Al-Khalij: How can we take action in the absence of a
unified Arab position?. Does the problem not require a
unified Arab postion?
Col al-Qadhdhafi: We have to understand that all Arabs
are in danger. We face Western imperialist pressure. We
face. Zionist expansion from Europe. We face a black
African onslaught against the Arab countries in Africa;
namely, Sudan, Algeria, Libya, and Mauritania. We are
being exposed to a racist onslaught at the encouragement
of the United States and Europe. There is a plan to turn
the Arabs into Kurds and Red Indians so that the United
States can control strategic centers such as the Strait of
Hormuz and the Suez Canal. They want us to be a
market for their products. They want to exploit Arab
revenues. They do not want us to achieve independent
development. The Arabs are in danger. Regrettably, the
Arab Gulf,war is being exploited by forces hostile to the
Arabs.
The Iranian revolution has been made a link in the
conspiratorial chain against the wishes of this revolu-
tion's well-meaning brothers. It was used as a link in the
chain of marching on the Arab homeland. This is part of
a predetermined plan. Undoubtedly, every revolution
has a counterrevolution. Certain Iranian forces maintain
Zionist and imperialist contacts. The war advances these
forces' interests, to destroy both the Arabs and the
Iranian revolution, especially militarily. However, the
truly revolutionary Iranian forces, led by Montazeri and
Khomeyni, are opposed to the war. They want it termi-
nated, provided that the aggressor is punished.
Al-Khalil: Do you mean Irangate when you refer to the
counterrevolution?
Col al-Qadhdhafi: I have stated that there are Iranian
forces inside the revolution working against it. They
were behind the suspect Irangate deal and are addition-
ally fanning the flames of this war. I just hope the truly
revolutionary forces in Iran will come out on top and end
the war.
Al-Khalij: There has been talk and speculation about a
union between Libya and Iraq. What do you have to say
to this?
Col al-Qadhdhafi: This. is not so much aLibyan-Iraqi
unionist project as it is part of our Arab contacts with a
view to establishing apan-Arab union stretching from
the [Atlantic] Ocean to the Gulf. The plan envisions the
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30 September 1987
Arab heads of state alternating the governance of the
Arab homeland, with the presidency rotating every 6
months within the framework of a presidential council
comprised of all the member countries' heads of state.
The council would unify Arab efforts in the areas of
education, industry, foreign affairs, and defense policies,
etc. We have made it clear that the plan rules out
interference in member states' domestic affairs. Some
people have interpreted our moves as being a projected
union with Iraq, given that this was the first time Iraq
and Libya have been in contact since they severed ties.
We asked Iraq to state its opinion on the matter. It is still
a mere proposal. Incidentally, Iraq was the last Arab
country to be approached on the matter.
Al-Khalij: Have you heard from other Arab countries on
the proposal?
Col al-Qadhdhafi: We have officially heard from some of
them. In principle there is no one who opposes unifying
the Arabs. They may rest assured that they would remain
in office. Indeed, each one would gain in stature since he
would preside over the entire Arab homeland instead of
just one state.
Al-Khalij: Can we return to Libyan-Iraqi ties, against the
background of [Secretary of Foreign Liaison] AI-Talhi's
recent visit to Baghdad?
Col al-Qadhdhafi: To begin with, Al-Talhi communi-
cated Iraq's thinking with regard to the war. He then
brought up the subject of reinstating relations, since Iraq
had taken a hostile stand against us and severed ties. Iraq
has reconsidered its position and relations are now back
to normal, I believe.
Al-Khalij: Do you believe that Libya's role in ending the
war will be enhanced after you receive Iraq's reply
concerning the pan-Arab union project? Is there some
kind of link between the two issues?
Col al-Qadhdhafi: I believe that the pan-Arab union
project is a necessity on the basis of my definition of the
dangers that engulf the Arabs. This is so, regardless of
whether our efforts to end the war succeed or not.
Al-Khalij: Is it true that a ranking Iraqi delegation will
soon visit the Jamahiriyah?
