AL-QADHDHAFI INTERVIEWED BY LEBANESE WEEKLY

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP05-01559R000400410011-8
• Release Decision: RIFPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 8
• Document Creation Date: December 22, 2016
• Document Release Date: January 30, 2012
• Sequence Number: 11
• Publication Date: January 20, 1986
• Content Type: OPEN SOURCE

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NORTH AFRICA Q I
Foreign Ministry Statement Laments PDRY Conflict
LD231250 Algiers Domestic Service in Arabic
1200 GMT 23 Jan 86
[Text] Concerning the events in PDRY, the official spokesman
of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs made a statement which said
in particular that Algeria is following up with great concern the
tragic events in PDRY, which are leading to huge human losses,
in addition to inflicting considerable damage to the achievements
of the South Yemeni people and through them to the
achievements of the entire Arab nation.
The Foreign Ministry spokesman added that President Chadli
Bendjedid has continuously followed up these tragic events
through telephone calls which he had with PDRY officials, and
through various other contacts. He pointed out that these con-
flicts between the brothers distract the energies of the fraternal
Yemeni people from their mission of building their country, and
they also harm the national unity which was deepened during the
war of independence and development.
The drama faced by the PDRY worsens the heavy dissensions
which affect the Arab world in such a dangerous manner at a
time when the need for trhe unity among the ranks and-of action
to answer the challenge assumes a common destiny. Algeria is
all the more affected by this tragedy of division because it has
always found in the PDRY a comrade-in-arms concerned above
all things with ensuring a rally of Arab potential and putting it
into the service of our sacred causes. It is precisely in the name
of this sacred cause, the spokesman concludes, that Algeria calls
for the immediate cessation of the futile bloodshed and for the
restoration of internal peace in respect of the unity and sover-
eignty of the people of the PDRY, and this through the fraternal
dialogue within the framework of the legitimate national institu-
tions of the country.
LIBYA
QADHAFI
Al-Qadhdhafi Interviewed by Lebanese Weekly
PM231 110 Beirut AL-NAHAR AL- ARAB! WA AL-DUWAL!
in Arabic 20-26 Jan 86 pp 22-26
[Interview with Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi by Jubran Tuwayni,
'Abd al-Wahhab Badrakhan, Wadi 'al-Hilu, and Nabil Barakis-
in Tripoli; date not given]
[Text] Question: Do you believe that the measures which the
United States has taken against Libya are tantamount to a.
declaration of war on the Jamahiriyah, and if so do you consider
that Libya today is in a state of war with the United States?
Answer: They can be considered an economic war. They cannot
be regarded as war in the sense defined in international law,
which means the legitimacy of one party resorting to violence
against another. In other words, when the rule of law reigns, acts
of violence become legitimate and nobody can then protest
against violent actions directed against him. But what is happen
ing now is not the direction of violence by one party against
another but rather a war in a different field, the economic field.
Therefore; Reagan has declared a state of national emergency in
the United States and we know that such a state is declared when
U.S. foreign policy or national security is threatened. Reagan
declared that they are actually threatened by a Libyan danger
and that in view of this danger a state of national emergency is
being declared. Under these circumstances the U.S. President
has the right to take presidential decisions without referring to
Congress or anybody else. These decisions include imposing
sanctions against Libya, blockading it economically, and banning
dealings with it. This is the present state of affairs -- an economic
war.
Question: Does Libya consider itself to be in a state of war with
the United States?
Answer: Yes, war in the same sense, that is, economic war. But
we do not consider that Libya alone is in a state of economic war
with the United States but also the Arab nation because the
United States did what it did against Libya because of Libya's
Arab and national stand. There is no bilateral problem between
us and the United States; rather it is the United States that is
trying to punish us because of our pan-Arab stand. It wants us
to put aside the Palestinian problem and the liberation of Pales-
tine and to abandon the cause of Arab nationalism, Arab unity,
and liberation of the Arab nation. It does not want anybody to
say anything about these problems because the United States has
it in mind to contain the Arab homeland and divide it into zones
of influence as a basis for it to use in its strategic conflict with
the Soviet Union. For this reason it has decided that Libya is the
number one danger, after which comes the Soviet Union. When
Reagan was asked how it is that he considers Libya, a small
country, to be the number one danger, he said it isbecause the
United States is not expecting to occupy the Soviet Union but it
is expecting and indeed it is a certainty that it will occupy the
Arab homeland. In order for the United States to reach the Soviet
Union there are strategic places in the world which must first be
occupied and have bases setup in them. When you are proceeding
toward a major target and you find a small resistance in the way
to reaching it, the priorities change in order to take care of this
little resistance. Therefore, Libya is a priority to be dealt with on
the grounds that it is the number one enemy which, when
overwhelmed, will enable the march toward the big target --
besieging the Soviet Union -- to continue. For this reason our
struggle is in fact equal to that of the socialist camp, because
while we are defending our country we are at the same time
hindering the advance of the enemy, an enemy that is advancing
toward the socialist camp. When the socialist camp defeats or
weakens imperialism this will have a positive effect on us because
it weakens an enemy against whom we too stand because it is
occupying' our lands. Therefore, Libya's national stand has
prompted the United States to adopt this hostile attitude toward
it. Even if the problem was Libyan-American the Arab nation
cannot possibly abandon one of its peoples, a small people that is
being confronted with a major imperialist onslaught, even if it
goes to help it out of chivalry. We are one nation and one family
because what is happening to Libya today could happen to any
Arab country tomorrow. The U.S. plan is aimed at enabling the
Israelis to occupy or smash every Arab country individually so
that eventually the whole Arab nation will be smashed militarily.
