AL-QADHDHAFI SPEAKS OUT ON VARIOUS ISSUES

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP05-01559R000400410040-6
• Release Decision: RIFPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 10
• Document Creation Date: December 22, 2016
• Document Release Date: January 30, 2012
• Sequence Number: 40
• Publication Date: February 24, 1986
• Content Type: OPEN SOURCE

&AD
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JPRS-NEA-86-055
29 April 1986
AL-QADHDHAFI SPEAKS OUT ON VARIOUS ISSUES
Beirut AL-KIFAH AL-'ARABI in Arabic-24 Feb 86.pp 12-17
[Interview with Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi by Walid al-Husayni: "Al-Qadhdhafi
Warns Gulf Countries:' If Oil 'Quotas and Prices Are Not Adjusted,'Gulf War
Will Spread'to All Oil-Producing Countries in the'Region"; in Tripoli,
date not specified]
[Text] You come upon the Libyan Sea from the air or from the Surt-Tripoli
road and you see a calm, quiet sea. Meanwhile, people and radio stations
are saying and the news agencies and'the world press are reporting that the
Sea of Surt is the' event-filled region that can lead the'area to the brink
of war.
You enter Tripoli and find scores of progressive world leaders and American
groups who chose to visit Libya during its confrontation with Reagan to
underscore the?fact that Reagan's ban on American travel can be defied in
the same way that Libyans have defied his fleets and aircraft carriers.
You look?for al-Qadhdhaf-i?amidst'this hectic climate warning of a military
confrontation with the greatest power in the world and you find him atop an
agricultural tractor tilling the land or on vacation in the desert with his
wife and children. You miss him here only to find him suddenly in a meeting
with the pan-Arab leadership of the Arab revolutionary forces or in long
meetings with Palestinian and Lebanese national leaders. You watch him on
Libyan TV at his tent receiving envoys and delegations only to hear that he
was in Algeria on a unionist mission with Chedli Bendjedid and, upon expect-
ing to see him returning from Algeria, you suddenly find him on a military
boat at the farthest point he declared out of bounds to the American navy
at a time when American maneuvers had reached their highest level.
You try to steal a little of his time, but French involvement in Chad takes
him away from you.
And just when you think that he is most busy, he suddenly expresses a wish
to talk to you, and exciting and serious surprises start following one after
the other through this interview.
[Question] How do you perceive the end of the American-Libyan conflict?
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[Answer] I do not perceive an end to this conflict so long as there is an
American imperialist policy striving to contain the world and seeking to
bring all regions under its influence. Basically, the conflict is not
between Libya as such and America as such or between an American president
and a Libyan president. What we have between us is a clear and glaring
example of the kind of relationship that is inevitable between America, with
its imperialist orientation, and between every country in the world seeking
liberation and a safe and peaceful existence. There is a great contradiction
between America and the countries of the world which can only be resolved
through a broader conflict and, consequently, more intensive popular
resistance to American ambitions.
This must not hide the fact that the conflict is ultimately between the
superpowers; namely, the socialist camp and the imperialist camp, or the
Soviet Union and the United States. The victims of this world conflict,
however, are the other peoples, because the superpowers cannot clash without
passing through areas inhabited by weaker peoples. America believes that it
cannot surround the Soviet Union unless it occupies the Arab Nation and
controls the Mediterranean Sea, thus extending its bases from West Europe
across the Mediterranean to the Arab countries, all the way to its chief
base in occupied Palestine, and its bases in the Indian Ocean, the
Philippines, and the Pacific Ocean.
It is a strategic encirclement that can only be achieved by subjugating all
the people in this region, from the Philippines to the Arab countries, and
all the way to those countries that have not entered into alliances with it,
such as West Europe, and those who refused to be one of its bases, as
Israel has become. The United States believes that these regions must come
under its influence and that is why it brandishes all kinds of weapons, from
provocation to terrorism to force.
In Libya we mean more than that to the United States. We are the force
that awakens Arab zeal through our progressive unionist concept. America
believes that Arab unit represents a real blow to its interests and influence
which it has realized through divisiveness and its agents in the Arab nation.
Therefore, in its conflict with us, it tries to destroy the serious unionist
liberationist endeavor in the Arab nation.
