AL-QADHDHAFI CHAIRS MEETING ON DOMESTIC ISSUES

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP05-01559R000400420017-1
• Release Decision: RIFPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 10
• Document Creation Date: December 22, 2016
• Document Release Date: March 12, 2012
• Sequence Number: 17
• Publication Date: May 23, 1987
• Content Type: OPEN SOURCE

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AI-Qadhdhafi Chairs Meeting on Domestic Issues
LD241654 Tripoli Television Service in Arabic
2125 GMT 23 May 87
[Meeting with members of the General. People's Committee,
secretaries of the People's Committee on unicipalities, and the
Secretariat of the General People's Congress chaired by Mu'am-
mar al-Qadhdhafi; date, place not given - recorded]
[Text] [Al-Qadhdhafi] I have some remarks I want to address, to
you [words indistinct] the General People's Congress Secretariat.
Perhaps this calls for discussion by the people's congresses at a
convenient time; if these remarks deserve to be endorsed, they
will be endorsed by the people's congresses. Some of them are
new and others old. (?Why have the old ones not been imple-
mented?) What happened to our comments on freedom of edu-
cation? [Words indistinct] General People's, Committee and the
General People's Congress. What have you done? [passage indis-
tinct]
[Al-Muntasir, secretary of the General People's Committee]
What have you done?
[Unidentified speaker] [Passage indistinct]
[Al-Qadhdhafi] [Passage indistinct] What happened to what we
said on 7 April [passage indistinct].
[Unidentified speaker] In fact these were not practical measures,
but were meant to formulate practical ideas that go beyond the
issue of education to the issue of the structure of the society in
general. It is a question of [word indistinct] of all sectors in
general. If we say that the Jamahiri society is a socialist-
production society, there will be no justification for the existence
of wage earners in all sectors, not only the education sector. There
will be no justification for the existence of wages in society. If we
have freed ourselves from the shackles of exploitation, how is that
some sectors are still enslaved by wages? Thus, we must for-
mulate ideas in all sectors, not just the education sector. The
integrated ideas will be formulated and submitted to the people's
general [words indistinct].
[Al-Qadhdhafi] [Passage indistinct]
[Unidentified speaker] We are waiting to see.what the people's
committees for education will do. They have had broad guidelines
sent to them, and we are waiting for a plan from them. To affirm
these and for them to become an order to be implemented, the
people's congresses must endorse them.
[Al-Qadhdhafi] Do you have meetings together?
[Unidentified speaker] We have not been meeting, but we are
planning to meet in a short time. A [word indistinct] meeting
between the General People's Committee and the General Peo-
ple's Congress Secretariat. We hold two or three meetings a year.
[Al-Qadhdhafi] Have you two not met since 7 April [word
indistinct] the General People's Committee and the General
People's Congress Secretariat.
[Unidentified speaker] No, we have not had an official meeting.
[Al-Qadhdhafi] [Passage indistinct]
(Unidentified speaker] [Passage indistinct]
[AI-Qadhdhafi] First of all, has the General People's Committee
not met since 7 April?
[Unidentified speaker] The General People's Committee has not
met since 7 April.
[Al-Qadhdhafi] What about the General People's Committee for
Education?
[Unidentified speaker] The General People's Committee for Edu-
cation has not met.
[Al-Qadhdhafi] Then why has the committee been set up?
[Unidentified speaker] The meetings were previously set on cer-
tain dates, and the next meeting will be in [word indistinct].
[Al-Qadhdhafi] Who set up the committee?
[Unidentified speaker] [Words indistinct] the committee is a
technical one made up of experts in education.
[Al-Qadhdhafi] Therefore, the people's committee has to meet
and then order the General People's Committee [as heard] to get
the General People's. Committee for Education to meet. The
General People's Congress then orders the establishment of a
technical committee. How could things be run this way?
[Unidentified speaker] With regard to the General People's
Committee [words indistinct] explaining the broad lines of the
ideas formed and in light of this, we must setup a committee to
study them .and, submit their proposals to the 'General People's
Committee for Education. Naturally, we look`at the issue from
two angles. The first is the form which the system would take
[words indistinct], and the second is that weliave relied on the
assumption that this kind of work depends on' initiatives; the
initiatives of those who are capable (words indistinct].
[Al-Qadhdhafi] That is different from the state of education.
[Unidentified speaker] [Words indistinct] We' must propose a
system and [words indistinct]. Naturally, the General People's
Committee for Education should look at a number of proposals.
[Unidentified speaker] [Passage indistinct]
[Unidentified speaker] This works according to Rule 9, concern-
ing instruction that seeks to (?train) 5,000 people under the age
of 40.. The rule is designed to take. them out of the civil service
sector and into production sectors. There was coordination with
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.ISRAEL
[Peres] Not unless they violated the law. I do not perceive any
violation in this case. Say Messrs Ben-Elisar, David Magen, and
Ehud Olmert believe the Americans should not have been given
what was conveyed to them - that is their right. Incidentally,
Mr Shamir thought as I did; Rabin thought the same; and the
Inner Cabinet approved this.
[Dayan] You are referring to the return of the documents?
[Peres] Yes. When did they become so clever? Just because they
call themselves a committee?
[Dayan] Mr Peres, in trying to summarize the last few hours and
the committees' reports and what you said, mainly about the
Eban committee, do you perhaps think that this committee's
findings will ultimately cause damage?
[Peres] I am not in the habit of handing out grades. I noticed that,
according to the media, there was a dispute within the committee
up until the last moment. I have no idea what happened in the
committee. Incidentally, here is another story: The Likud
members came out and said: We were not pressured. During
this entire period, I did not exchange one word with Eban, for
good or bad, on this matter. Thus, I do not need to hand out
grades. This is a parliamentary committee that will submit
its conclusions. I have not changed my opinion. I behaved cor-
rectly and, in my opinion, wisely and courageously. I assume that
the three Likud members have a great deal of wisdom, but they
are also influenced by additional considerations. That is all.
