MEMORANDUM OF MEETING WITH EUGENE B. WILHELM ON 1 JULY

• Document Type: FOIA
• Collection: FOIA Collection
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): 06038688
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: U
• Document Page Count: 4
• Document Creation Date: March 8, 2023
• Document Release Date: June 13, 2019
• Case Number: F-2016-01131
• Publication Date: July 1, 1952

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MEMORANDUM OF MEETING WITI1 EUGENE B. WILHELM ON 1 JULY
At 1500 attended a meeting with Wilhelm,
OSI, Jean W. Moreau of OCD, and Theodore M. Nord-
beck, Acting Chief, Division of Acquisition and Distribution of the
office of the Special Assistant--Intelligence, Department of State.
As reported in my memorandum of 25 June, the purpose of this meeting
was to ask Mr. Nordbeck to fill us in on what lay behind the 3 June
letter written to the DCI by W. Park Armstrong, Jr.
2. Nordbeck said that there were three reasons for writing the
letter:
a. Because the State Department had received an informal
suggestion from CIA that it should get on the ball and become
more effective in fulfilling its collection obligations under
NSCID-10.
b. Dr. JosephT. Koepfli, Science Adviser, has felt that he
must begin to utilize his science attaches to support intelligence
so that somebody else does not imize the initiative and upset the
relationship that his office is trying to encourage between U.S.
and foreign science.
e. Reber indicated that it might be appropriate for State
to write a letter requesting assistance from CIA in accordance
with NSCID-10.
3. Wilhelm quickly referred the meeting to the sub paragraph5at
the end of page 2 and on page 3 and invited discussion first of all on
a. Nordbeck said that State did not need any financial support to
assist in the collection of scientific publications, with the possible
exception of occasional prices of subscription. Moreau said that he
felt that the science attaches were certainly picking up scientific
literature but that they were probably keeping it for themselves. At
this point Nordbeck emphasized that the science attaches have no in-
structions to pick up such literature, as this is the responsibility
of the Publications Procurement Officer This responsibility is
clearly described in the Berkner Report, and science attache would
only enter the picture to guide the purchases of the PPO's. Nordbeck
continued on to say that he considered the real problem was a lack
of clear-cut instructions from CIA. said that he felt that (W(1)
there was something to be said on both sides, in other words, that (b)(3)
material probably was being picked up which didn't get to intelligence
and that clear-cut instructions were lacking. then continued (W(1)
on to throw another element into the discussion for consideration. (b)(3)
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maintains that duplication is not a crime so long as proper
arrangements are made for absorption of the duplicate conies of m7te
rials received in the U.S. It was generally agreed that
thought was sound and that the mechanics for handling scientific pub-
lications could be improved tb insure wider distribution and more
general availability of literature to scientists. Nordbeck maintained
that within Moscow the PPO was picking up everything within the limits
of his capacity to do so. The limitation is manpower, and felt
that there should be another man assigned to support the effort in
Moscow, as some of the more useful Soviet literature appears in very
limited editions, and unless somebody la constantly touring the book
stores and snapping things up when they come out, he is likely to
miss a good deal of material.
4. With reference to b., the CIA contingent was inclined to feel
that the scientific attaches would be much more useful to CIA if they
were thoroughly briefed by OSI before going to their posts. Nordbeck
says that Koepfli is still opposed to this being done. Koepfli main-
tains that the fostering of international scientific relations is the
job of the scientific attaches, and he apparently feels that their ap-
proach to this job would be warped if they received intelligence in-
doctrination before leaving the U.S.
5. With reference to c., maintained that the placing over-
seas of known and competent speei is s to cover specific fields of
science is exactly what OSI has been doing. Nordbeck countered by
maintaining that the scientists briefed by OSI are tainted with intel-
ligence, and furthermore, he doubted that really first-rate scientists
would agree to undertake an intelligence mission. Nordbeck maintains
that if first-rate U.S. scientists are permitted to spend two or three
months abroad, they will be talking to their peers in foreign science
and will inevitably get information of value to intelligence.
took issue with this statement and said that by and large it is a
waste of money to send people abroad without a thorough briefing.
