POINT PAPER FOR THE DIRECTOR'S MEETING WITH AMBASSADOR GODLEY, 18 JULY 1970, 1030 HOURS

• Document Type: FOIA
• Collection: FOIA Collection
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): 02109640
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: U
• Document Page Count: 25
• Document Creation Date: December 28, 2022
• Document Release Date: February 8, 2018
• Case Number: F-2016-01079
• Publication Date: July 18, 1970

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MEMORANDUM FOR: Mr. Maury
Background papers used by the Director
and Ambassador Godley for the
Ambassador's appearance before the
Senate Sub-Committee on U.S. Security
Agreements and Commitments Abroad.
These are FYI.
(DATE)
FORM NO.
101
REPLACES FORM 10.101
1 AUG 54 WHICH MAY BE USED.
(47)
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EYES-ONLL
MEMORANDUM FOR : Director of Central Intelligence
VIA : Deputy Director for Plans
SUBJECT : Point Paper for the Director's Meeting with
Ambassador Godley, 18 July 1970, 1030 hours
1. In preparation for Ambassador Godley's appearance as
a witness before the Senate Sub-Committee on U.S. Security
Agreements and Commitments Abroad, we have participated in
the inter-agency committee and had two independent sessions with
Ambassador Godley during the evenings of 15 and 16 July. During
these two evening sessions, Ambassador Godley has reviewed the
transcripts of the Director's testimony before the Symington
Sub-Committee on 28 October 1969 and the Director's testimony
before the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations on 13 March and
7 July 1970. In addition, Ambassador Godley has reviewed
pertinent portions of the Director's back-up notebooks for these
hearings. In. addition, we have arranged for an OCI briefing on the
morning of 18 July prior to his visit with you and a last-minute
current intelligence briefing on the morning he is to appear before
the Symington Sub-Committee. We have also been asked to be
available for additional discussions on his testimony during the
forthcoming weekend.
2. In support of Ambassador Godley's testimony CIA has
provided the following materials and fact sheets which are in
response to questions submitted by Senator Symington to the
Secretary of State:
a. A map depicting the current situation of enemy and
friendly forces and their respective Controlled areas in Laos.
MVP 1
Licluded tr:mautic
� %lavingrallinf,,
detluslticallel ,
(b)(1)
(b)(3)
SECREF,ENSITIVE
EVCC II V
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� EYNLY
c. Budget figures for Vientiane Station overhead support
for fiscal year 1970 and fiscal year 1971.
d. A budget spread sheet for the current level of U.S.
government (CIA) support to the Meo irregular forces.
e. A fact sheet on the Laos paramilitary force level
projection for fiscal year 1971.
3. In addition we have provided a fact sheet on the Thai infantry
and artillery units deployed to Laos giving the dates of their deploy-
ment, their vital statistics and budget data. We have provided the
same information for the Sierra Romeo IX Thai artillery battalion.
We have also provided budgetary data for the Thai Black Panther
Division and the Thai personnel assigned to Headquarters 333 at
Udorn, Thailand and used by us in Laos. This information is
consistent with your previous testimony.
4. During your discussion with Ambassador Godley, the
following points of discussion will probably be raised:
a. Thai infantry and artillery units in Laos: As we understand
it, Assistant Secretary of State Marshall Green briefed Mr. Carl
Marcy, staff aide to the Senate Committe.e on Foreign Relations, on
the introduction of the Sierra Romeo IX artillery battery and the
subsequent deployment of the first 800-man Thai infantry battalion
into Long Tieng. When the subsequent infantry units and one
additional artillery battery were introduced, the State Department
checked with the White House and was advised that they should not
brief the Senate on the introduction of these additional Thai units.
Ambassador Godley will be, of course, questioned on the presence of
Thai troops in Laos. The Committee has not been officially advised
of the presence of the additional infantry and artillery units.
b. Ambassador Godley has raised with his
desite to have a CIA officer present at the hearing to provide him with
back-up information as required. He has been instructed to raise
this question with you. He was told, however, by that
this was not desirable and in fact the Ambassador would probably
be in a better position to finesse questions concerning CIA operations
if.a CIA officer was not present. The security problems and the
possible exposure of a CIA officer were also noted.