Dialogue with America Is Useless
[Question] With the exception of provocative maneuvers and the concentra-
tion of fleets and aircraft carriers, are there contacts between you and
the United States?
[Answer] Several countries have tried to mediate between us and the United
States, such as Yugoslavia, Greece, Malta, Algeria, Morocco, and Saudi
Arabia. The United States has rejected such efforts, however, insisting
on realizing its ambitions by threats, force, and economic warfare.
From the outset, we have been of the opinion that dialogue with America is
useless and that confrontation is the only solution. When we accepted
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mediation, we really did not want it. Our acceptance was meant to confirm
to our friends and Arab brothers America's real objectives in its confronta-
tion with us. We wanted friendly and fraternal countries to see for
themselves that America's pretenses are different from its goals.
We are more determined to bring other elements into our conflict with the
United States which, should it persist in its provocations, will force us
to take the battle, through revolutionary forces and our allies, to America
itself and to the heart of its military bases. We will keep up this action
until America adheres to its borders and leaves us, as Arabs, alone to
liberate ourselves, unite, and build our future.
We Are Prepared for Air Strikes Against Israel
[Question] Arab sources told AL-KIFAH AL-'ARABI that you prepared for a
naval strike in the Israeli heartland to preempt a military action Israel
had threatened to undertake against Libya following the Vienna and Rome
operations. Did you really prepare for such a strike and what led you to
cancel this action?
[Answer] It is true. But we prepared for an air and not a naval strike.
We gave up this option at the last moment, however, because it was limited
retaliation and this is what we do not want. We were hoping that Israel
would attack Libya because that would have meant war which would have given
us the right to undertake military operations that would only have ended
with destruction of the Zionist entity itself.
We wanted the Zionists to carry out their threats so as to surround them
everywhere and attack them from everywhere, thus declaring a state of war
and bringing everything in this region under the law of war.
[Question] Do you believe that the American "veto" of the Security Council
bill to condemn Israel for hijacking the Libyan plane has accorded inter-
national legitimacy to your decision to go after Israeli aircraft?
[Answer] Of course. This is true. Precedence is one of the sources of
law. Therefore, my decision to go after Israeli civilian aircraft was not
announced until after the United States permitted such an action by using
the right of veto in the Security Council. We waited for world conscience
to have its say in this regard, but America had rendered the world callous
so we had to follow their example.
[Question] Did you pave the way for your decision to go after Israeli
aircraft with Arab and international contacts?
[Answer] We informed our allies and friends of our decision before making
it public, but we did not consult with them. We told them that we were
going to adopt such a decision and were informing them prior to making it
public, but we did not ask for their advice.
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[Question] How long will the decision remain in force?
[Answer] We will not tire and will not let up. The day will come when,we,
will definitely triumph over them.
[Question] Does your position as commander of the Arab revolutionary forces
mean that any operation undertaken by an national leadership faction is
subject to your prior approval or can certain operations be carried out on
the sidelines as part of the faction's own program without checking with
you?
[Answer] Leadership does not mean going into details and approving every-
thing. This is the job of the field command whereby the commander approves
each individual operation. My command is.not afield command;, but rather a?
political, revolutionary, national one aimed.at mobilizing the political,:.'-
revolutionary, and national effort for the sake of liberation and unity.i As
for the means of implementation and target selection, they are part of the
private program of each organization and may be part of its-secrets,.and
therefore, we cannot ask the organizations to tell us about them, nor do.we
give ourselves the right to know about them.
Suicide Teams' Mission
[Question] During the session of the popular conference, a heated and
intense discussion occurred about the formation of suicide teams. Will
such teams operate in the shadow of the current level ; of.tension,?or will
this role be limited 'to missions in retaliation for American or Israeli...-
aggression against Libya?
[Answer] The fact is that the role of suicide teams will depend. on. aggression
against Libya or.any other Arab country, be it by America or Israel..' We, as
a national command, represent the entire Arab nation. Therefore, any..
,_ .
Israeli oryAmerican aggression against the Arab nation,will,mean,. by
necessity, the unleashing of suicide teams to counteract such. aggression.
[Question] Despite the popular outrage generated, by the American-Libyan
confrontation throughout the Arab nation, reaction by, Arab labor', federations
and unions has.been cool insofar as their failure to. adopt severe measures
against American planes and ships in retaliation for the.American boycott of
Libya. To what do you attribute this attitude?