At a later point in the meeting admitted that in the field of
BW and possibly of medicine, if arrangements could be made for scien-
tists to spend upwards of a year abroad, it will not be necessary to
brief them, aS men in these particular fields will act as effective
VACUUM cleaners of information, and their take plus their analysis
of it will be helpful; however, these will be the exception. To a
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suggestion from Nordbeck that it might be possible to have CIA sup-
ply the briefing questions to the Science Adviser so that they would
not realize they were being briefed, ob-
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jected and maintained that such persiflage never worked out,partieu-
larly, because in order to fulfill its
mission, the would eventually get in touch with the
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scientist and it would inevitably become apparent that the Science
Adviser was working hand in glove with intelligence.
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6. With reference to d., the
program of debriefing scientists and engineers is the responsibility
of the and we cannot see that any useful purpose
will be served by building up another organization to duplicate our
effort. epeated that Dr. Joyce had suggested that
in the case of persons returning from the Biochemistry Congress, if
they stopped in at Washington and wished to give intelligence infor-
mation, he would tell them that such information was of interest to
intelligence and would call to arrange for repre-
sentation at the meeting. Maintains that this system
or merely the supplying of names would seem
to be adequate. Nordbeck maintained that he would regard information
developed by the Science Adviser as coming under the by-product
clause of_Liguaa.. Maintained that it seemed like
an abnormal interpretation of the intent of the by-product clause
to supply funds or countenance the setting up of a new activity for
the specific purpose of supplying by-product intelligence, particu-
larly, as the office involved happens to be one .which is so afraid
of the taint of intelligence.
7. With reference to (top defined the three types of in-
ternational congresses as: first, official congresses; second, con-
gresses where the Department of State cooperated with the international
body interested in the congress and sent an official delegation; third,
miscellaneous other congresses which it would be good to have covered
by U.S. scientists in an unofficial capacity.
that, with regard to the third category, he had proposed to Dr. Joyce
that Dr. Joyce supply a list of the names to the Contact Division
of those persons the Science Adviser considered should be persuaded
to represent the U.S. The Contact Division would then check security
and OSI interests and would then approach scientists on the list with
a questiv,as tokeh!sthtItthey plan to go to the congress. If they
said no ;-taaV-ti-n4jea-c-4,b.at they werelEort of funds, we could take it
from there. In the rare instances where they were short of funds yet
would not go for intelligence, we could refer them to the Science
Adviser.
8. During the course of a general discussion,
defined traveling scientists as falling within three categories:
a. Scientists given specific intelligence missions which
would require them to work closely with ttlesecure assistance
from US officials abroad. These he said should be considered
as consultants, and the question as to whether or not they
represent intelligence is somewhat academic, as foreign scien-
tists will inevitably believe that any information given to a
U.S. Government representative will be given to intelligence.
b. Scientists who have natural cover through their own
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interests and a natural ability to get entree to other scientists
and scientific installations through their pre-eminence in the
field or the stature of the organization for which they work.
These are true sources, will be briefed on a very discreet basis,
will be carefully instructed not to get involved with U.S. of-
ficials abroad or in any other fashion jeopardize their natural
cover.
c. Other scientists who it is decided should not be briefed
but who will be approached upon their return.
9. Moreau asked if many scientists were not briefed because they
objected to the taint of intelligence, and the answer to this has to
be somewhat of an evasion. Actually,
one or two instances where the thought of making a contribution of
intelligence was repugnant to the scientist; however, a scientist does
occasdionally say that he feels he is pretty well acquainted with our
interests and prefers not to be given specific questions as to be given
classified knowledge may constrain him in his dealings with other sci-
entists. He feels that he will normally ask most of the questions we
might think of, but if we have told him that they are of interest to
intelligence, he will immediately be afraid to talk freely in case he
is giving something away, In answer to a further question from Moreau,
we would not normally sponsor such travelers
although in the case or a man like Bolt, we might see fit to augment
the sponsorship of others if the intelligence community felt that some
extension of an itinerary would beam fruit for intelligence.
10. Wilhelm plans to invite the assistance of the CIA members
present in framing a draft reply to Armstrongts letter, which its will
go over in detail with Nordloeck before it is put in final form. It
was agreed that this would be appropriate in as much as Nordbeck can-
not help but be pretty much in the middle on this whole question. At
one point he admitted rather ruefully that, while he was over here, all
our arguments sounded good, but he also has great respect for Koepflits
arguments supported by the weight of Koepfliis personal experience.
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