MEETING TRANSCRIPT DCI AND MANCHESTER

• Document Type: FOIA
• Collection: FOIA Collection
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): 06974499
• Release Decision: RIFPUB
• Original Classification: U
• Document Page Count: 14
• Document Creation Date: July 13, 2023
• Document Release Date: September 20, 2022
• Case Number: F-2022-01492
• Publication Date: April 10, 1964

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10 April 1964, 1135-1153 hours - Langley
DCI, Mr. Manchester, and Mr. Chretien
GUEST (continuing): --a great many people did, and--
DCI: If I did put anything in the file -- I'm not sure that I did
� but subject to that review it will take a few minutes for the girls
to get it. Let me give you a recount of my recollection.
It was Friday, the 22nd, and this was the Friday before Thanks-
giving. I had planned to leave on a five g'clock plane to go the West
Coast so that I could spend the Thanksgiving week in connection with
some of our affairs there and also to visit my home, which is in Pasadena.
Mrs. Mc Cone was in Seattle and was going to join me that evening. My
morning was consumed with a meeting with the President's Foreign Intel-
ligence Advisory Board. And upon finishing with them I came out to
the building here and was having lunch in my alternate office with General
Carter and the other principal Deputies, reviaving the discussion with the
President's Board. Mr. Elder came in and said that the flash report had
just been received that the President had been shot. He could not say
whether it was an hysterical (rumor) or what it was. I immediately turned
on the television, which was right in the room and what you saw on all
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stations was just a flash report the President's been shot, stand by --
you'll recall that. I picked up the phone and called the Attorney General
who said that he was at home and asked if I would come right over.
GUEST: You called him at his home?
DCI: Well I called him through the White House. When I got him
at his home he told me he was at home and he asked if I would come
right over. I put in one other call, and that was to Mrs. McCone in
Seattle. I found her at a meeting and informed her of the rumor and told
her to keep accessible to our operator and that we would keep her posted,
and left at once for the Attorney General's home, which is only about a
five minutes' drive from here, as you know. The Attorney General and
Mrs. Kennedy were alone and they were in the library on the second floor.
The Attorney General and Mrs. Kennedy and I, too, were speechless. I
asked the Attorney General if he knew ho seriously the President had
been hurt, and he said no, did L And I said I did not know. With that the
phone rang in the library and he picked up the phone, and he said "Oh he's
dead." This was the first news that he had received that his brother was
actuaUy dead.
GUEST: Do you remember his tone of voice?
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DCI: His tone of voice was one of being just aghast, as though
he had received unbelievable news.
GUEST: Did you know who was calling him?
DCI: I don't know who called him, no, and I di ask him. He
talked for two or three minutes on the phone. During that time Mrs.
Kennedy and I retired to the other side of the room to give him as much
privacy as possible. He then -- he was very stoical about it -- he was
obviously shaken to an unbelievable degree but retained his composure
in a most remarkable manner, in my opinion. He called his brother --
that was the first call that he made. His brother was not in his office
but was located within a matter of minutes, and he told his brother that
the President was dead. They made arrangements then to notify various
embers of the family, with the Attorney General calling some and
Senator Kennedy calling others. The Attorney General called his mother,
as I remember. He also called Mrs. Kennedy's sister in London.
GUEST: You mean Lee Mrs. John Kennedy's sister?
DCI: Yes, Mrs. Tohn Kennedy's sister - Radziwill. There was
almost nothing we could say to one another. We were seized with the horror
of it, and it was hard to believe that such an incredible event could happen.
GUEST: Did others then arrive?
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DCI: No, no one arrived for some time. We talked for sometime
and telephone calls would come in. And finally Mrs. Kennedy -- Mrs.
Robert Kennedy -- had a problem of picking up some of their children,
because it was getting along about the time when they were out of school.
The Attorney General insisted that she go on and do that, and that I would
stay with him. She was reluctant to leave him, and made various pro-
testations and tried to convince him that a substitute would do it - someone
else could do it, but he insisted that it would be better for her and better
for the children ...... if she would pick them up as she did -- so she left.
The Attorney General and I then went out into his yard and we
walked for a long time and talked about a great many things. This talk
was punctuated by these phone calls that would come in. And if you know
the layout of the grounds, he has a. White House phone in the corner of the
swimming pool and one in the corner of the tennis court. And we walked
back and forth in that field, and he would go and take a call in one place
or another. He had other problems. He talked with President Iohnson
and there was a question of the procedure for swearing in President
Xohnson.
GUEST: Pm of the problem � do you want me to di o?
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DCI: Well, yes -- well Ting had his finger on it, I think1 I'd
like to find out what kind of a spooks that thing is.