[Dayan] Mr Peres, we thank you very much.
[Peres] All the best.
USSR Said To Agree on Two Conference Conditions
TA270418 Jerusalem Domestic Service in Hebrew
0400 GMT 27 May 87
[Text] The Soviet Union accepts the principle that an interna-
tional conference would not impose its will on Israel and its
neighbors and that the negotiations would be conducted in a
bilateral framework. This emerged from contacts at the United
Nations between Israeli and Soviet representatives. Our cor-
respondent in Washington reports that the Soviets made it clear
that they regard 1987 as the target date for the convening of the
conference. The Soviet Union does not consider it essential that
the negotiations also deal with' a Palestinian state, but it insists
on the participation of a PLO representation in the talks.
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V. 27 May 87 Q 2
professional and vocational congresses in Tripoli so we could
work together with the owners and producers in these plants.
Indeed, thousands - we cannot say 5,000 - who were included
in the rule were distributed among workplaces and began to
work; that is say, they'started to train and study in accordance
with your directives on the 7 April anniversary. This is going on
in the vocational sector and in various types of plants, whether
mechanical or electrical. Of course, this is partial and simple
explanation, but it is the general structure with regard to educa-
tion. In our. proposal in the working paper put forward to the
General People's Committee, one of our suggestions was that one
type of permit, called a vocational permit, include teaching
schools, training centers, training schools, and the preparation of
computer programs, among other things.
[Al-Qadhdhafi] I do not agree with this. I believe it is clear that
there is nothing [words indistinct]. No one cares about anything.
[Words indistinct] these laws which must be implemented. We
were forced to set up revolutionary courts to implement these by
force; the force of law and the force of the revolution. God willing,
you will all know about the revolutionary courts which have been
set up in every municipality and every municipal section.
It is clear that laws have been passed, but if someone violates the
law there is no one to enforce it. We are forced to set up
revolutionary courts to try those who do not abide by the law.
The law is there; it was promulgated by people's congresses. The
party responsible for implementing the law and ensuring that it
is obeyed is not doing its job, an example being the municipal
guards who see illegal dealings and do nothing to (?stop them).
This is not related to the phenomenon of [word indistinct] from
the economic and social aspects, but this is prohibited legally. If
someone opens a shop on a street, no one is likely to ask him why
he is opening the shop or even where his license to do so is. This,
however, is the responsibility of the municipal guards.
Therefore, we are forced to set up a revolutionary court to try the
municipal guards and the municipal people's committee who do
not respect the laws promulgated by the people. We are forced
to set up. revolutionary courts - these have already been estab-
lished - to start investigating those who do not implement the
law. To me, laws and the people's interests are sacred. Those who
fail to honor them will be referred to a revolutionary court.
Revolutionary courts will continue until a people's court is set up.
A proposal was: submitted to the last session of the people's
congresses but was postponed for 1 or 2 years. Until a people's
court is established, all these matters will be referred to it.
Revolutionary courts will exercise these powers in its behalf on a
revolutionary basis. Society as a whole is based on revolution,
and, consequently, revolutionary courts have revolutionary legal-
ity.. We shall not repeat what you have said about education.
What has been decided must be implemented.
Everyone is free to learn in Libya. But there are those who do not
want to learn in preparatory and secondary schools. They want
to go to a workshop to learn how to paint cars or walls. They have
to find a workshop, and the person in charge of the workshop will
make a workshop available to them.
We will not repeat what was said on the subject on 7 April, 7
April, [Al-Qadhdhafi repeats date] but everyone of you, whether
an individual or a committee, can expect to be summoned to a
revolutionary court in any part of the Jamahiriyah at any time
for dereliction of the duties entrusted to you by the people.
It was understood that the next academic year would not start
until the system we mentioned was ready, and it must be ready.
Those who got their preparatory certificate in the year that has
just ended will see that in coming years, the available options will
be different from those of the past.
The other remark is that the industrial base established in this
country after the revolution has begun its demise [ar tahtadir].
We set up heavy and light industries in most industrial fields, but
to no avail. They have not satisfied demand, have not progressed,
have not mastered their industry, and have not provided goods at
low prices. If we are to bring in hard currency, where could we
export their products? Revolutionaries went to one of the fac-
tories where it seemed that the workers had sold the raw materi-
als and stopped the factory from operating. They sold the raw
materials in a partnership; they got money for the partnership in
exchange for the factory's raw materials.
This happened in the medical cotton and [words indistinct]. This
calls for fundamental changes in a way, but something else from
the legal perspective: Law looks at what is obvious: The fac-
tory stopped. Why did it stop? Why were the raw materials sold?
Those responsible will be referred to a revolutionary court.
Perhaps the factory needed spare parts. Why were spare parts
not brought in? [Passage indistinct]
Therefore, I (?believe) this country's industry will not progress;
it cannot have industry. On the contrary, we expect that in
coming period the industrial base we have established will col-
lapse. The quarry in Tripoli was closed down. How could a
factory be establshed? If it has been working for 2 or 5 years
years and is not economically viable, why was it established in
the first place? The medical goods factory which [passage indis-
tinct] raw materials and the factory was stopped. There is the
cement factory that cost millions to satisfy local consumption and
exports; our production now does not cover consumption.
For example, an industry that is set up in Libya needs conditions
different from those under which industries were established in
the past. Let us suppose it is a car factory, a car assembly plant.