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W W
V. 24 Jan 86
Then economic sanctions will be imposed and U.S. pressure,
threats, and sieges will be applied against the Arab countries one
by one until eventually we will rind that the whole Arab nation
is finished. The principle of self-defense should impel the Arab
nation to stand against this onslaught.
Question: Do you not think that the U.S. onslaught against Libya
is due to Libya being a Soviet position?
Answer: (laughing) No, if this was the case:..
Question: They would have attacked you...
Answer: (still laughing) You said it.
Question: What effect have Reagan's economic measures had on
the Libyan economy?
Answer: In fact they have not had a great effect, but they will
certainly have an effect. Maybe they will have implications in the
future. For this reason Libya is now in need of the Arab nation
economically in order to confront the United States with the
same weapon so that it will go back on its'stand and compensate
Libya for any losses it may suffer as a result of the U.S. measures.
Question: The United States has ordered its citizens to leave
Libya. Will Libya take measures that would affect these citi-
zens?
Answer: I do not think that the Americans will comply with
Reagan's order. This is not the first time that he has issued such
an order to them. They will blow Reagan a raspberry. This is
because they live in an atmosphere that is different from that in
which Reagan lives. Perhaps he imagines that the situation and
life in Libya are as portrayed to him by Zionist propaganda. The
Americans live here and know that Libya is the country of
security, freedom, and popular democracy. But they are free. If
they want to go we will not be affected and if they wish to stay
they are welcome.
Question: Were there any contacts between Libya and the United
States after the Rome and Vienna operations and before Reagan
declared his measures?
Answer: No, no. The United States is refusing any contact and
any understanding.
Question: When the United States adopts stands against Libya
how does it convey this to you and which party carries U.S.
messages to Libya and Libya's messages to the United States?
Answer: U.S. policy, particularly under Reagan, is infantile and
rash. It is not in the least reasonable because as an actor Reagan
deals with world politics in an actor's manner; he views the
international theater in the same way he views a stage. In acting
you can do anything on the stage but in the final analysis it is
only acting: But when you apply this to the real international
theater it ceases to be acting. He is now moving naval units and
aircraft carriers as if he were on stage, as if explosions could occur
without causing harm, while on the actual stage they could cause
a disaster. Reagan has this problem because acting is guiding his
policy. His policy is therefore unrealistic and illogical. During a
crisis like this -- particularly in view of the fact that the United
States is a superpower -- consultations should have been held with
Libya and investigation of these events should have been carried
out. When a state is disturbed by a particular incident it can
investigate it and can approach Libya and then wait for Libya's
answer through a third party or directly. But Reagan did not go
through this process. Any war that takes place is preceded by a
warning. It is`stipulated in international law that no war can take
place without ?a warning. In the case in which we are concerned
there should have been a series of negotiations and give and take
until one of us decided what he deemed fit as a result of the
negotiations. Reagan did not go through these stages. Suddenly
he threatened us with fleets and concentrated 41 ships against
us. A few days ago we were in a state of war and at dawn we were
informed that scores of U.S. ships, inch ng aircraft carriers,
were in the Mediterranean heading south toward Libya. Had
they continued their advance war would have broken out. For this
reason we mobilized the Air Force, the Navy, and the air defense
and all the commanders went into the operations room. We were
waiting for the ships to cross the 32.5 degree line of latitude that
marks the beginning of the Gulf of Sidra. This was the red line
which, if they had crossed it, would have begun the clash between
us and them. But before midday the danger vanished and the
ships dispersed and retreated. They did not come close to this line.
Question: What in your opinion was the cause of this retreat?
Answer: First, any adventure in the Mediterranean would be a
serious adventure because Libya can, even with one blo""", inflict
a real defeat on the U.S. 6th Fleet. Also we can inf"- amage
on U.S. bases which are within our reach ? 'ie Me. urranean.