[Answer] This is because the federations and unions have become state-
controlled. While we are proud of the massive demonstrations staged all over
the world by'labor and popular organizations-in support of Libya, it is:,
regrettable that such action was not undertaken in the Arab nation because
of the officialcharacter,of such organizations.
Workers and organizations demonstrated around American embassies in many
places, clashing with their own police, except in .the Arab nation where the
governmental theory is supreme; hence, our struggle.is to replace it with
the popular theory.
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No Mediation, No Truce with Egypt
[Question] How true are the news reports about a Sudanese role between
Libya and Egypt?
[Answer] No, no, they are groundless. We are not looking f'or any kind of
mediation with Egypt. Meeting with Egypt is conditional on a one-point
agenda: to discuss its departure from the [Camp] David stable. This must be
made perfectly clear.
We will not accept mediation and will not accept a truce. We will tighten
up our boycott measures against it and will make all those who try to lift
the blockade pay the price, be they individuals or countries.
Any individual or state that invests in Egypt to help it counteract the
effects of the Arab boycott imposed by the Arab League is considered to be
working against the Arab will and the sacred national cause.
[Question] Then how do you explain Libyan support of the new Sudanese
government that has maintained its special relations with the Egyptian
regime?
[Answer] Everything in Sudan is temporary now. There is no fixed policy
because there is no fixed authority.
The 6 April revolution has been put on hold temporarily because a temporary
military council has come to power and has set up a provisional government.
In other words, everything in Sudan now is provisional, based on the
triumph of the 6 April revolution and the people. Consequently, we will
naturally be on Sudan's side at this stage, because we are on the side of
its popular revolution which has created the present situation. But when
the temporary situation comes to an end and the people's authority is
established, it is certain that there will not be any kind of relations with
any regime that recognizes the Israeli enemy, be it Egyptian or any other
rule.
We will be on Egypt's side when it assumes its leadership of the liberation
and unity battle, as it did in 'Abd-al-Nasir's time. But when it leads
apostasy and defeat, we will not support it, neither in Sudan nor in Libya
nor anywhere else in the Arab nation.
[Question] Libya's position on events in Democratic Yemen has not yet been
classified. Can you shed some light on this matter?
[Answer] Information we have received so far says that the fighting has
actually stopped, but the country is still sitting on a time bomb.
Unfortunately, there is a possibility that the fighting will resume and this
will be regrettable and painful.
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We have regretted the outbreak of fierce fighting in Aden that claimed
thousands of victims whose blood would have been enough to liberate Palestine
or fully liberate the area surrounding Yemen.
It is not easy, however, for anyone to respond to people who have destroyed
their country in such a fashion. What kind of assistance can ben offered so
long as they have recklessly destroyed their civilian targets with strategic
missiles?
In general, the new forces in Yemen are unknown to us. We have heard one
or two names we know, such as 'Ali Salim al-Bid. The fact is that he is
a young revolutionary and our friend. I met him personally at the summit
conference which was held before 'Abd-al-Nasir's death. The man has come to
Tripoli several times, and I have come to know him well through these visits.
I consider him a personal friend, and he is the only second- or third-line
leader whom we in the Libyan leadership know and consider a~friend. None-
theless, we are not sure whether he is actually running the show or whether
he is merely a figurehead because the names we know are gone. 'Ali Nasir is
out of power, and 'Ali Antar, Salih Muslih, and 'Abd-al-Fattah Isma'il have
been killed. These were the leaders we knew, but the new names are unknown
to us. We hope that the brothers in Yemen will keep Yemen as a revolutionary
country opposed to reactionism and imperialism and serious about realizing
Yemeni unity, liberating Muscat and Oman, and not betraying the revolution.
If there is a danger of resumed fighting, I call upon all sides to negotiate.
We in Libya-declare our readiness to mediate between 'Ali Nasir and the rest
of the brothers so that they will not once again turn to arms to settle their
differences.
[Question] The Jamahiriyah has witnessed massive movement at the oil price
level. Have you arrived at a plan to deal with this situation?
[Answer] I view the subject of oil as a matter of a real war which is very
destructive. It is no less significant than the war of planes and warships
that destroy factories and the economic effort of any country.