There are factories in the country - one makes cables, one
makes nails, and so on. These are all necessary for a car. A car
needs nails, [as heard] ordinary nails. If we have a factory that
makes these nails, the car assembly plant should not have to
import nails to increase its productivity; we should be able to get
the products from our nail factory. Or a wire factory: The wire
factory must make wires for cars so that in the future, all car
wires will be available here. The thinking is backward. It does
not mean you have not graduated; some have graduated after
studying car, cement, and electronics manufacturing, but their
mentality is still backward. It is of no use. I assure you that this
is something to which we should apply ourselves.
I said the revolution begins now, because if the revolution started
today all of today's factories would be useless. If the revolution
does not correct itself, it must be corrected. The existing indus-
tries cannot go on. It is impossible for industry to [word indistinct]
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in this country, I am sure. If there are no raw materials, there is
no point in setting up an industry and burdening the country
[words indistinct] while you sell oil and use the profits to buy raw
material from abroad. When you can no longer sell oil, you will
not be able to buy raw materials and the factories will stop. All
the machinery that costs millions will stand idle. Why should we
buy them and then liquidate them? The workers will also have
to go.
Furthermore, the Libyan worker is not typical because he is not
needy, or anything like that. Well, he has money but it is not
exchangeable. Libyan money has no value now. What does it
mean when a kilo of meat costs 8 or 10 dinars? It means that
money has no value. Why does it not have value? Because there
is no production or sweat behind it. This money comes from
petroleum. There is no effort in petroleum; foreign companies
prospect for it and you sell it. Their is no production behind this
money. Perhaps it can be considered inflation.
There is no committed work force in the factories; today there
may be 500 workers in a factory, tomorrow 400, the day after
700, and then 200. Why do they come and go? Perhaps a worker
drives a taxi and is away from the factory for a week to drive his
cab and then comes back. This does not happen in any other
country in the world. He says: I have been called in for training.
Maybe they have called him in for a day and he goes off for 10
days and gets paid for it. This is a strain on the budget. This
should notbe possible. How can you give him money, how can you
pay when there is no production? When you stopped their pay,
they sold raw materials belonging to factories. We must not
deceive ourselves. There is no possibility of setting up industry.
Therefore, this is my idea: A new plan must be laid down that
could be submitted to people's congresses. I believe that industry
should be divided into three categories: heavy, medium, and
light. Luckily, raw materials for heavy industry are available in
oil, most importantly for the petrochemical industry. It is possible
to add the steel and chemical industries to this, because raw
materials are available in our country, such as [words indistinct]
and so on. .
The chemical, petrochemical, and steel industries will be publicly
owned. When we say publicly owned, we must note that in the
Jamahiri system there is no government, and as long as there is
no government, public ownership is not specified as it is in a state.
When we talk about public ownership in Yugoslavia, it means
ownership by the Yugoslav Government. When we talk about
public ownership in France, it means ownership by the French
Government. In the socialist-Marxist system, the so-called public
ownership or ownership by the people is ownership by the gov-
ernment, which is expressed by the state and is administered on
behalf of or for the benefit of the people. This is like the
government monopoly that existed in Libya before the revolution.
Things were monopolized and belonged to the government:
cigarettes and salt were government monopoly goods.
[Words indistinct] there is a problem about public ownership.
Public ownership, which you see before you now, is neglected
because there is no government behind it. All these factories are
under public ownership, as are the public agricultural projects
and public markets. There is public ownership; as long as there
is no government to manage them, they belong to the people and
they are free. Maybe one goes to drive a taxi and leaves the
factory; maybe one will be absent or sell raw materials. There is
no government factory whose workers can sell its raw materials,
after all, it belongs to the government and they might be sent to
prison for life. Can a worker in a government factory anywhere
in the world sell the plant's raw materials? He will get a life
sentence, even if he sells a handful of raw materials in a factory
owned by the government. There is no government here.
Who then are the owners? Ownership is the province of the
people; this must be reassessed. Heavy industries will be publicly
owned, and as long there is public ownership, the concerned
secretariat will represent the Jamahiri society. It will have
authority like a government in a country where government exists
and owns the factories. These factories, owned by society in the
Jamahiri system, will be under the control of the concerned
secretariat, which will manage them for the people's benefit.
These industries must be based on a cheap foreign labor force
and those Libyan workers who meet certain conditions. We will
bring cheap workers from all over the world, cheap technical
labor who will work for the secretariat responsible for heavy
industries. There is no partnership, or anything like it. This must
follow the government model that exists in any country of the
world: The government owns factories and employs labor.
Medium industries: These have failed the secretariats that
have been managing them. Not only under the Jamahiri system,
but everywhere in the world, when a government takes on some-
thing like this on a large scale, it fails in it. Medium industries
cannot be managed by secretariats, yet they are now attached to
secretariats - sometimes a heavy industry secretariat, or a light
or sometimes general one - and they are failures. The secretar-
iat is therefore not capable of managing these factories. Many
factories were established in the Jamahiriyah after the rev-
olution, and, in fact, there is a broad stratum of industry. But the
factories are declining and failing now because of the inability of
the secretariat concerned to control them. You have not been able
to encourage them. You have not made them partnerships and
have not madde them government-owned. On the one hand, you
are free; manage the people's committee and the people's con-
gress and you are free. On the other hand, there are wage earners
in these secretariats.
Consequently, they managed the factory without being partners
in it and could not care less if it stopped working. The secret is
that the notion of partners was not implemented. No one even
tried to implement it. If this notion is implemented - let us
suppose we have implemented it with 500 workers in one of our
factories. It will be confined to 500 workers, and none of these
500 workers would have the opportunity to earn money from any
other source except this factory. There is now an opportunity for
them to be partners in this factory, a partner in another factory,
and to do an independent job somewhere else - an irregular life
and no one to answer to. The secretariat is not in control and,
consequently, it would be difficult to manage this kind of industry
through the state, if this is the right term to use. This must be
collective ownership, not public ownership controlled and man-
aged by a specific secretariat, such as that of heavy industries.