Col al-Qadhdhafi: Nothing prevents this from taking
place since relations have been resumed.
Al-Khalij: Can you give us some details concerning
Libya's peace plan to end the Iraq-Iran war?
Col al-Qadhdhafi: I have stated that I could end the war.
The war must end regardless of the causes that led to its
eruption. I insist that compensation must be paid to the
two sides since they have suffered such losses. After this,
one can identify which party started the war. Although I
have kept abreast of the war from its very start, the
ARAB AFRICA
information I possess does not allow me to state which
party is responsible. It is very difficult indeed to specify
which party is responsible for starting the war.
Al-Khalij: Are there any other Arab countries that have
joined Libya's efforts to end the Iraq-Iran war?
Col al-Qadhdhafi: There is a general consensus to end
the war. However, some parties, including Arab parties,
do not want this war to end since eliminating both Iraq
as a military and party force and the Iranian revolu-
tion-which we view as a ray of light on the international
level-serves their interests. Syria, for example, agrees
with what we say and have suggested. But as I have
already mentioned, there are parties that benefit from
fanning the fire of this war. They do what they can to
prolong it.
I believe that the two parties, Iraq and Iran, have become
inextricably involved in the war. There,is no reason why
the war should continue. I wonder what objective there is
in prolonging the conflict.
Al-Khalij: Have you exerted efforts to improve relations
between Syria and Iraq?
Col al-Qadhdhafi: We are not only seeking to improve
relations between Iraq and Syria but also to declare unity
between the two countries. However, their viewpoints
differ substantially, and both are displaying stubborn-
ness. They do not trust each other. However, the threats
we are facing dictate greater cooperation.
Al-Khalij: Is there much talk about the issue of mediation
between Libya and Egypt?
Col al-Qadhdhafi: No, no, no. The dispute originally was
not aLibyan-Egyptian dispute but an Arab-Egyptian
dispute. Frankly, this dispute will continue so long as
Egypt does not retract its recognition of the Zionist
enemy. We are not against the Egyptian people but
against the Egyptian regime. As long as this problem is
not settled, there will be no mediations or dialogue. I
would like to reaffirm this point. We are not in a dispute
with Egypt. There may be a dispute with Iraq or Tunisia,
for example, but not with Egypt.
Al-Khalij: But some sources claim that YAR President
`Ali `Abdallah Salih is mediating to solve the issue of the
defecting Libyan pilots, extradite them, and release
Egyptian detainees in Libya.
Col al-Qadhdhafi: Yes, this is reasonable. There are
Libyan aircraft that were hijacked to Egypt and a num-
ber of pilots who found themselves in Egypt. They
requested repatriation to their country and families.
However, Egypt is holding them and wants to make them
equivalent to the spies it sent to carry out the ugliest
crimes against the Libyan people. These spies guided the
U.S. aircraft to the positions they bombed during their
savage raids on Tripoli and Banghazi. We found them
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30 September 1987
with equipment that had guided the raiding aircraft to us
and we apprehended them. They will face the death
penalty for treason. By the way, this is an opportunity to
make everyone understand that these spies carried out a
hideous crime through their participation in the raid.
Al-Khalij: But, on the other hand, do you insist on the
pilots' return from Egypt? ,
Col al-Qadhdhafi: Keeping them in Egypt is the taking of
hostages and piracy.
Al-Khalij: How far have relations between Libya and
Algeria grown? And what about the unity project?
Col al-Qadhdhafi: What is between us and Algeria differs
from the Arab unionist project. What is between us is a
constitution that will bind us together next November.
We will establish a federal state, to be declared in
November, God willing. Talks are continuing with Alge-
ria. '
Al-Khalij: What about your efforts to reunify the Pales-
tinian resistance factions?