After that it [the United States] could c anything; it would
definitely occupy Libya. But there is no doubt that Libya could,
before the whole world, destroy a considerable part of the U.S.
power in the Mediterranean. The United States is avoiding this
and is being very careful. When we realize that we are going to
be finished we will act crazily and we will sink their units: Let it
be on me and on my enemies, Oh God! We can sink one aircraft
carrier or two, even if we have to send 50 or 100 aircraft against
each. Libya has about 1,000 planes of various types and they are
wary of this. Certainly the United States has thousands of
aircraft and its own strategy, but a country like Libya can do
something very effective in the Mediterranean with a thousand
planes. We have threatened that we will turn ourselves into
suicide squads, both us and our friends. We will plant these
squads in Europe and America and everywhere. If war breaks
out then we shall' fight in any place and setoff explosions. They
are wary of this, too. On the other hand we cannot deny the effect
of the Soviet attitude when matters reach a very dangerous point.
The United-States'is'a superpower and so is not allowed to act
unilaterally in this world.'When small countries fight, the area
of the conflict remains limited, but when one of the superpowers
becomes involved in the'ganie'it creates the opportunity for the
other superpower to intervene. I would tell the Americans: You
must reckon that there is a 50 percent chance that the operation
would be a very serious adventure and that Libya could do
something very effective in -the Mediterranean. The other 50
percent may be attributed?to the international attitude, particu-
larly the Soviet Union and the socialist camp as well as European
pressure. [as published]. This action threatens tourism, trade, and
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communications because there are in the. Mediterranean gas
pipelines extending between North Africa and Europe and tele-
phone, broadcasting, and telecommunications lines and potential
oil pipelines and other projects. All this would be destroyed.
Question: It is observed that on the Arab and international levels
Libya is stronger than before. This is evident in Arab solidarity
with it and in ,the Soviet support for the Libyan stand. Do you
believe that the Arab'and Soviet support Libya" has received
counterbalances the U.S. threats?
Answer: With regard to the Arabs we can say nothing about them
as we are now waiting for the Arab League meeting on 22
January. Then we can say if the Arab response is equal to the
U.S. threat or not. With regard to the Soviet Union we are
grateful for its stand and consider it to be an excellent stand.
Question: In this economic war Libya is expected to respond by
threatening U.S. economic interests in the Arab world, Europe,
or anywhere in the world. Will Libya's action be confined to
isolating the U.S. community and the U.S. companies or will it
be a party to this [worldwide] war?
Answer: Of course Libya will reciprocate the U.S. action; it will
do everything to respond to it and to obtain compensation for
ourselves for any damage we might suffer as a result of the U.S.
attitude. But Libya does not wish to act single-handedly because
the response should be Arab since the root cause is Arab. The
United States did not behave the way it did because of a Libyan
problem but because of a pan-Arab problem which Libya sym-
bolizes. The U.S. punishment is being directed against all the
Arab nation. If there is a blow to be dealt then it is aimed at the
Arab nation. For this reason we do not wish to preempt 22
January and we will wait to see what the Arab nation will decide.
Question: What in your opinion is the real U.S. objective behind
this campaign, especially since it was rumored earlier that U.S.-
Libyan relations were experiencing a certain improvement? It
then appeared as if the Rome and Vienna operation had adversely
affected this course.
Answer: What is happening now is 'not out of line with the
prevalent trend, namely confrontation between imperialism and
the Arab nation. The U.S. aim is to swallow up the area and then
hand it over to the Israelis so'that eventually it will incorporate
it in its international strategy. There is a kind of vacuum in the
Arab area, Africa, Latin America, and some parts of Asia. Power
is precipitating toward the weaker point in the line of resistance.,
The conflicting powers now tend toward the weaker resistance
spot. The United States is looking for bases and places where its
fleets can go and for strategic locations from Bab el Mandeb, to
Gibraltar, to the Suez Canal, and to the Mediterranean and its
southern shores.
Obviously the United States is seeking to weaken the Arabs. The
Israelis are exploiting this so that Zionism will eventually domi-
nate the Arab nation and we will become like the Palestinians in
Palestine under the British mandate between 1920 and 1936.
America is creating a new British mandate. Let us imagine that
all the Arab nation becomes Palestine under a British mandate.
They will then hand it over to the Zionists, and the Arabs, like
the Palestinians, will become refugees in camps. The same thing
will be repeated. The United States is doing everything and is
using an iron fist in order to impose a mandate on the Arab
homeland. Under this mandate the Arab homeland will be
handed over to Zionism, in which case we the Arabs will find that
the, whole Arab homeland has become like Palestine. In this
regard Libya, stands as a resistance point warning against this
danger. Even these words I am saying are a danger to the United
States because it does not want, the Arabs to hear them or draw
attention to them. In its view anyone who draws attention to this
danger must be silenced. Therefore, the United States wants to
silence this voice, this resistance, and this new instigator who is
mobilizing the masses, unleashing the masses, and is in control
of.the state of the masses. It wants the Arab world to be governed
by 20 rulers so that it will get together with them individually
and every one of them will sign and sign, each one of them giving
it a base, a zone of influence, and so on. If there were 50 million
Arabs and each one of them had power, wealth, and arms the
United States would be unable to contain them. For this reason
Libya represents a dangerous phenomenon. The masses must
win;'the masses,are in the battle; no longer can anyone alone sign
on behalf of the millions and ignore the will of the masses. If the
Libyan call spreads and the masses in the Arab homeland rise,
the United States will have no hope of swallowing up the state of
the masses because then it will not' find a ruler ready to sign.