This is public ownership belonging to the whole country, but
managed by a particular secretariat specified by the people.
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V. 27 May 87
For example, they would say that the heavy industries secretariat
is to manage heavy industries. The system would bring workers
from abroad - fire... those who are absent would be tried and
get no pay - to be controlled in this way. As for the medium
industries, which every party has failed to manage, they must
become collectively owned. What is collective ownership? We
talked about this last time. However, it became clear to me, after
distributing some revolutionary cadres in these factories who
found that workers were not techically competent, and that the
workers were not relying on these industries; they could not live
off them. [sentence as heard]
Furthermore, there is no serious intention; they are not taking
their ownership seriously. If you take 100 workers in a light
industry factory and tell them: It belongs to you, they will not
be prepared to manage it. They will be prepared to work in it in
a lowly manner; they work a few days and then are absent a few
days to do an independent job of their own. And, if they feel like
it, they will sell the factory's raw materials. There is no serious-
ness in this.
In collective ownership, we select a number of willing people and
give them the ownership of this factory. For example, we will tell
1,000 Libyans that there is a clothing factory, a furniture factory
[words indistinct] come and take over their ownership, instead of
them being owned by an individual and us working as his slaves,
and him taking all the profit. In this case, work and production
continue but the profit goes to one person, namely, the owner.
Factories owned by individuals work like clockwork, because
they are owned by an exploiter with a whip in his hand, who
employs, fires, and dispenses with workers as he wishes, and
controls their wages. People need him; the factory works per-
fectly well, and you will find its products on the market. But,
regrettably, the factory's profit will go to one exploiter; one
person will accumulate all this wealth. The just thing would be
for this wealth to go to its owners, to all the people and not to one
person. This is where ownership by the people instead of an
individual comes in.
Ownership by the people as we have it now, however, does not
lead to the desired results; the people do not satisfy their hunger
from this industry, nor do they find its goods on the market or
see it progress.
Therefore, we must find another solution. We must not go back
to exploitation, and we must not let things go on as they are.
Collective ownership means that we...[Al-Qadhdhafi changes
thought] let us give an example. Take a furniture factory in Jabal
al-Akhdar and get 1,000 Libyans and tell them: You take
ownership of this factory and repay the capital. This means that
the Libyan people will get back ...[Al-Qadhdhafi asks now much
the cost of such a factory would be, and an unidentified voice says
14 million] We tell you 1,000 Libyans are given a furniture
factory in Jabal al-Akhdar, and the people have paid 14 million
to build this factory for you. How many years will it take to pay
back the 14 million? You, the 1,000 Libyans, will live off this
factory.
This is [words indistinct] 1,000 Libyans own a furniture factory
in Jabal al-Akhdar and repay the Libyan people 14 million over
x number of years, and these 1,000 Libyans and their families
live off this factory and [word indistinct] its production. Those
1,000 decide how to run the factory; they appoint a manager and
a people's committee, employ workers from home or abroad,
make them partners or not, and so on. The people and the
committee set up by the people - the people's committee con-
cerned with light or medium industries - will hold accountable
the 1,000 people in the operation of this place. They can try it,
and once they realize that they can only live off of it, they will
manage.
Light industries: There must be partnerships, even in the very
very light industries. These will be partnerships of 5, 10, or 20
pole together, a family or single persons. We come to the
agriK,'iltural projects that are public, which we call public; they
are also declining because public property is not precisely defined
here. It is not government property. In another country when they
say public property, they mean government property. Its state
must be defined [words indistinct] the public projects would be
for export, that is, the Libyan state grows things and exports them
to bring in hard currency. We implement a project of growing
onions and selling them abroad. This will bring us money with
which we buy clothes.
This is one situation; the other situation is to see what the
domestic needs from agricultural projects are. These project's
produce would be made available in the market so that if a farmer
sells these things at a high price, the projects could sell the same
things at a cheaper price and let the people progress. Some would
say: Oh farmer, these oranges are expensive, I can go to the
public project and find things less expensive. So let the farmer
reduce his prices, and he would be more competitive.
The third situation is that these agricultural projects would be
[words indistinct]. For instance, we would introduce sugar beet
farming so that we would not have to import sugar, or tea leaf
farming so that we would not import tea, and other crops of this
kind - i.e., a very (?developed) agriculture. For this we could
implement public projects that would produce tea or sugar beets
or, let us say, cotton in Tazarbu.
Their form must be defined in this way. Industries must only be
set up if raw materials for them are available in Libya. If the raw
materials are available in Libya, then we are forced to make
industries for them. Petrochemical industries must be set up
because their raw material is oil. As for chemical industries, their
raw materials, salts, are available in Libya. Canning of sardines
and tuna must to be set up because the raw materials are
available in the Libyan sea. Industries for canning fruit and fruit
juice should be developed, and fruit should be canned and
pressed. Wool must be manufactured in Libya because wool is
available. Hide manufacturing must also be set up because skins
are available.
As for industries whose raw materials are not available, you
might not be able to buy the raw materials for them. This has
alreadyhappened; many plants came to a standstill because raw
materials were not obtained. Why? They said there was a hard
currency crisis or an oil crisis. If raw materials cannot be found
continually for an industry, why set up plants for it?
What is more important for us is this: If we decided to import
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all the commodities we have no hope of producing by ourselves
- because it is cheaper for us to import them from abroad and
because they save us money in this way - what are we to do with
the money thus saved?