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EYES ONL
c. The provision of budget data: As noted above, one of
the Committee's questions concerned the operating costs for
fiscal year 1970 and fiscal year 1971 for each of the organizations
represented in Laos. Based on a review of your previous testimonies
we provided the cost figures for the paramilitary program in Laos
but did not give the Committee what is in effect the Station overhead.
Your guidance concerning the ground rules for Ambassador Godley's
use of CIA budgetary data would be most useful.
d. CIA irregular force level statistics: The statistics
we have provided Ambassador Godley Pr the Laos paramilitary
force level is a projection for fiscal year 1971. It is at slight
variance with the 36,000 figure you have previously provided the
Committee. It is based, however, upon a Vientiane Station submission
specifically p.repared for Ambassador Godley. Ambassador Godley
is aware of the figures you previous 7-- quoted but you may wish to
review with him any limitations you may wish to impose on the use of
these detailed statistics.
e. Laos involvement in Cambodia: It is believed Ambassador
Godley would benefit from a discussion with you of the Senate's
interest in U.S. government, and specifically CIA, involvement in
Cambodia.
Far East Division
cc: DDCI,, w/atts
Attachments:
A.
B. FY 70 and FY 71 Operating Costs
C. USG Support to Meo Irregular Forces
D. - Laos Paramilitary Force Level
E. Thai Infantry and Artillery Deployed to Laos
F. FY 70 and FY 71 Laos Paramilitary Operations
3
-grCRE-TgatSITIVE
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Attachment A
crro r-rlsr.NSITIVE
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Attachment B
(b)(1)
(b)(3)
taBET
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Attachment C
SECRET
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2. What is the current manpower situation of those forces?
During FY 70 Meo irregular forces had a projected force level of
18,062 personnel. However, the increased level of operations during
the year has, as of 11 July 1970, reduced the effective strength to the
following:
Category Strength
SGU 8,704
ADO 4,259
Combat SuppOrt 1,026
TOTAL 13,989*
*NOTE: The difference between the FY 70 force level and .current
effective strength represents losses due to casualties (killed, wounded,
captured, missing) or loss of contact.
C-
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tYLY-W1411
,Attachment D
15 July 1970
LAOS PARAMILITARY FORCE LEVEL
PROJECTION FOR FY 71
SGU1
Roadwatch Intelligence
ADC2 Personnel
MR I
3, 300 (6 battalions)
3,300 (11 battalions)
1,428
MR II
8,775 (16 battalions)3
525
MR III
5,500 (10 battalions)
1,200 (4 battalions)
680
MR IV
3,300 (6 battalions)
1,800 (6 battalions)
735
TOTAL
20,875
6,300 (21 battalions)
3,368
Commando
Raider �
Lao
Staff
ADO
Totals
MR I
120
132
661
8,941
MR II
120 .
175
5,405
15, 000
MR III
120
471
---
7,971
MR IV
120
143
400
6,498
TOTAL
480
921
6,466 ,
38,410
1SGU Battalion - 550 men
2ADC Battalion - 300 men
3Includes one 525-man intelligence battalion
ENSITIVE
CVPC
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CI rW1�
'Attachment E
15 July 1970
THAI INFANTRY AND ARTILLERY
Dates of Employment
Location
Weapons
Number of Personnel
Deployed
DEPLOYED TO LAOS
BI- 13
BI- 14
BA- 14
BI- 15
28 March 1970
19 April 1970
19 April 1970
10 May 1970
MR II - Long Tieng/Sam Thong Area
Four 105 mm howitzers
Approximately 2,600
SEC SENSITIVE
EYES
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C CO
SR IX BACKGROUND
Date of Employment March 1970
Location MR II - Long Tieng/Sam Thong Area
Weapons Four 105 mm howitzers
Four 155 mm howitzers
Number of Personnel
Deployed
Approximately 300
*Estimate based on percentage of ammunition sent to MR II.