Before this flood strikes, the United States wants to eliminate its
source..
Question: Do you expect the economic war to be a holding action
pending military action or do you believe that the danger of
military action has receded?
Answer: The United States has threatened to take military
action. All this is in preparation for military action.
Question: Therefore, a U.S. military strike is expected.
Answer: The strike could take 'place at any moment but it is
dependent upon calculations and upon the impact of the strike
on the United States as well as its effect on Libya itself. For it
might turn Libya into something totally different and probably
have an effect similar to that of the tripartite aggression against
`Abd al-Nasir.
Question: If there is going to be a U.S. military action where do
you expect it to be?
Answer: One of the major problems for the United States is
where to strike. There is nothing specific as a target. First there
is no regime to overthrow because overthrowing the regime in
Libya means overthrowing the people's congresses and the peo-
ple's committees; these are the Libyan people. In my view Leba-
non's experience was very useful. Lebanon at present is a state of
the masses; a natural jamahiriyah. The government and the
Army are weak and so the people act together. Therefore,
someone like Sana' Muhaydali could turn herself into a booby
trap without taking orders from a military commander, a civilian,
or the border police. She commits suicide and by so doing kills
the enemies. Such initiatives taken by ordinary people in Leba-
non were spontaneous. Nobody gave them orders or told them
what to do. This is the dangerous thing. One fellow strapped
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explosives to his body and killed 300 U.S. soldiers. Who gave this
man is orders and who is his boss? He did not ask anyone's
permission. He was an ordinary citizen who wanted to express
himself and so he mined himself with explosives and went to the
enemies. The New Jersey bombarded but it achieved nothing; it
retreated and fled from Lebanon vanquished. In Libya the
United States will find problems. This is a state of the masses
with thousands of people's congresses and people's committees.
Each personconsiders himself a Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi.
Therefore there is not only one Al-Qadhdhafi. So there is no
known target. There is no party to be overthrown so that it can
be replaced by another party. You canot overthrow all the Libyan
people. Overthrowing the Libyan people means eliminating all
Libya. So let the United States come with its nuclear bombs and
drop them on Libya; perhaps this will be the solution for it.
Question: In your view, what U.S. action would'turn the state of
economic war into a state of military war?
Answer: Logically, in fact, there is no legal justification for a
military war but there is a U.S. intention to destroy the Arab
nation. The U.S. policy is a rash unreasonable policy. That is why
war could break out at any time. All the United States has to do
is look for any pretext to launch a war. We can no longer look for
what is legally reasonable in this confrontation.
Question: What U.S. action would, in your opinion, shift the
conflict from the economic to the military arena?
Answer: We cannot guess.
Question: What if a U.S. aircraft entered Libya's airspace?
Answer: It would be brought down, of course.
Question: Would that be considered a passing incident or would
it be considered the beginning of a confrontation?
Answer: We will strike anyone who violates our waters or space.
What happens after that would depend on the other side. Would
that side decide that it was wrong to enter a prohibited area and
that the penalty was that it was hit and would therefore retreat,
or would it use the incident as a justification for launching war?
We are ready for all eventualities.
Answer: Surely there is no comparison between Libya, a small
state, and the United States, which consists of 50 states combined
in one; but that does not mean that we should surrender. If we
must die we will die standing on our feet.
Answer: If a war broke out we would expect the Arab military
and the Arab youth to join Libya in the war, otherwise the
regimes which oppose such participation in the war would fall,
which would change the map. Some armies would decide to join,
but if their rulers prevented them from doing that they would
rebel.
Question: When you say that some armies would act, do you base
that on contacts with these armies or on definite information
about their willingness?
Answer: We rely on both. We rely on the pan-Arab stance. That
would,be the expected and certain outcome.
Question : Do youave.faith in.th'e pan-Arab position?
Answer: Yes, I do. Furthermore, there is no lack of contact. Over
16 years in the life of the revolution we, have,built strong open
and'secret relations in the Arab homeland.
Question: In your contacts with the Arab leaders what did you
ask of them for meeting the',U.S. challenge? Has Libya, for
example, called for an Arab summit conference and does it intend
to complain to the United Nations?
Answer: No, we have not submitted a complaint to the United
Nations but we have informed it of what is going on so that the
aggressor will be held responsible. We have not called for an Arab
summit conference.
Answer: The foreign ministers conference will be sufficient. They
will come with instructions from their governments.
Question: Will you not try: the Security, Council or do you not
believe in the Security Council and the United Nations?