The things for which we should save billions, care about, and
strive to ensure success with all the energy we possess are:
First, the desalination of seawater. You cannot expect the United
States, Britain, or Germany to provide you with a successful
process for desalinating seawater. After all, they have no need
for it. But we, in the underdeveloped world, sit and wait for what
the industrial world will offer us. There are things the industrial
world has no need for, and because it does not need them it does
not care about them. Consequently, we would get no benefit from
these things because the industrially advanced would not provide
us a solution for them. Do not expect Europe to show interest in
the desalination of the seawater because Europe has abundant
rain, rivers, and snow. Hence, it does not need to expend efforts
to desalinate seawater.
So, a country like Libya, situated in this region, must exert
maximum effort and save the largest amount of money. If we
were to stop industries that cost us a great deal of money, and
import manufactured goods cheaply instead of manufacturing
them ourselves, we would save money which could be used for
research in desalinating seawater. If we succeeded in reaching
this point, we would be working a miracle: Seawater would be
desalinated. With the exception of the Egyptian delta and, to
some extent, the coastal strip in the areas of the Atlas and
Al-Akhdar Mountains, it is not feasible for humans to live in this
region in the future unless we can utilize sea energy, solar energy,
or nuclear energy, or the like.
Thus, the second area of concern is energy in all its forms. We
must provide funds to attain progress in the field of nuclear
energy, or solar energy, or wind power, or any of the kinetic
forces.
In addition to seawater and energy in all its forms, the things we
should attend to include the sea's wealth. In my opinion, for us
to exert efforts in the field of sea wealth is a thousand times better
than expending efforts on the electronics industries, in which we
may not succeed. We are not an electronically minded people.
Furthermore, the electronics industry provides us with luxuries,
but luxuries are for people who enjoy stability. To enjoy a stable
life, one must have a source of subsistance. This is not available
to us.
You might take a television - even one manufactured by you -
and then you climb to [word indistinct] and throw it away,
because there are no programs for you to watch if you move from
one place to another.
You would even have to leave Tripoli if its water became salty.
Even without law, coercion, or force, the people would leave
Tripoli if its water became salty. You could amass [wealth] in
Tripoli, but you would have to drink the salt. Despite what you
wanted, you will have to go to a place that television cannot reach.
What would happen to the television service? It would become a
joke and a luxury, of no value whatsoever to people like us who
live in an area between Chad, the Egyptian desert, and the
It is better for us to address ourselves to the wealth of the sea, so
that we may enjoy stability and stick to the coast. Thus, it would
not become'a vacuum coveted by westerners who are preparing
to recolonize it anew.
Unfortunately, the fields with potential for success are being
neglected. The sea wealth - which should be given priority -
is the one that is being neglected.
The other field we must address is that of international trade. A
country like Libya - which is a desert and lacks rain, rivers, and
any industrial potential, and whose sources of subsistance are
limited or will become nil - must make use of the long 'stretch
it occupies on the Mediterranean, which is renowned for trade.
We must make use of this and turn it into a commercial area.
We must transport Africa's trade across the Mediterranean to
Europe, and carry Europe's trade to Africa through our ports.
Had it not been for this factor, the towns in which we live now
would not have been established. The Phoenicians came as
traders and established the three cities, Tripolis, which means
three cities. The Phoenicians ...[AI-Qadhdhafi changes thought]
the Greeks established the five cities at Jabal al-Akhdar in
Cyrenaica. They did so for commercial reasons. Had it not been
for trade, these towns would not have been built. Then came the
Romans who discovered the towns built by the Phoenicians and
Greeks and developed them. We now consider the ancient monu-
ments as Roman.
Then we came and said, this is Tripoli, without actually knowing
what the word Tripoli means. Then came our sons, who found
the oil and began to sell it, and thus have plenty of money. They
did not think: Where shall we get water? When the oil is
depleted, what will happen? They did not think about what would
bring them water and food. So they began importing marble,
glass, and mosaics. Each spent enough money on his own home
to build an entire village. This trivial mentality has prevailed.
What brought you to Tripoli in the first place? Tripoli was
originally a place of trade; otherwise, there would have been
nothing called Tripoli, or Oea, Leptis, or.`Sabratha.' It is a
The next field which we must address is that of tourism. Libya
must become a country of tourism. This is 'another source of
wealth. Libya must live on tourism, on international trade, on
desalination, and on the exploitation of energy in all its forms, as
well as moving toward the construction of dams and reservoirs.
We have to rely on dams and reservoirs, from the homes to the
dams in valleys, instead of the rivers and rain. [sentence as heard]
All must save rainwater. Naturally,'the most. important?regions
in this regard are the mountains of Jabal al-Akhdar and Jabal
al-Gharbi. But even the rain that falls on the coast should not be
lost,in the soil or in the sea, or through evaporation. To us, the
dams and reservoirs are the same as rivers and the snow.
But we are lagging behind in useful and feasible matters. For
example, when foreign companies come rushing to make offers
to you for anything - say for a circus - you give them the money
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and they,build you the circus. This is because they make you a
tempting offer. But can you eat or drink the circus? You laugh,
but actually they are the ones who make a mockery of you. Have
.they ever done anything with the desalination of seawater, the
sea's wealth, or the dams and reservoirs? No. Even when we try
to build a dam, they just sit and watch. They do not link`itto an
irrigation network or to a town so that it can have drinking water.
Or the dam collapses, as was the case with the (?Qattara)
depression dam; or they just (?sit and watch), as at the dam of
(?Al-Minjim), or any other place. The water in the dam evap-
orated because of a lack of pipes and the lack of an irrigation
network. The dam costs millions, and all the pipes cost only one
million.
Next comes pastureland.. Ours is not a country for farms, but
pasturelands; a pastureland for camels and poultry only. Libya
is not suitable for sheep or cattle; these only spoil the soil and
have no use. It would be better for. you to raise poultry. This
country could become a world poultry farm. If poultry cannot
live in Libya, where else can it live? Poultry live on the simplest
of things, so we can easily raise them. We would have tens of
millions of poultry and thousands of poultry farms. But this is a
field in which we lag behind.