2
SE SENSITIVE
FYFS
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(b)(3)
SE ENS1TIVE
EYES 0
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EYES 0
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Attachment F
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[CI /NSITIVt
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Memorandum for DCI
SUBJECT: Point Paper for DCI Mtg with Amb Godley
CFE /TBL:
Distribution:
1 - DCP w/att
1 - DDCI, w/att
1 DDP, w/att .
1 - ADDP, 'w/att
2 - CFE, w/att
- CFE/ TBIj, w/att
2 - FE/TBLL, w/att
jmw (17 July 70)
SECR ENS1TIVE
EYES Y
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16 July 1970
MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD
SUBJECT : Wolf Committee Meeting
DATE AND TIME : 16 July 1970, 1430 - 1700 hours
PURPOSE
: Preparation for Ambassador George McMurtrie
Godley, U.S. Ambassador, Vientiane, Laos,
to appear before the Senate Committee on U.S.
Security Agreements and Commitments Abroad
hearing on Laos
1. All agencies were represented. The first announcement was
by Mr. Joseph Wolf, the Committee chairman, who indicated that the
White House had instructed the Department of State to advise
Senator Symington that Ambassador Godley would appear before the
Committee providing they would agree to hold the hearing in
executive session, there would be one copy of the.transcript which
would be classified and held in custody by the State Department, and
there would be no publication of this testimony. (NB: After the
general meeting, the undersigned discussed this procedure with
Ambassador Godley and Mr. Wolf. This formula is, of course, the
same arrangement made with Senator Symington by the DCI and NSA.
Mr. Wolf was asked if they had considered the Ambassador McConaughy
formula wherein the session in which he discussed intelligence matters
was handled by the DCI arrangement and the remainder of his hearing
was edited by State and subsequently released. Both Mr. Wolf and
Ambassador Godley indicated that the White House had decided to
dig in its heels and force a confrontation and that the Department was
not authorized to make any compromises. If the Committee does not
accept the White House formula,� the Department has to return to the
White House for further instructions. )
SECRET
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2. Since this was the first meeting of the Wolf Committee
with Ambassador Godley present, Mr. Wolf briefly described the
public postures of the various senators on important political issues
and reviewed the ground rules which have applied to previous
testimony -- 1. e.:
a. No testimony on operational plans or contingency
plans.
b. No discussion of what the U.S. should or might do
subsequent to possible peace negotiations.
c. No discussion on the use of
d., Ambassador Godley cannot claim executive privilege.
e. The White House is not to be revealed as having
instructed the witness. The witness is to indicate that his instructions
are from the Secretary of State.
3. Ambassador Godley had.a draft statement which had been
prepared in the field which was then reviewed for controversial points.
This draft needs extensive work an.c1 is in process of being rewritten
by the several agencies. Portions pertinent to CIA will be highlighted
for CFE, DDP and DCI as appropriate prior to the final finished draft.
4. The Committee received a number of questions which must
be responded to by Ambassador Godley. A copy of these questions
is attached. The questions are dividedinto different categories.
There are 18 questions under six sub-headings -- Threat to Laos;
Written, Stated and Understood Commitment's; Military Assistance;
U.S. Forces, Facilities and Operations; U.S. Financial and Non-Military
Support and CAS. The five questions under Threat to Laos should be
carefully reviewed by CIA. We have been asked to provide the map
showing the current situation of friendly and enemy forces and
respective controlled areas in response to question three under
category two. There will be no requirement fo-r CIA input for the
2
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section under Militaiy Assistance. CIA will have,tan input in question
one -- Give the total number of U.S. military and-civilian personnel
in Laos -- under U.S. Forces, Facilities and Operations. This
question also asks for the FY 70 and projected FY 71 operating
costs for each of the organizations which specifically imludes CIA.
The specific questions under the sub-heading CAS are: What is the
current level of U.S. government support to the Meo irregular
forces and what is the current manpower situation of those forces.
We are currently preparing the input for these questions and reviewing
it against previous DCI testimony.
5. A briefing session of Ambassador Godley was held on the
evening of 15 July from 1945 hours until 0200 hours by Messrs. Devlin
and Strathern. A second session is planned for the evening of
16 July. The results of these briefing sessions will be made a matter
of record in.separate memoranda.
Chief, FE/TBL
� Attachment
List of Questions from Senator Symington
DDP:CFE/TBL
Distribution:
1 - DCI, w/att
1 - DDCI, w/att
1 - DDP, w/att
1 ADDP, w/att
2 - CFE, w/att
2 - CFE / TBL, w/att
2 --FE/TBLL, w/att
inaw (16 July 70).