Answer: Without doubt the Security Council and the United
Nations have a role to play, but because of the right of veto we
do not depend on them. So long as anyone can use that right and
cancel the will of all the United Nations we cannot rely on the
United Nations. We call on the small nations to form a new
united nations where there would be complete equality or where
all the member states"would have a right of veto or where the
general assembly would have a right to object to such a veto. An
amendment of this kind should be introduced; otherwise we
would never depend on the United Nations.
Question: You have talked frequently about Mediterranean secu-
rity and you have threatened to overturn the balance of power in
the region if the United States waged war against Libya. What
would be the nature of this overturning of the balance of power
that you speak of?
Answer: Naturally the alliances in the region, would change and
we would' reconsider our relations with all the international blocs
-- the Nonaligned Movement, the Soviet Union and the socialist
bloc, and Europe. .
Question: Would there be a Libyan-Soviet alliance, for example?
Answer: That cannot be ruled out. Developments carry with
them such possibilities. In the final analysis we are defending our
existence.
Question: Did you.raise'this matter during your recent visit to
the Soviet Union? '
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Answer: We certainly did discuss all these matters but we
decided to leave them until their time comes.
Question: During the recent tension on the Egyptian-Libyan
borders Syria declared support for Libya and that the Union of
Arab Republics was still valid. Now, in connection with the
U.S.-Libyan tension, what role could Morocco, to which you are
joined by the Oujda treaty, play? Would it intercede to regulate
U.S.-Libyan relations or would it slide militarily with Libya
against the United States?
Answer: According to the Oujda treaty, from which the Arab-
African Union of Libya and Morocco stemmed, any aggression
against Libya is an aggression against Morocco and any aggres-
sion against Morocco is an aggression against Libya.
Answer: No war has broken out for us to determine whether or
not Morocco would implement the treaty.
Question: You have expressed a desire to end the Iraq-Iran war.
Does this mean a change in Libya's attitude toward Iran, and are
you thinking of embarking on a new initiative to end that war?
Answer: No, our attitude toward the Iranian revolution has not
changed, and that is not because it is an Iranian revolution. We
generally do not betray revolutions and we do not betray the
revolutionary people. I personally instigated revolution against
the Shah and a revolution did take place and my call was fulfilled.
Those who carried out the revolution were people who had been
in detention camps. They had heard my speeches and the instruc-
tions in them which had a major effect on the revolution. It is not
right for us now to betray the revolution. Our attitude toward
Iran does not change at all but I have asked permission to play a
part in ending the war so that all the guns could be aimed at the
real enemy and the real danger threatening the Arabs and
Muslims.
Question: What is the role of the Libyan-Syrian-Iranian alliance
in the current crisis with the United States?
Answer: It is very important. It is the most effective alliance both
psychologically and materially. If we were to make any material
request for anything from Syria or Iran, it would be granted.
Question: What is the nature of the initiative you intend to make
to end the Iraq-Iran war?
Answer: I have sent a message to the Iranian leaders on this
matter and we are awaiting the reply.
Question: There has been much talk about holding an interna-
tional conference to settle the Arab-Israeli conflict. What in your
view should be the basis of a settlement in the Middle East?
Elimination of Israel, restoration of the Arab territories, or...?
Answer: Even if the Palestinians and the Israelis recognized one
another and even if they reached understanding we would still
not feel assured when it comes to the existence of so-called Israel
because it would then turn its sights on the rest of the Arabs and
would threaten our existence. The existence of so-called Israel is
in conflict with the Arab nation's existence. It is not simply a
Palestinian-Israeli conflict. Even if they recognized one another
and solved their problems it does not mean that the Arabs should
rest assured. On the contrary, they would have more to fear
because it would mean that the Palestinian trench has been
overcome and contained, enabling Israel to turn to what is beyond
Palestine.
Answer: Of course. This is an aggression which must end, but I
accept the Palestinian Jews. Israel consists of Europeans,
Americans, and Asians. Let them return to Ethiopia. [as pub-
lished] Let the Libyan and Yemeni Jews return to their respective
countries. We do not accept them in Palestine. They must return
to their countries, and if they are persecuted there the pressure
must be on these countries. We are not against the Jews because
they are Jews wherever they may be. We are against those who
came to our land of Palestine and occupied it. We should not pay
the price for Hitler's crime or for the persecution of the Jews.
Question: You are renowned for your support for the world's
liberation movements, some of which are accused by the United
States of involvement in terrorist operations. Could you describe
to us the nature of your relations with the Palestinian organiza-
tions, and do you consider what some of these organizations do
to be acts of terrorism?
Answer: The Palestinian organizations are not terrorist organiza-
tions. If the Israelis strike at the Palestinians outside Palestine it
is the right of the Palestinians to hit the Israelis outside Palestine.
Why should the Israelis hit them in Tunisia and Lebanon, and
perhaps Yemen? Is it right for the Israelis but wrong for the
Palestinians? The Palestinians do not have aircraft to hit military
targets, and Palestine is surrounded and protected by the Arabs,
who guard Israel. The Palestinian expresses himself by hitting
the Israelis everywhere.