Some have embarked on raising cattle. We should not provide
them with water, which we lack. We should not provide technol-
ogy and veterinary services to something we care nothing about.
We should not get involved in these costs - to buy cartons, put
milk in them, and then sell them. I believe it would be better to
buy milk from abroad. All our lives we have been purchasing milk
from abroad cheaply, and this is good. Thus, we save the money
we would spend on running projects - such as with cows and
other things - projects we are sticking to without thinking, and
use it for raising poultry.'It is better for us to use it for breeding
poultry.
You are spending money on things that are difficult. You say:
This instrument is manufactured abroad, but we should man-
ufacture one here' It is e'asy,to go to a company and say: Could
you build' me an instrument plant? The company would tell
you: All right,, give us a billion and we will build you the
instrument plant. So you go ahead and assemble a plant and bring
in foreign workers. But, after some years, I ,am sure'we will find
that they are using the plant's tools as supports for tents or cars.
This is what is actually happening.
Then you buy video monitors, and you 'pay millions for them.
They bring'you.monitoring screens, install them in the units for
control, and hand them over to you. But after a few months, you
find you cannot use them. You ask why. They tell you the
company has ground to a halt because it does not have spare
parts. Or they tell'you the technician we have employed has been
late to arrive; he could not obtain a visa. Or that we could not
transfer money abroad; the bank has failed to make the transfer,
it has no funds., Why do you involve yourselves in such matters
as long as they are' beyond your capabilities? Use your eyes to
control workers;. do not use screens. The screens are good for
advanced people who possess spare parts and use screens as you
use rabbit traps. We produce traps; they produce screens, which
are nothing out of the ordinary for them.
Small countries like Libya, Tunisia, and Egypt seek to have an
advanced industry. [Words indistinct) either all the Arabs run
industry or not at all. Though small countries like Switzerland,
Luxembourg, or the Netherlands have been able to run indus-
tries, it is because they have the capabilities and the resources -
foremost of which is water. Bring us heavy rains and we will be
able to run everything and change our programs. But we do not
have water even for drinking purposes, let alone water for run-
ning industries. Plants need water and raw materials. They have
wealth to sell, and they use the money to buy the raw materials
they need, if they do not have them already.
But you have neither the resources to sell, in order to get money
to buy raw materials, nor do-you have raw materials available.
You now have oil. When the oil runs out, tell me where you will
get the raw materials. Now you sell the oil, which brings you
money, and you buy raw materials with the money. You do not
have materials, so now you sell the oil and buy the materials.
When the oil runs out, you will have neither the oil nor the
materials. So the plant will come to a halt and become an ancient
monument for people to come and visit.
We, the stagers of the revolution, are responsible for all these
things. But now we are rethinking matters. I used to tell you:
Do not import anything from abroad; manufacture it locally. We
can abolish the pencil industry; it is costing us a great deal of
money. If we were to buy a pencil from abroad, it would have
been cheaper and would require no effort on our part. The money
we spend on the pencil plant could be used to finance a sea wealth
industry or tourist industries, which would be better.
We have gone a long way in our process of rethinking. I am sure
that every factory will close down in the coming years and all
public agricultural projects will be abandoned if we continue as
we are. Many plants have closed down for lack of raw materials,
or because the bank did not transfer the needed funds. Did you
not consider such matters at the outset? We are now reorganizing
ourselves and bringing ourselves to task. We do not want to put
anyone on trial, for it is we who are responsible.
If we are to continue purchasing what we want without man-
ufacturing it ourselves, and endure all these huge costs, we would
have to create a national product that would enable us to import
these things. But could this be?
First, as I have already told you, a country like Libya can raise
nothing other than camels and poultry. The camel is a huge
animal, bigger than a cow. The camel can usually live without
food and water. It is a huge animal, and it has both milk and
meat. It can be used in place of a car; it can be ridden. Then there
are the domesticated animals - rabbits, birds, geese, and
pigeons. All these can live in Libya and can be satisfied with the
rainfall, which amounts to 200 mm, or even 150 mm. This would
be sufficient to produce plants to feed the domesticated animals.
This is part of our wealth that we can export - poultry and
camels. We must breed them and export them. The wealth of the
sea should also be sufficient for us to export a part of it.
As for public projects, we can turn them toward exports. There
are agricultural products that cannot be planted in Europe or in
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other countries. So we can plant them. We can, for example,
establish a huge project for garlic which we would export abroad.
This is more expensive than oil. We can establish a project for
oranges and export them abroad. We can establish a project for
palm trees and export dates. Europe does not have palm trees.
They resort to making sweets because they do not have palm trees
or dates. But we, who have dates, have abandoned all that and
embarked on producing milk and concluded contracts with Eur-
ope for the importation of sweets from Europe.
Tourism is also a wealth. It can bring you money with which you
can buy anything you wish. Trade is also a wealth. I do not mean
trading in which one Libyan would sell to another and exploit
him. Libya should sell to others. Baiter trade should begin here,
probably from the beginning of June when people will have
harvested their crops. Barter will begin then. The one who wants
to buy rice will have to give wheat or barley in return. Without
this, the Libyans would not pay any attention to their land.
Money will have no value. The Libyan dinar now' has no value.
There is huge inflation. This is evident from the prices of com-
modities, any commodities. This means inflation. Why? Because
Libyan currency is not backed by production; there is no produc-
tion. All there is, is oil.
So the people must be forced to turn to their land and produce.