3
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WASHINGTON. D.C. 20510
July 13, 1970
Honorable William P. Rogers
The Secretary of State
Washington, D.C. 20520
-Pear Mr. Secretary:
-Attached are some of the details with respect .
to the information we would appreciate receiving
incident to the planned hearing on Laos with
Ambassador Godley, scheduled for Tuesday,
July 21.
� �
We would of course appreciate any additional
information he could give us with respect to
these matters.
SS:ag
- (�\
Sincerely,
k /I
!
L\44
Stuar,t Sym.,,ngton
Chairman
� Subcommittee on United
States Security Agreements
-
and dommik.ments Abroad
sTuAR7symINGToN
c9e.
MtOUflI
a
STANLEY R. FIKE
AUMINI.STRATIVE AILTANT
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1.

4
POINTS TO BE covTaED BY EXECUTIVE BRANCH WITNESSES
IN PREPARED STATEMENTS
Foa THE .
SUBCOM=TEE ON U.S. SECURITY AGREEMENTS & COMMITMENTS ABROAD
HEARING ON LAOS
THREAT TO LAOS
1., Whose decision was it for Royal Lao Or irregular
forces to seize the Plain-of-Jars? What was .the purpose of
that effort? Did we encourage, approve or disapprove of that
action?
What was the short-term result of that action?
What has been the long-term result?
2. Who ordered the B-52 strike of the Plain of Jars?
What was the political -impact; t1eilitary impact?
�.
3. What are the basic communist threats to the. Royal
-Lao Government?
4. What threat, if any, exists to the Souvanfia gdvbrnment
from the right-wing Lao military?
5. Trace in detail on a momth-by-month basis the North
Vietn=ese/Pathet Lao activity in Laos since the overthrow
of Sihanoukv'
* * *
The foregoing specification of matters to be covered
should not be interpreted as limiting the presentation to such
items. The witness should take it, upon himself to assure that
the presentation is balanced by presenting other aspects which
he may thira are of equal or greater importance to those
..?ecified in the -foregoing questions.
9.
't�s'
be'
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POINT' TO BE COVERED BY EXECITIVE BRANCH WITNESSES
IN paEPz'a.L) STATEMENTS
FOR THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON U.S. SECURITY AGREEMENTS & COMM TMEN S ABROAD
EEARING ON LAOS
WRITTEN STATED & UNDERSTOOD COMMITMENTS
1 What position did the United States take with regard
to the reported Pathet 1,ao suggestion for a settlement?
2. What, if any, is the prgspt Thai participation in the
1 Lao war? What is the public and private response to United
States acknowledgement of its activities in Laos from the Royal
Lao Government? From the Soviet Union? From other nations?
L.-
3. Provde a map sl-owir ti.-- current situation of forces cAs
and controlled areas. C-A-5 D + A,
4. What agreements or-understandings between the United
States and the Royal Lao Governments preceded United States
evacuation of Lao civilians from the Plain of Jars?
� 5,
What was the purpose of the evacuation?- Who
developed the idea? How many people Were invol-ved?*- How
were they chosen? Did any persoils.refuse to .be evacuated?
Had any of those evacuated previously lived under the
Pathet Lao? Where were they taken?x 'What understandings or
plans exist for their return to their homes on the Plain of
Jars?'' How are they being supported?x What United States
support was involved ih fiscal year 1970?( What is being
programmed for fiscal year 1972.
The foregoing specification of matters to be covered
should not be interpreted as limiting the presentation to such
items. The witness should take it upon himself to assure that
the presentation is balanced by presenting other aspects which
he may think are of equal or greater importance to those
specified in the foregoing questions.
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POINTS TO LE covmED BY EXECUTIVE BRANCH WITNESSES
IN PREPARED .STATEMENTS
FOR THE
--S1.1300ITTEE. ON U.S. SECURITY AGREEMENTS & COMMITMENTS ABROAD
:HEARING. ON LAOS
MILITARY ASSISTANCE
.1.- Provide details for FY 1970 and projections for FY 1971
for the YAP. program for Laos. Include commodity breakout and tb� �
munitions tables include also the aircraft operationally
supported.