Question: Has Libya asked the Palestinian factions to suspend
external operations for some time?
Answer: The Palestinian organizations do not take their orders
from Libya. We only support them. What they do and how they
do it is their own business.
Question: How do you view what is taking place in Egypt and the
appearance of certain phenomena such as the Sulayman Khatir
phenomenon? Also, you persistently urge Egypt to abrogate the
Camp David agreement. How do you suggest it do that?
Answer: The reasons which led Egypt to become a party to the
David stable (Camp David) should be eliminated. The Arab
nation should give Egypt whatever it can to enable Egypt to leave
it. I do not believe that Egypt is satisfied with its present situation.
It is trapped. Husni Mubarak is not Al-Sadat but we believe he
is trapped and cannot break loose. The Arab nation should help
rescue him, but Egypt does not have a mercenary desire for us to
give it something in return for getting out of its present situation.
This is Egypt's cause, and the major effort should come from it
with our help. It is not in Egypt's interest to be involved with the
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Americans and the Israelis. It is finished and is no longer an
independent state. It is independent in name only. The United
States controls it economically and militarily and the Israelis
have ruined it and have planted themselves everywhere. Do you
recall what the holy book said about the exodus? What is
happening now is a return of the Israelis to Egypt, to the
pre-Moses situation until there is another exodus at the hands of
another pharaoh. They left Egypt in the days of Moses and now
they have returned to it. Begin even said that the pyramids were
built by the Israelis. In his cable to Carter after the David stable
signing he said: "You have made efforts equal to the efforts of
our forefathers in building the pyramids."
Question: The national resistance in the south [of Lebanon] and
the Amal movement are carrying out heroic operations against
Israel. What is your attitude toward these operations?
Answer: We support them and could participate in them. This is
a liberation battle and it is our pan-Arab duty to support it.
Question: Do you support the tripartite agreement signed in
Damascus recently?
Question: If Syria took the step of annexing Lebanon would you
also support it?
Answer: We support that in principle but we underscore the
freedom of the Lebanese people, the Lebanese masses, and the
position of the masses there.
Answer: We even'support the principle, that is, the principle of
annexing Lebanon to Syria and the principle of unity of the two
countries. At the same time we care about the freedom and the
atmosphere of the masses in Lebanon, which should not be
quelled by the annexation.
Question: What is the state of your relations with the Lebanese
legitimate authorities?
Answer: They are good. I have spoken with President Al-
Jumayyil on the telephone. His position is excellent. He is very
nice.
Question: Are you optimistic about Lebanon's future?
Question: In the past Libya considered Israeli threats to Lebanon
as threats to Libya. Will Libya, which is under threat now, ask
anything of Lebanon or the Lebanese masses?
Answer: If a war broke out with the United States or the Israelis
we would ask the Lebanese masses to do everything they can.
Their bravery is now well known. Like the Vietnamese, they now
frighten the United States.
Interviewed by KURIER
AU230940 Vienna KURIER in German 23 Jan 86 p 5
["Second part" of "exclusive" interview given by revolution
leader Al-Qadhdhafl to KURIER reporter Heinz Nussbaumer
in a tent "south of Tripoli...... last weekend"]
[Tezt] [Nussbaumer] Colonel,.; once,. more clearly and
unequivocally, is there any connection between Libya and the
events of Vienna and Rome?
[Al-Qadhdhafl] Clearly and unequivocally, Libya has absolutely
nothing whatever to do with these events.
[Nussbaumer] But the Americans have just claimed that they
now possessed, concrete indications....
[Al-Qadhdhafi] They should put them on the table at last, and
give us the lie -- for all the world to see. But the truth is, this kind
of propaganda is psycho terror. I have a clear conscience, and I
go still further: Libya, nor any Arab country, nor Iran, have
anything to do with it.
[Nussbaumer] Let us stay for a moment with the subject of Abu
.Nidal: Is he still alive at all, or is,he,dead, as many say?
[AI-Qadhdhafl] He is alive, believe me. That is certain. (laughs
heartily)
[Nussbaumer] And his people -= are they actually being trained
in Libya?
[Al-Qadhdhafl] To clear this up, once and for all, the camps that
existed in Libya were 'Arafat's camps. When we broke off
relations with him, he closed down the camps and left Libya.
[Nussbaumer] You mean the camps are now completely empty
-- no one is there any more?
[Al-Qadhdhafl] Yes, they are completely empty.
[Nussbaumer] You mean to say. that not a single Palestinian is
here any more?.
[Al-Qadhdhafl] The only ones that are still here are civilians: --
teachers, students, peasants, and workers.
[Nussbaumer] And not a single armed fighter?
[Al-Qadhdhafi] There is no need for any training in Libya. There
is no Palestinian camp in this country.
[Nussbaumer]'In view of your great interest in the Palestinians'
fate, what is your proposal for resolving the Middle East conflict?