This war is directed against Libya, Iran, and Algeria. These three'countries
have suffered great harm. Those who have declared the oil war on these
countries are as bad or worse than those who have declared military war.
Before I shed light on the most serious point in this question, I would like
to go back to some of the beginnings. We know that Saudi Arabia was not
responsible for this matter in its early stage because the excesses that
have created the current oil situation were committed by other Arab countries,
notably Iraq, and some OPEC members such as Nigeria at earlier times, and
some Arab emirates such as al-Shariqah and Abu Dhabi; I exclude Dubayy.
These countries acted outside the organization, exporting their oil at the
whim of the rulers in any quantities and at any price.
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These. countries are the ones that violated the-production level of no more
than 16 million barrels a day. Saudi Arabia had warned repeatedly against
the dangers of such practices on the future of the oil market, but no one
paid heed.. Now it has absolved itself of this commitment and has begun
.flooding the oil market..
Now, Saudi Arabia is responsible for everything that.is happening, but the
reason was that those countries failed to abide by the set quotas. Saudi
Arabia, by its recent behavior, is committing the same sin, even though I
exonerate it and stand by it because it always used to cry out against
production and price manipulation, but the others used cunning to sell above
their quotas at low prices. But..the Saudi step has had serious consequences
on countries,such as Libya,-Algeria,. and Iran. If Saudi Arabia does not
return to its quota of 3 million barrels or less, the situation, will
deteriorate. Here I would like?to reveal an important secret which is that
the.recent stage of the ongoing,Gulf war was in reply to this situation.
I warn the Gulf oil-producing countries that-this war will spread and
escalate; unless all parties reduce production to the allowable levels.
We in Libya, Algeria, and Iran cannot face the oil war against us with
silence. Therefore, the Gulf war will escalate through new outbreaks
unless prices and quotas are honored.
I had predicted this to the Italian newspaper, STAMPA, but they neglected
,to publish it. Before Iran crossed the Shatt al-'Arab, I said that if
prices were not adjusted and excessive production was not halted, a
serious escalation in the Gulf war would take place in a few days.
Today I predict through AL-KIFAH AL-'ARABI that the war will escalate and
spread to include all oil-producing countries in the area if-the Gulf oil-
producing countries do not stop the price and production war, because this
war against us is very dangerous. They are waging a.war against our live-
lihood, the health of our elderly, and the education of our children.
This we will not allow.
American Looking. for Bases in Chad
[Question] Once again, Chad has returned to the limelight. What is your
position following France's compliance with Hissein; Habre's request for
French troops in Chad?
[Answer] I concluded a friendly agreement with Mitterand in Crete based on
the following points:
1. Libya,and France would abstain from sending military troops to Chad,
regardless of the developments. .
We expected Goukouni and Habre to keep up their struggle because struggle
in Chad is tribal, sectarian,,and racial, and regardless of the duration and
intensity of the conflict, Libya and France must abstain from sending. in
their troops.
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2. Should French or_any other foreign troops enter Chad, Libya would have
the right to return its troops to Chad.
3. France and Libya would make every effort to 'find a peaceful solution to
the Chadian problem and to push the warring parties to negotiations.
Since that time, we have made exhaustive efforts to solve the Chadian
problem by peaceful means and by urging the parties to, negotiate. We.have
succeeded in convincing some of our friends to negotiate with Habre, such
as General Jibril Juko and others. They have,,in fact, negotiated with
Hissein Habre, but we were surprised by the sudden outbreak of fighting
since we in Libya were preoccupied with the sea and our confrontation with'
America. '
We learned later that Coukouni had uncovered an imperialist ploy to
establishHabre firmly in Chad and a plan to build American bases in the
heart of Chad.
The United States has informed France of its desire to set up military
bases in Chad in view of the fact that France has bases in the Cameroon
and Central Africa, around Chad, in addition to its bases in Gabon and the
Ivory Coast, and therefore does not need bases in Chad. Its troops in its
African bases are capable of operating inside Chad at any time.
The fact is that the United States is now building a base in Niger and is
getting ready to build another one in Chad. When Goukouni discovered that
his country was going to be sold and that Line 16 was a permanent line
dividing Chad into two countries, and at a time of tense relations between
us, he undertook to attack at his own risk.