Barter is the only way to do so, to use national produce for
bringing products from abroad. If you do not have a local product
or national product, then you should not expect to get something
from abroad for yourself; neither rice, nor sugar, nor tea, nor
anything else. If you want anything of this sort, you have to
produce. Bring a quantity of wheat and get a quantity of rice in
return. But if they bring you rice and you do not havemeat to
give, you get nothing. Money is no longer useful.
Bring sheep hides, bring wool, bring camel hides. Bring any
national produce. Bring fish from the sea. Thus, you live and let
others live. But the monetary system has made people live on the
palm of a devil; once he pulls his hand away, people will fly into
the air. Barter will begin at the end of this month. Money is no
longer useful. Foreign commodities cannot be bought with
money.
When we talked about agriculture, I am not sure if I spoke about
the Mediterranean plants or not. This is in addition to the palm
tree. There are many plants that consume a great deal of water,
beyond all reason. We, on the coast, plant Mediterranean plants.
But we must plant palm trees in the interior, only palm trees.
Our catastrophe will come from motors, which appear as a
blessing but conceal harm within. The motor now makes the
farmers happy, by bringing them water to irrigate and to improve
their produce so they can sell it. But tomorrow there will be no
more water and the palm trees and other trees will dry up and
wither, and the peasants will die. The catastrophe is coming, and
we can see it before us now. The palm trees have begun to harden.
This is the portent of catastrophe; this is the signal of catastrophe.
The catastrophe lies in motors. These motors should be classified
with other banned materials in the world, such as drugs. The
motor owner should be considered as a drug dealer. The motors
should be replaced by windmills.
The palm trees must live. They must be planted in areas close to
water resources and live on the soil. The roots of the palm trees
will extend to the water. But to plant palm trees and then bring
water from under the soil to irrigate them is wrong. In the north,
we plant Mediterranean plants only. In the hinterland, we plant
palm trees.
If the state wants to earn income for its budget, it must not do so
at the expense of the citizens' basic needs. Food, housing,
transportation, and clothing are all essential commodities, and it
is completely prohibited to trade in them. You cannot buy a shirt
for 5 and sell it for 10. How can you trade in this manner, whether
you are a public store, a merchant, or an individual?
Food provisions are excluded because they are essentials. You
are not the ones who founded this theory; it was founded by other
people before us. This is because they are vital, so much so that
we do all we can to bolster them. Clothing is essential. How can
you go about trading in clothing? If you were allowed to buy a
shirt from Europe for 5 and sell it here to us for 10, then oil, rice,
and similar commodities would be bought by 5 and sold for 20.
But what actually happens is the opposite: We buy it for 20
and sell it for 10. You buy the car for 2,000 and then turn around
and sell it to the citizens for 10,000. It is illogical to permit
trading in such matters. You must sell the car at the price for
which you bought it.
As for housing, there can be no trading in building materials. As
for televisions, air conditions, fans, paper, pens, etc., you must
impose higher taxes and customs duties on them. To impose taxes
on clothing, means of transportation, houses, and machines is
illogical.
This brings us to the public markets. There were those people
about whom we had talked, who opened shops and operated in
the way of which we have already spoken; they constituted an
inactive, wasted force. But we have brought them back and made
them active through the distribution operation. We said a retired
person or even a disabled person who cannot operate a telephone
exchange - there are some disabled who lost their legs but still
can operate a telephone exchange - can all be utilized by our
opening of distribution shops for them.
The same applies to women who are idle, too. They can be utilized
through the distribution operation. They can open shops and
work in the limited activities we have spoken of. All this must
start through the public markets. But to whom do these public
markets belong?
Let us begin with the public markets. Who is responsible for the
public markets? First there is the question of the [ration] cards
or booklets. [Words indistinct] do you know what has happened?
I have been told that some individuals have four or five cards.
Nobody tells them that they have enough commodities or stops
them from doing what they are doing. No, in fact these people
go and get more cards through neighbors or others. This is not a
sign of progress. What is the solution? The solution is that these
cards should not be issued by the market authority or secretariat
concerned. They should be issued by the authority under which
a person is listed. That should be the authority that issues these
cards, in which case a person'would get only one card, no more.
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V. 27 May 87
For example, all members of Agricultural Congress No 1 would
get their consumption cards there. I give farmers as an example
because a farmer does not come under any particular public
authority. A farmer does not move because he is tied to his land
and farm. But if he should move to Agricultural Congress No 2,
then the previous card number one would be withdrawn and he
would be issued with card No 2. The same should apply to
employees and others. Everyone should follow one particular
authority, even if that authority happens to be the secretariat, in
which case the secretariat would issue cards to its own members.
Furthermore, these markets should be organized in such a way
as to provide commodities at cost price, without any profiteering
as we have said. Commodities would therefore be available on
the market at cheap prices. One who is not disciplined would have
to go to the shops, not the public markets, for his supplies, and
pay higher prices. The public markets should be the cheapest in
order to be able to compete and persuade people to turn away
from the shops and go to the public markets. When you go to the
public market and benefit from it, however, you should dem-
onstrate some ethics and discipline in the manner we have spoken
The existing phenomena and their causes are quite another issue.
The law must apply. If a person indulges in brokerage then his
goods should be confiscated according to the law. The law
promulgated by the people should be applied by force. (?You
should let the courts decide), but you are lenient. You have your
municipalities, police, and courts. A committee that fails should
be brought to trial - its secretary, members, and others involved.
How could you allow people to engage in brokerage right before
your eyes? How? Let us look at any municipality. How could you
allow brokerage? [Words indistinct] a broker should be arrested
and asked: Whom do you follow? Where is your card? Where
do you live? Where is your social security? Where is your salary
and income?