[Al-Qadhdhafi] There is no solution. The only solution would be
to have all Jews who were not born in Palestine return to where
they came from. Then the Palestinians could return to the cities
and villages which they were driven out of. This solution will
certainly not be accepted by either the Americans or the Israelis.
Therefore, there is no other choice for the Palestinians than to
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[Nussbaumer] Colonel, you mentioned `Arafat a little while ago:
If an Arab summit were to materialize after all in the near future,
are you ready to sit down at the conference table with all those
Arab statesmen with whom you have an open quarrel -- even with
`Arafat?
[Nussbaumer] Do you mean "liquidated?"
[Al-Qadhdhafi] I mean his era must come to an end; I don't mean
"liquidate."
[Nussbaumer] In other words, for you Reagan constitutes the
actual problem, not the Americans?
[Al-Qadhdhafi] If there is an Arab summit and I decide to
participate, then this would also mean that I am ready to meet
with all the people who are there.
[Nussbaumer] And are you actually ready to appear there?
[Al-Qadhdhafi] Who knows, perhaps....
[Nussbaumer] Do you actually fear that one of your numerous
enemies in the region might organize in the near future an act of
so- called "Abu Nidal terrorism" in the West so as to provoke
the United States to deal a blow to Libya?
[Al-Qadhdhafi] First of all, in principle, if anyone carried out an
operation under the name of Abu Nidal, then this would certainly
not be an adequate reason for attacking Libya of all countries.
Naturally it is possible that someone is planning a thing like that,
so as to pin the blame on us. But this should show how far we
have digressed into the irrational: If a war in the Mediterranean
region were to depend on such a conspiracy....
[Nussbaumer] Now a question that is perhaps somewhat bold:
At times I cannot help wondering whether you personally regret
a confrontation such as that with the United States, or whether
you do not perhaps also enjoy it a little, because it seems to
confirmthat your role is greater than Libya's geographic impor-
tance.
[Al-Qadhdhafi) We have certainly not sought the problems; they
have come to us -- certainly not for the first time...
[Nussbaumer] But now you are obviously using the opportunity
to pass on your message to the largest possible audience.
[A]-Qadhdhafi] It is a fact that a crisis induces more people than
normal to listen. And should there be an aggression against us,
we will not only repel it with every firmness, but we will then also
automatically get even more attention than now.
[Nussbaumer] There is a terrible war of words under way
between you and President Reagan. One is calling the other a
"barbarian," a "second Hitler," a "stinking, rotten crusader,"
and an "aging third-class actor." Could you not tone it down a
bit?
[AI-Qadhdhafi] But this (laughs at length) is political rhetoric.
Seriously, I stick to my opinion: Reagan is a "second hitler." He
wants to colonize the world by force -- on the same pretext that
Hitler used for occupying the Sudetenland: That he had to
protect the people in this region. It is very important that you give
this some thought. Hitler was finished, though, as soon as the
other countries allied themselves against him with the Soviet
Union. And Ronald Reagan must be finished in the same way....
[AI-Qadhdhafi] The main problem is imperialism. But Ronald
Reagan has undoubtedly driven imperialism to the most danger-
ous level.
[Nussbaumer] Excuse my saying so, Colonel, but in the past few
years I sometimes could not help feeling that you are actually
cultivating something that one might call a hidden love-hate
relationship with the United States....
[Al-Qadhdhafi] Very well, I am going to tell you now how things
stand: I like the Americans, as individuals and also as a nation.
But I hate that country as an imperialist center. And I hate their
foreign policy, especially under Ronald Reagan.
[Nussbaumer] Then this leaves only the question: Would you, if
worse came to worst, meet with this Ronald Reagan personally?
[Al-Qadhdhafi] In principle I do not refuse such a meeting. I'll
go a step further: Rather than having the world slide into a
catastrophe, such a meeting would be a downright necessity for
me. The problem is that to negotiate with Hitler was pointless --
can one negotiate with the "second Hitler"?
AI-Qadhdhafi Receives PFLP Official for Talks
LD232106 Tripoli JANA in English 1850 GMT 23 Jan 86
[Text] Tripoli, Jumada Awal 11, Jan. 23, JAMAHIRIYAH
NEWS AGENCY -- The leader this morning received Taysir
Qubba'h, the Central Committee member of the Popular Front
for the Liberation of Palestine. He renewed the standing of the
Front by the side of the Libyan people in its brave confrontation
with U.S. threats and economic measures.
Taysir Qubba'h confirmed the high regard the Palestinian people
and its fighting cadres have for the pioneering nationalistic
steady stance of the Libyan Arab people and its great revolution
towards the Palestinian cause. "This honourable stance was the
real reason for all the terrorist practices and successive conspir-
acies the world imperialism plotted against Jamahiriyah and its
Arab revolutionary people".