He contacted his office -- and I've forgotten just who in that office
o find out exactly who could or should administer the oath. He found
that any Federal judge could do it, and he transmitted that information
together with appropriate references so they could get the exact oath down
to Dallas. He insisted that the swearing in be done immediately. I think
President Johnson felt the same way. He did not want the country to go for
the two hours and a half that President Johnson would be in the air without
a President. And that was arranged. This involved several telephone calls.
I ppose that I was there for two hours. During that time a Catholic priest
came over -- probably his parish priest � I did not know him and I've
forgotten his name. He shook hands with him and offered his condolence
and then went away. There was nothing he could do. He obviously sensed
that the Attorney Generai was deeply involved in the myriad of problems
that arose almost at once, you know -- his concern over Mrs. Xacqueline
nnedy, his concern over the swearing in of the President. There was a
period a half an hour, I suppose, that he was debating whether to fly to
Dallas himself fo return with the body and with Mrs. Kennedy. I urged that
he not do that, stating that there was an element of time -- that the best
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thing to do would be to bring the President's body up as quickly as
possible, as quickly as it could be released, and he couldn t possibly get
down there for three or four hours, by the time he got aboard a plane and
got down there, and he would be out of touch all the time that he was in
the air. He agreed with this, and as a result either decided or agreed
with the decision that the body should be brought up with President Johnson
and Mrs. Kennedy just as quickly as possible.
Throughout this ordeal -- and I think it was as severe an ordeal
as a man could go through -- he never cracked -- he was steely -- and he
was obviously deeply and seriously affected -- at no time did his voice
crack, nor did he break down or lose his composure. This impressed me
very, very much.
Then Mrs. Kennedy returned and others started to arrive -- one
or two people came out from his office, and others were arriving, and
so I left. I think I left about half past three, or it might be a little bit
later than that -- I don't know the exact time.
GUEST: Mrs. Kennedy returned with the children.
DCI: Returned with the children.
GUEST: How was. Mrs. Kamedy's (demeanor) e or) during this period,
do you recall?
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DCI: How was her w4a
GUEST: How was her composure?
DCI: She was composed - she was composed -- deeply affected
and greatly worried about him. Both of them profoundly worried about
Mrs. John Kennedy, and time and time again said, of those two
poor children -- how their father adored them and how they adored their
father." The problems of State gave way to the inaudible due to
coughing
that seizes
saw careful
normal expressions of love and concern for loved ones
family in an hour of tragedy. So through those hours you
ention to important matters of State on the one hand, and a
type of grief and concern for the family, and for the loss to the family and
to the mother, that comes with any ordinary family--
GUEST: The personal tragedy.
DCI: The personal tragedy.
GUEST: At the time that you first spoke to him on the telephone,
had he heard the news elsewhere?
DCI: Yes, held heard the news.
GUEST: I had been told � although I have&t checked this with
that I Edgar Hoover had called him, and--
DCI: He might have. I don't know who called him.
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GUEST: The gentleman who came into your meeting that Friday
afternoon with the news -- to enter a meeting of that sort I presume he
was one of your aides or a member of your staff.
DCI: It was Walter Elder, my Executive Assistant.
GUEST: I see.
DCI: We were having lunch in this room,and his office is the
office below my secretary's, and he came dashing in, and then I turned
on the television right there.
GUEST: Did you at this time have any official concerns of your
own with regard to this tragedy, in the Early moments when it was not
(clearly) known who had been responsible for this attack?
DCI: Well I had -- naturally, in that short drive, from here to
there, you wonder who could be responsible for a thing like this. Was
this the result of bigotry and hatred that was expressed in certain areas
of the country, of which Dallas was one? Was this an international plot?
GUEST: Well the second, of course, would have been of great
concern to you, officially.
DCI: Yes. Was this an international plot? What was this? And
of course this was a question that plagued us day and night for a long time.
I don't recall that I reached an immediate judgment (in) thought -- in other
words, I don't recall what I (said)
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GUEST: But then later the word came in that e accused
assassin had been to Russia and had been identified with the Castro
group, or had so identified himself. This then probably called for
further--
DCI: Well following this, then, of course we went to work in
depth on this thing to determine whether Oswald had any association or
was receiving direction from any external (brains), and the FBI of course
were doing the same with respect to internal (brains). And there were
days there where we didn't know. There were of course conflicting
reports, and quite naturally when the main source of information was
murdered, as he was the next day -- or two days later -- I've forgotten
it was Sunday--
GUEST: Sunday, actually.