This is a crime. If a beggar is found, the person in question should
be arrested. The people's committees concerned should pursue
the matter, and everything should appear before the rev-
olutionary court. It does not matter if 1,000 people are sacrificed
in order that we can take a step forward in organization and
ethics. It is inconceivable for you not to shoulder your duties and
responsibilities. If you are told that a certain person is begging,
all agencies should act. How could he beg and why? You have
the files. This person gets such a salary. The stated penalty is
such and such, and so legal measures should be taken against him
instead of giving him money.
Begging, brokerage - all this is prohibited. If one says: I am
poor and I have nothing to eat, this is another matter. But your
duty is to enforce the law. Brokerage is prohibited, and that is
what you have to implement, even if there are 1,000 or even a
million cases a day. You have the municipalities, the police, the
courts, the prosecution, and the law. If a person claims to have a
small income and that-he is thus forced to become a broker, the
court will not listen to that. It will tell him: Shut up. Did you
or did you not engage in brokerage? He says: Yes, I did. The
law prohibits brokerage and profiteering in this country, and if
the penalty under the law is 5 years then he should be imprisoned
for 5 years. That is all. Even if everyone ends up in prison, it must
be understood that this is an education and experiment. If one
goes to prison for a crime, this is education and culture. Who said
that prison and execution and such things are not good lessons?
They are very useful lessons. Punishment is a part of life.
[Koranic quotation]
[Unidentified speaker] [Passage indistinct]
[Al-Qadhdhafi] Well, you will see when I send you to the rev-
olutionary courts tomorrow. All of you would be gathered and
brought before the revolutionary courts: Why was there an
instance of brokerage in your municipality when you have a
municipal guard, police, committees, and a law at your disposal?
What would you have to say?
The formation of revolutionary committees everywhere is com-
ing. They will deal not only with such matters, but with all laws
issued by legislation which were not carried out.
[Unidentified speaker] [Words indistinct] revolutionary court.
[Al-Qadhdhafi] There is a law which prohibits eating in the
street. It prevents anyone walking in the street from eating bread.
We might go to any municipality. If we see a man eating in the
street and the police see him and do nothing, and the municipal
guard does not say anything to him, this would be a phenomenon
recorded in that municipality or constituency. Then we go to the
municipal committee, the general municipal committee, the
municipal secretary, the municipal guards, and the police and
ask them: Does the law not say that such a thing is prohibited?
Why did you do nothing about it?
There is now a slackening in the application of the law. Maybe
you do not want to enforce the law. Another person might drive
in the street without lights. No one comes to tell him anything.
Who said that the popular authority was (?a burden)? There must
be a popular authority. A worker might be absent from the
factory. By overlooking this, you become the enemy of people's
power, because you are encouraging the forces opposed to the
popular authorities. Workers sell raw materials. Has anyone
said: Let the workers sell raw materials. There is a law and
there are popular authorities concerned with the sale of raw
materials in the factory and the wreaking of havoc with public
funds. Such people are enemies of people's power. In general, the
revolutionary committees have [words indistinct].
We must abide by the program of only manufacturing what we
are capable of, and adopt the program of importation because it
is cheaper to import goods. The money we save must be used in
the projects I have just spoken about - the desalination of
seawater, the production of energy in all its forms, sea wealth,
international trade, tourism, and the building of dams and reser-
voirs, as well as in pasturelands for camel and poultry breeding.
Industry would be confined to things we can manufacture and
for which we have the raw materials. If there are industries that
should be there, and the age demands that they should be there,
I believe they should be embodied in a program in which all the
Arab countries throughout the Arab homeland should partici-
pate. The Arab homeland may manufacture an airplane, a car,
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a ship, or television sets. But a state like us [passage indistinct].
Even education has begun to deteriorate because the lecturer is
no longer a lecturer; he is no longer respected. His training is
weak; he becomes a wheeler-dealer. Students cheat to pass. The
result of all this will become apparent in the future. It is like
someone who takes sedatives [words indistinct]. In the future the
results will become apparent. Anyone who wants to be a teacher
should have a high standard from the very start. He should do
well in education courses. The one who achieves the highest
marks should become a lecturer; in primary and secondary
schools and institutions, those who score the highest marks
should become teachers. What is more, a teacher should follow
continuous training periods [words indistinct].
A teacher should enjoy comfort. His salary should be provided.
In fact, if a teacher is not feeling comfortable he cannot produce.
If anyone should be comfortable, it is the teacher before all
others. The teacher is the person who educates the people of each
generation. He teaches them how to manufacture, how to eat,
how to drink, how to read. All these things are taught to us by
one person. Someone who cannot find a place to live will have
difficulty teachingat a university, school, or institution. Will he
be thinking about his lessons or about where he is to live? Will
he think about his transport, wondering: Once I finish the
lesson, will I be able to catch a bus or not? The bus should be
guaranteed; the train should be guaranteed; a private car should
be guaranteed; a plane should be guaranteed; a rented car should
be guaranteed.
Very well, I have ended my remarks in this respect. I have before
me a remark that some winter clothes are being sold in the market
during the summer [words indistinct].
This is reportedly because there has been a delay in allocating
the funds, and as a result the seasonal clothes did not arrive. They
allocate the funds during the summer to purchase winter clothes,
and so forth. If we want to buy something, we should buy
immediately and allocate funds soon. If we do not want to buy,
then we do not buy. But when we say, do not allocate funds for
these things, or we should reduce them because they are not
essential, we are talking about less important things. If we cannot
acquire chairs, or loudspeakers, or telephones until the new year,
we can postpone purchasing them and save the money. But we
do not intend that people should not acquire clothes, or food, or
cars. These are essentials which should by no means be delayed.
When we have no money, there is nothing we can do. If there is
no money, you must manage somehow.
Does anyone have anything to say? Anything at all? Good, as if
there are no remarks, I bid you farewell [words indistinct].
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