The attack was launched at a time Goukouni considered to be ideal for him
following his success in unifying the political front after exhaustive
meetings held in Benin, Brazzaville, Algeria, and finally Barday. The
unification of the political front led to the formation of'a new government
and the organization of forces to an extent that prompted Boukouni to
believe that continuation of political inaction meant surrender to Habre
and subjugation to America and France. Such was his conviction which.he
based on documents and information he had obtained from Ndjamena, so he
relied on himself and waged his attack of which we became aware after it
had happened.
This is what prompted us not to support him in any way in this war.. We
called upon all sides to return to peaceful negotiations, but .France at
this point surprised us with an air attack on the Doum Airport, which is
far from any military positions and has nothing to do with the war effort.
The Doum Airport is the only'civilian airport in northern Chad used to'
receive medicine'and food.' It is common knowledge that most of the aircraft
that use this airport belong to the Red Crescent and the Red Cross and that
it has a large number of civilians and engineers who came under a treacherous
French attack.
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Worse yet, this attack was said to have been ordered by Mitterand himself.
I am surprised that Mitterand would issue an order to hit a civilian airport
used by the Red Crescent and the Red Cross to receive food supplies for
famine victims in northern Chad.
I did, in fact, try to find an excuse for the French president, saying that
perhaps he was the victim of misinformation about the purpose of this. airport
and perhaps he had regretted his'action after receiving confirmed reports
that the airport was a civilian one. He was misled once again when he was
informed that the airport had been totally destroyed, while in fact it had
not, and the raid was a failure, as evidenced by the fact that Red Crescent
planes have not stopped using it, even though some Red Crescent personnel
are'hesitant to use it for fear that France may commit the same hideous
mistake.
Moreover, everyone knows that Goiikouni a short time ago received fighters
and held a graduation ceremony for his pilots. Here they are, today at
dawn, retaliating against the French raid with a successful raid on the
Ndjamena Airport because the Doum Airport is this airport's counterpart.
There is a government in the north and a government in the south, and so
long as France has given itself the right to try to destroy the Doum Airport,
Goukouni has the right to destroy the Ndjamena Airport.
We Will Go On Working for Unity
[Question] We come'to your eternal concern, unity. A few days ago, talks
about unity were held with Algeria, and there have been news reports about
successful discussions with Damascus. What is new on this front?
[Answer] I expect the Algerian talks to culminate in a declaration of
unity in the next few months. .
[Question] Do you not think that unity with Algeria will reflect on your
unity with Morocco?'
[Answer] On the contrary, the two unions complement each other; and I
perceive in them a.confederation among.Arab Maghreb' countries.
[Question] But don't you think that unity with Algeria will lead to some
kind of contradiction with Morocco?
[Answer] No, this will never happen. The Arab-African Federation with
Morocco has achieved significant successes and has the strength to go on.,
The Oujda Agreement' allows Morocco and Libya to unite with other countries.
Our unity with Algeria,*besides our unity.with Morocco, will be, as I have
already mentioned, a step toward .a confederate union among the Arab
Maghreb countries. We hope through the two unions to arrive at a solution
to.the Saharan problem so that we may-,direct all our weapons at the
Zionist enemy.
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[Question] What about the Syrian side of the union?
[Answer] The Union of Arab Republics, which includes Libya, Syria, and
Egypt, will be modified to make it more effective. I expect to meet with
President Hafiz al-Asad soon here in Libya to announce a kind of advanced
unity within the framework of the Arab Republics Union.
[Question] Where will Egypt fit in this union?
[Answer] Constitutionally, we consider Egypt to be a member of this union,
and we will fulfill our obligations toward Egypt in accordance with the
Union's constitution which was approved by the Egyptian people through a
referendum.
[Question] What do you mean by fulfilling constitutional obligations
.toward Egypt?
[Answer] I repeat what I have just said, Egypt is a member of the Union of
Arab Republics, and the Union's constitution set forth certain obligations
towards Egypt which we will fulfill in accordance with constitutional
principles.
[End of interview]
I thanked the leader of the September Revolution for giving me the chance
to interview him and for singling out AL-KIFAH AL-'ARABI to divulge serious
information and significant points. I took leave of the man who is always
full of surprises because he always sticks to clarity and hangs on to the
dream.
12502/13046
CSO: 4504/235
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