-2. What force levels have we support in in Laos since
1962 on �a year-by-year basis broken out by armies and major 66
commands?
3. Prince Souvazna Phouma recently announced plans to
reorganize thd Royal Lao Army. What does this entail? What
is to be the United States role in this reorganization? What
financial and materiel aid is expected from us? Were we con-
sulted or did we initiate this reorganization?
tr, ,
r * *
The foregoing specification of matters to be covered
should not be interpreted as limiting the presentation to such
items. The witness should take it upon himself to assure that
the presentation is balanced by presenting_other aspects which
he may think are of equal or greater importance to those
specified in the foregoing questions.
ek
���
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"POINTS TO BE OViDBY EXEC =IV E BRA.3.':;C H WITNESSES
T. N E:?A ED ST `:�.0 EV.ENT S
FOR TiE
suLc
I
CY:MIT T EE ON U.S.SECURITY REENTS & C C1.2 1ITI4ENTS ABROAD
HEARING ON LAOS
U� S FINANC1RU & N >.`.c .T. TARY SUPPORT
1. Bring up to date the United States edonoMic and Other
non-military assistance being given the Royal Lao government.
Provide annual figures and types of programs..?
�
CAS
1. .,71_21.i_atl, is the current level :of United States Government
_
_support to thMO i ular forees77
-2. What is the current manpower situation of those forces?
* *
t
$ �
rr L et
174.-,e foregoing specification of matters to be covered
should not be interpreted as limi,ting the presentation to such
itams. The witness should take it upon hilnself to assure that
the presentation is balanced by presenting other aspects which
he may think are of equal or greater importance to those
52ecified in the foregoing questions.
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POINTS TO BE Cd/ERED BY EXECUTIVE BRANCH WITNESSES
IN PREPARED STATEMENTS
Foa TEE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON U.S. SECURIT7 AGREEMENTS & COMMITMENTS'ABROAD
HEARING ON Y.AOS
U.S FORCES. OPERATIONS
1. As of the latest date possible, give the total number
of U.S. military and civilian personnel ia Laos. Indicate the
organization for whom they work (e.g., ARNA, Al CAS RO,
USAID, USIS, D. Chief, MACV, SGG) even though they may be
carried for administrative purposes under h different agency.
Give the approximate FY 1970 and projected FY 1971
operating costs (including military pay) for each of the
organizations referred to in the answer to paragraph one of
question 1. .
2. On a year-by-year basis since 1967, trace the number
of T-28s operated by the Royal Lao Air Force; the number of
sorties flown. Provide the cost of air MunitioAt-provilded by
the United States.
What limitation, if any, is there imposed or suggested
by the United States or U.S. advisors on the number of sorties
an ic,dividual Lao pilot or Lao-operated T-23 can fly per day?
3. Since 1964 on a year-by-year basis, provide the number
= U.S. Air Force and U.S. Navy air strikes in northern Laos
(Barrel Roll) and along the Ho Cu. Minh Trail (Steel Tiger).
Prov-_de those same statistics on a month-by-month basis since
September 1968.
* *
The foregoing specification of matters to be covered
should not be interpreted as limiting the presentation to such
items. The witness should take it upon :11i,:.self to assure that
the presentation is balanced by preenting other aspects which
he may think are of renter importance to those
specified in the foregoing
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C=1 SECRET
11,E, ,
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.44F-4ii:CY L j Lunn uENTI AL
. _ .
ROUTING AND RECORD SHEET .
SUBJECT: (Optional)
FROM:
EXTENSION
NO.
,
DATE
TYIDP/CrE /TBL
TO: (Officer designation, room number, and
building)
DATE
OFFICER'S
INITIALS
COMMENTS (Number each comment to show from whom
to whom. Draw o line across column after each comment.)
RECEIVED
FORWARDED
1.
Mr. Maury
Legiblative Counsel
-
D
cEC.r.�- - '---
2. Room 7D43, Hqs
3,
4.
5.
4... �, ,
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
FORM
3-62
61 A USE PREVIOUS
V EDITIONS
SECRET ri CONFIEWNTIAL ,
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