Col al-Qadhdhafi: We were and still are for the unity of
the Palestinian resistance. However, some revolutionary
factions regrettably do not agree with the policy of Abu
`Ammar [Yasir `Arafat]. They rightfully believe that
Palestinian decisionmaking must be collective and not
individual. They object to having the Palestinian efforts
led in this manner. We support the unity of the resis-
tance. I am doing my best to reunify all the factions on
the basis of armed struggle. We agree that `Arafat's
unilateral adoption of decisions has led to all that
happened. We believe that a change on the level of the
Palestinian leadership will return the Palestinian effort's
prestige.
Al-Khalij: I have a question in mind, although its subject
has become worn. However, some still discuss it from
time to time. The question concerns the front of stead-
fastness and confrontation. Is there a possibility of
reviving it?
Col al-Qadhdhafi: By God, we have gone beyond the
front by raising the project of unity with Algeria one
time, and also with Syria and Yemen. We have actually
gone beyond this. However, if there is need for it, we will
confront; we will confront. (The colonel laughs for a long
time) It is no longer with us. The front of steadfastness
and confrontation was established to heal the rift in the
greater Arab homeland in the past and to prevent the
remainder of the Arabs from entering the Zionist cage.
As for now,' there is no need for the front.
Al-Khalij: What is your opinion of the proposed tempo-
rary solutions and settlements? Are they a sign of hope-
lessness concerning the return of .the Arab right to
Palestine?
ARAB AFRICA
Col al-Qadhdhafi: I do not think that the Zionist pres-
ence is too strong to be removed. This is because all the
existing factors oppose its continuation. It is only the
element of fear. This is a psychological factor governing
the Arab homeland. I think and believe that removing
this entity is not impossible. We can achieve this through
guerrilla and popular wars, and even through a war of
armies.
Al-Khalij: Jordan has decided to resume its relations with
Libya, but did you not have any reaction to this?
Col al-Qadhdhafi: It is Jordan that severed these rela-
tions in the past,' and it is Jordan that has resumed them.
The Libyan people had staged a demonstration in Tri-
poli to protest the meeting involving King Husayn,
President Husni Mubarak, and Reagan. As a result,
Jordan severed relations, which have now been resumed.
We welcome this.
Al-Khalij: Will you attend the emergency Arab summit in
Amman?
Col al-Qadhdhafi: I do not know the justification for
such a summit, and why should it be called an emergency
summit?
We call for the convening of an Arab summit every year,
but nothing of the sort takes place. They call for such an
emergency summit every time. I wonder why an emer-
gency summit was not held following the European-U.S.
aggression against Libya. We were exposed to a fierce
onslaught in which the Arabs' enemies participated. We
still experience a dangerous situation in the south.
Despite this, none of them took pains to protest or even
to show interest in the problem. Why then should I,
Mu`ammar al-Qadhdhafi, attend such a meeting as long
as it is a meeting of heads of state? In the first place, I am
not a head of state. The decision first and foremost now
belongs to the Libyan masses. We may attend another
summit to discuss revolutionary matters, a summit of
revolutionaries. Generally speaking, had the agenda of
such a summit been an ordinary one, attending would
have been possible.
Al-Khalij: Does this mean that you agree with Syria on
this issue?
Col al-Qadhdhafi: Yes. I agree with Syria that there is no
use in attending this summit to discuss only the Gulf
war. This is unreasonable. The war is not an emergency.
Therefore, there is no need for an emergency summit.
The war began 7 years ago. Despite the importance of
this issue, I would like to see a summit that will discuss
all Arab issues.
Al-Khalij: What is the secret of Libya's acceptance of
Lebanese and Palestinian volunteers?
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30 September 1987
Col al-Qadhdhafi: Well, I will take this opportunity to
explain this issue since we have heard many interpreta-
tions. Libya is the headquarters of the national com-
mand of the revolutionary Arab factions. Similarly, all
the revolutionary factions in the world maintain offices
and representatives in Libya. In accordance with their
general charter, all of these factions are obliged to
support one another against any aggression.