JANA: Al-Qadhdhafi Visits Natural Gas Field
LD202019 Tripoli JANA in Arabic 1830 GMT 20 Jan 86
[Text] Tripoli 20 Jan (JANA) - The brother leader of the
revolution yesterday paid an inspection visit to the gas field
"Attahaddi" [challenge] recently discovered by the Sidra Oil
Company. The brother leader inspected the excavation work
underway to develop this field at AI-`Aridh, which is thought to
be the biggest natural gas field discovered so far in the Jamahir-
iyah.
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The estimated reserves of the field are in the range of 50 trillion
cubic meters of gas. The field will make it possible to supply the
needs of all the gigantic projects based on natural gas, including
the ammonia, methanol, and urea petrochemical plants and the
liquid gas plant.
This field will also supply power plants in Sidra, Ras Lanuf,
Zlitin, and Al-Khums with their natural gas needs by a pipeline
extending from Al-Briga to Al-Khums.
Concerning the financial and investment fields, JANA has
learned that the emergency meeting of the Arab foreign min-
isters will look into liquidating existing investments and
refraining from any future investments in the United States, in
addition to boycotting U.S. banks, withdrawing Arab deposits
from them and imposing new conditions for redepositing them in
U.S. banks. This is in addition to boycotting U.S. financial
institutions and banks which apply the U.S. measures against
Libya.
AI-Qadhdhafi Sends Message to Italy's Craxi
LD231142 Kuwait KUNA in English 1006 GMT 23 Jan 86
[Text] Rome, Jan 23 (KUNA) - The Libyan leader, Colonel
Mu'ammar Al-Qadhdhafi, has informed the Italian Government
of his readiness to "form an alliance with the Mediterranean
countries to stop any support for terrorism in the region", official
sources said here Thursday.
Sources of the Italian Government said Al-Qadhdhafi's message
was conveyed by the Maltese premier.
They added that the Libyan leader expressed his country's desire
to have good relations with Italy and affirmed that Libya does
not support terrorism.
Al-Qadhdhafi also requested the Mediterranean countries not to
allow the use of their military bases against neighboring states,
the sources said.
The same sources, who are close to the Italian Premier Bettino
Craxi, said Craxi has expressed satisfaction over the contents of
Al-Qadhdhafi's oral message, particularly his anti-terrorism
stance.
Craxi affirmed to the Maltese premier that the Italian Govern-
ment is currently studying the possibility of holding a meeting
between the Mediterranean countries to discuss the current
tension in the region, according to the sources.
Arab Foreign Ministers to Discuss Boycotting U.S.
LD241013 Tripoli JANA in Arabic 0717 GMT 24 Jan 86
[Text] Tripoli 24 Jan (JANA) - JANA has learned that the
emergency Arab foreign ministers meeting, which will be held at
the end of January to discuss the measures and stances that
should be adopted by the Arab countries in solidarity with Libya
in its fight against the U.S. economic threats and measures, will
include a number of subjects, among them a boycott of the
United States in the field of gas exports and petroleum deriva-
tives.
1
JANA has learned that this boycott will include the petroleum
companies that have responded to the U.S. boycott, and that the
Arab countries will work toward finding markets for Libyan
crude oil, even if this were to lead to them relinquishing some of
their oil customers and their markets; they might also increase
their oil production and market it on behalf of Libya.
The Arab countries will also give banking coverage [as heard] for
deposits of the Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriyah in
any other banks whenever this is necessary.
In their emergency meeting, the Arab countries will also discuss
the possibility of compensating the Jamahiriyah for the assets
frozen by the Reagan government in U.S. banks, and also of
granting Libya loans and banking facilities.
Concerning the import of goods and services, JANA has learned
that the emergency meeting of the Arab countries will discuss a
number of options, including boycotting U.S. goods and services,
stopping U.S. companies from participating in Arab projects, or
stopping any contracts with these companies in this respect,
especially companies adhering to the application of the measures
declared by the Reagan government. This is in addition to
boycotting the companies and individuals currently dealing with
Libya. The meeting will decide on responding to what Reagan
has announced.
The working paper which will be discussed by the Arab League
Council includes boycotting U.S. ships, aircraft and airports and
rejecting any agencies working on behalf of U.S. companies.
Unions Discuss U.S. Freight Loading Boycott
LD231528 Tripoli Domestic Service in Arabic
1330 GMT 23 Jan 86
[Text] The Executive Bureau of the Arab Transport Workers
Union held a meeting this morning in Tripoli. During the meeting
debates covered the U.S. imperialist and Zionist threats against
the Arab Libyan people.
Particpants stressed the need for a unified stand that must be
taken by all transport workers in the Arab country in order to
face up to all the U.S. measures and the economic blockade
announced by Reagan against the Arab nation, and to stand in
one rank against the U.S. practices that America wants to impose
on the Arab people.
Members of the Executive Bureau of the Arab Oil Workers
Union also discussed a number of means likely to put an end to
the U.S. practices against the Arab people, including the boy-
cotting of any loading and unloading of all U.S. freight in Arab
ports and airports, in solidarity with the Arab Libyan people in
their confrontation with the U.S. world Zionist conspiracies.
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