DCI: --as he was on Sunday, there were a great many conflicting
reports of association and so forth, that came to us. This is understan ble,
because nothing could be proven, nothing could be checked, so people get
so convinced themselves that something is a fact that they feel that they
must convey them. I know we had a great deal of ......
GUEST: I understand that before the ceremonies on Monday, before
waWng to St. Matthews, that you received what was described to me --
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and I know nothing about the Central elligence Agency, so this may
be wrong -- an Al.A is that correct? -- at any rate, a high priority
report that there would be an attempt on General DeGaulle's life as he
was
to St. Matthews, and that you relayed that to him with the
help of MeBundy's French.
DCI: That's correct.
GUEST: ;141� didn't tell me this.
anower person.
DCI: I want to tell you that I don't think that we received any
report of that nature that we would place, in retrospect, a top evaluation
on as being absolutely dependable intelligence. We received several
reports that morning of attempts that wouldd, be made on DeGaulle and
on others, and while we could not evaluate the reports, I felt personally
that if anything of that nature did happen it would so shock an already
shocked world that every precaution should be taken to make it impossible.
For that reason McBundy suggested that General DeGatille, if for no other
reason than respect for his friend who funeral he was attending consider
ding with President Tolmson instead of walking. DeGa.ulle preferred to
walk � which was not an unexpected reaction.
GUEST: But when you said you'd received reports, surely if the
report was important enough to be conveyed to General DeGaulle it had
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greater substance
e kind of anonymous telephone calls
that were corning in to the District police that day. A report here does
have something behind it, doesn't it?
DCI: Well I think that we had no reports other than these telephone
call that the police were dealing with -- they were about the same.
GUEST: And you approached the General on the strength of these?
DCI: Yes, that's right. Our reports came out of New York, and
they were ominous � . inaudible due to airplane noise......
GUEST: Out of New York as an intelligence center perhaps
relaying it from elsewhere - they wouldn't necessarily be from New
York sources,
DCI: That ight.
GUEST:. Well is the phrase, AlA h means nothing
is this correct or incorrect?
DCI: That's -- I don't know � but comment) on any AlA.
GUEST: I see. Okay. But your official concerns here, and to the
Central Intelligence Agency, did not prevent you from attending the official
ceremonies in connection with the funeral at the rotunda and at the funeral?
DCI: No. I was at the White House, and I had a procedure set up
so that all reports tha.t were received were brought to me immediately while
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I was at the VJhite House waiting for e body to come down to the Capitol,
and during that time I was in touch with Bundy and others concerning these
reports. I think there were three or four of them. Three or four times
my courier, who was in the basement of the White House with a direct line,
sought me out of about a hundred people, I think, in the White House, to give
me a message.
GUEST: And there were reports of threats on others besides
President De Gaulle?
DCI: The reports centered principally around DeGaulle, but the
reports were that we could expect attacks on others including President
Yoh/loon.
GUEST: Is It inappropriate for me to ask whether a subsequent
eli&t1on of these reports indicated that they were ill-founded or that the
security precautions discouraged what may have been a very real attempt?
DCI: I don't thi
The security precautio
that we made a thorough and a formal evaluation.
ere extensive. However, since there was no
attempt ade whatsoever to penetrate the security arrangements we
concluded that the reports were spurious and not dependable.
GUST Do you recall your own � and I know you're busy, and
this will be the last question -- do you recall your own emotional state
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that Friday when you were with the Attorney General and Mrs. Kennedy
at their home?
DCI: Yes, it was one first of shock. Second, a deep sadness over
the personal loss of President Kennedy. And a very great concern over
the country because of having thrust upon it the frightening problems of a
new Chief Executive taking over. In retrospect I feel that my concern over
this latter point -- that I had over-reacted, but that's because of the very
great skill that has been demonstrated by President Johnson in taking over
the reins of Government--
GUEST: Who was very soon in touch with you, I am sure.
DCI (continuing): with a very minimum of trouble.
Yes, I saw President Johnson the next morning. I did not see him
that evening when he arrived - I saw him the next morning, and I saw him
every day for a long time - sometimes several times a day.
GUEST: Thank you so much, sir.
DCI: If you need any other -- if you want to talk again about it,
I'JU be happy to--
GUEST: Well thank you. P11 be with this for a very long time,
GUEST: (You covered everythingexcept perhaps one thing you
remember when these reports were coming in you made available 102 of
oux ecuz'ity officers to stay at Secret Service to help out?
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DCI Yes, 102 or 103.
GUE T: Yeso. can check that exact-
DCI: Yes, check It -- because we threw all of our available
e0. into the security effort.
GUEST: Either Secret Service or State Security.
GUEST: I understand.
You were very kind, sir. Thank you again.
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