The Lebanese, Palestinian, and other fighters joined us
on this basis. This is the most sound course for confront-
ing world imperialism and its designs. We established
the presence of Israeli soldiers among those who fought
against us in Aozou and Tibesti. Chad repatriated the
bodies of Israeli soldiers who were killed in the battles.
Zairian forces also fought against us, and the com-
mander ofthese forces was killed in battle. We addition-
ally captured Egyptian military hardware from the Cha-
dians. When we announced this, Egypt officially replied
by explaining that it had sold quantities of military
hardware and ammunition to Saudi Arabia, but it
ignores how these weapons reached the hands of the
Chadian enemy forces. These weapons were marked
with the inscription of Shubra al-Khaymah industries.
We later learned that Saudi Arabia had purchased them
and had given them to [former Sudanese President]
Numayri.
We want everyone to understand that what is currently
occurring on the Libyan-Chadian border is not a war
between Chad and Libya but a confrontation between
Libya and the revolutionary forces on the one hand and
the world imperialist forces in this region on the other.
Al-Khalij How do you envisage an end to the Chadian
war?
Col al-Qadhdhafi: The Libyan and Chadian peoples
have never been two different peoples. The majority of
the Chadian people, who belong to the A-Mahamid tribe,
are Arabs like we are. Our relations with the Chadians
require only understanding among the various Chadian
factions. The groups of Goukouni, Shaykh Omar, Habre,
and others must reach an understanding on a single
basis. Aozou is no longer the problem. The problem now
is that imperialism and reactionaries are using Chad to
fight Libya. All the Chadian groups I mentioned must
save Chad by reaching an understanding among them-
selves and emerging from the era of tribalism to that of
the state.
Al-Khalij: How do you assess the experience of the
peoples committees after 10 years?
Col al-Qadhdhafi: This is still a new experience and we
cannot yet assess it. This experience will not be restricted
only to the Libyan Arab Jamahiriyah, for the entire
world will become a Jamahiriyah. We are the corner-
stone of the era of the masses. We are now paying the
price for proceeding on this course. The peoples com-
mittees will not become a party because they are the
antithesis to parties.
Al-Qadhdhafi Receives Saudi Charge, Note
LD291210 Tripoli JANA in Arabic 1200 GMT
29 Sep 87
[Text) Tripoli, 29 Sep, (JANA~The brother leader of
the revolution today received the Saudi charge d'affaires
to the Great Jamahiriyah, who delivered a written mes-
sage to him from King Fahd.
Economic Cooperation Talks With Libyans Continue
LD291512 Tripoli JANA in Arabic 1417 GMT
29 Sep 87
[Text] Khartoum, 29 Sep (JANA~Libyan Arab-Suda-
nese talks continued in Khartoum yesterday between the
secretary of the People's Committee for Communica-
tions and Maritime Transport in the Great Jamahiriyah
and the acting Sudanese minister of trade and finance.
Several subcommittees specializing in commercial
exchanges, oil, communications, banking, and joint
holding companies have been established.
In a statement to the press, the secretary for communi-
cations and maritime transport stressed the importance
of rapprochement and economic cooperation in order to
fulfill the aspirations and goals pursued by the Arab
people in the Great Jamahiriyah and Sudan to achieve
Arab unity. He said: "We do not see economic cooper-
ation as the ultimate goal, but a step on the long road to
comprehensive Arab unity."
The Sudanese acting minister of trade and finance
praised these talks and said: "All aspects of the progress
of commercial exchange have been reviewed and the
establishment of a joint holding company and three joint
technical committees in the fields of economy, trade,
and transportation and communications has been dis-
cussed."
Libyan Armed Forces Chief Visits Hero's Tomb
LD291530 Tripoli DANA in English 1447 GMT
29 Sep 87
[Text] Khartoum, Al-Fatih [September] 29, Jamahiriyah
News Agency-Colonel Abu Bakr Yunis Jabir, com-
mander-in-chief of the Libyan Arab Armed Forces, has
lauded the role of the Sudanese. struggler Sharif Husayn
Hindi.
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