INTERROGATION OF AN ALLEGED CIA AGENT

• Collection: FOIA Collection
• Collection: Declassified Articles from Studies in Intelligence: The IC’s Journal for the Intelligence Professional
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): 0000619182
• Document Page Count: 8
• Document Release Date: July 30, 2014
• Case Number: F-2013-02322
• Publication Date: April 1, 1983

TITLE:AUTHOR:VOLUME:Approved for Release: 2014/07/29 000619182Interrogation of an Alleged CIA Agent(b)(3)(c)27 ISSUE: Spring YEAR: 1983Approved for Release: 2014/07/29 000619182pproved for Release: 2014/07/29 000619182STUDIES ININTELLIGENCEA collection of articles on the historical, operational, doctrinal, and theoretical aspects of intelligence. -All statements of fact, opinion or analysis expressed in Studies in Intelligence are those ofthe authors. They do not necessarily reflect official positions or views of the CentralIntelligence Agency or any other US Government entity, past or present. Nothing in thecontents should be construed as asserting or implying US Government endorsement of anarticle's factual statements and interpretations.Approved for Release: 2014/07/29 0006191820Approved for Release: 2014/07/29 000619182Al. versus Joe HardestywINTERROGATION OF AN ALLEGED CIA AGENT(b)(3)(c)The following is the transcript of the interview of JoeHardesty, believed to be an agent of the Central IntelligenceAgency, by an interrogator of a foreign power. The interrogatoris known as Al.A.I.: Welcome back, Joe, let me get your file. During our lastconversation you stated you were worried that I was violatingyour rights. . . . Do you think that was fair?Hardesty: It sure was.Al.: Why do you think that was a fair statement?Hardesty: You are trying to frame me.I don't feel that I am trying to frame you.Hardesty: You are a bastard and you know it.A.I.: Now, Joe, profanity serves no purpose.Hardesty: You are trying to set me up.A.I.: Are you fantasizing that I am trying to set you up, Joe?Hardesty: No way.A.I.: Really?Hardesty: Yes.A.I.: We discussed your government last time.Hardesty: No, we didn't.A.I.: I feel certain we did!Hardesty: I only said my government will protest your treatment of me.A.I.: What about your government?Hardesty: They will protest this once I tell them.A.I.: Who will protest once you tell them?Hardesty: My government.A.I.: Your government will protest once you tell them. . . of course.Hardesty: The State Department doesn't take kindly to this sort of thing.A.I.: I thought you meant your government.Hardesty: The State Department speaks for my government.A.I.: Why don't you discuss your activities since arriving here, Joe?Hardesty: I have been just like any other businessman doing my job.A.I.: Tell me about your job.Hardesty: I work for Worldwide Leasing, Inc., of New York City.A.I.: I understand. . . go on.Hardesty: We export things.49Approved for Release: 2014/07/29 000619182Approved for Release: 2014/07/29 000619182InterrogationGo on about your job.Hardesty: I arrange contracts to ship merchandise between the U.S. and yourcountry.Al.: I understand. . . go on.Hardesty: That's about it.What makes you say that's about it?Hardesty: That is what my job entails.A.I.: You seemed concerned about the time last time.Hardesty: Yes, you took up a great deal of my valuable time.A.I.: Tell me more about your time.Hardesty: I am a busy person and you wasted my time before.Al.: Go on, Joe.Hardesty: I have an important job and cannot waste time being harassed.A.I.: Why do you suppose you have an important job?Hardesty: Because my employers trust me.A.I.: Your employers trust you?Hardesty: Of course they trust me.A.I.: Who trusts you?Hardesty: Worldwide Leasing, Inc.A.I.: They trust you. . . of course.Hardesty: Yes, but why did you ask me here?A.I.: Why do you figure, Joe?Hardesty: I have no idea.A.I.: I am listening. . . you have no idea. . . go on.Hardesty: You either tell me or let me go.A.I.: You arrange freight shipments?Hardesty: That is what I am paid to do.A.I.: Because. . .Hardesty: I don't know what you mean.A.I.: There isn't another thing you are paid to do?Hardesty: No.A.I.: What other reason is there?Hardesty: None.A.I.: I am interested in your activities since you arrived.Hardesty: What about them?A.I.: What do you suspect, Joe?Hardesty: You must think I have broken the law.A.I.: Are you glad you have broken the law?Hardesty: I have not broken your laws.A.I.: Hollow you. . . you have not broken my laws. . please go on.Hardesty: Why did you summon me here.A.I.: Why do you wonder why, Joe?Hardesty: I do not know.50Approved for Release: 2014/07/29 000619182Approved for Release: 2014/07/29 000619182InterrogationWhy don't you know?Hardesty: I have no idea what goes on in your mind.A.I.: Why do you suppose you have no idea what goes on in my mind?Hardesty: I will leave unless you tell me what is the problem.A.I.: I understand . . . you will leave unless I tell you what is theproblem. . . go on.Hardesty: No.A.I.: No?Hardesty: Yes!A.I.: I am not certain you are taking this seriously, Joe. Would you talka bit more frankly.Hardesty: I will talk frankly when you tell me why you ordered me to come-here.A.I.: You are not impressing me with your integrity.Hardesty: Nor are you. Just tell me why you called me here.It's interesting that you have no idea.Hardesty: I haven't the slightest idea.A.I.: Let's go back to discussing your government.Hardesty: What is your interest in my government?A.I.: What do you tend to think is my interest in your government?Hardesty: I think you would do in my government if you had a chance.A.I.: You are prone to think I would do in your governmentbecause....Hardesty: You are anti-democratic.Are you fantasizing that I am anti-democratic, Joe?Hardesty: Not in the least.A.I.: I enjoy talking with you, Joe.Hardesty: I don't enjoy talking to you.A.I.: I am listening. . . you don't enjoy talking to me. . . please go on.Hardesty: I have no idea why you keep calling me in.A.I.: It is interesting that you have no idea why I keep calling you in.Hardesty: You tell me.A.I.: Why don't you discuss your activities since arriving here, Joe?Hardesty: I have been working for my firm and nothing else.A.I.: What about your firm?Hardesty: I told you all about it before.A.I.: Go on about your firm.Hardesty: How many times do I have to tell you?A.I.: I can't answer that.Hardesty: You bastards always have the answers.A.I.: Again, Joe, such language is unnecessary!Hardesty: I think it is necessary.51Approved for Release: 2014/07/29 000619182Approved for Release: 2014/07/29 000619182InterrogationWhy do you believe profanity is necessary?Hardesty: When dealing with people like you it is most appropriate.A.I.: We have reports your activities endanger our country.Hardesty: What do you mean?Al.: You know what I mean.Hardesty: No, I do not.A.I.: Why don't you?Hardesty: You raised the question.A.I.: Are you avoiding the truth about your firm?Hardesty: Of course not. Why do you ask that?A.I.: Why do you figure?Hardesty: I have no idea.A.I.: Should you have no idea?Hardesty: I suppose so.A.I.: You suppose so?Hardesty: Yes.A.I.: I understand. . . go on.Hardesty: May I go now?A.I.: What is your real occupation, Joe?Hardesty: Freight handler.A.I.: It is best you stop hiding things from us . . we know more thanyou think.Hardesty: What do you mean?A.I.: You know what I mean.Hardesty: Like hell I do.A.I.: Now, Joe, profanity is childish.Hardesty: Fine, may I go now?A.I.: You had better straighten out your attitude, Joe, or it will be along time before you ever leave this country.Hardesty: What do you mean by that crack?A.I.: You know what I mean.Hardesty: No, I do not.Think about it.Hardesty: Why?A.I.: Why do you want to know why?Hardesty: You made a threat and I want an explanation.A.I.: I think the message is clear.Hardesty: What message?A.I.: D9 you work for the American Central Intelligence Agency, Joe?Hardesty: Hell, no.A.I.: Why do you persist in lying to me?Hardesty: I am not lying. You have no right to treat me like this.52Approved for Release: 2014/07/29 000619182Approved for Release: 2014/07/29 000619182InterrogationOf course not.Hardesty: Since you agree with me, may I go?A.I.: So you are not lying. . . interesting.Hardesty: May I go now?A. I. : Who are your superiors at the CIA?Hardesty: I don't know what you are talking about.A.I.: You had better think about that statement before I make a recordof it.Hardesty: Go to hell.A.I.: Why so hostile?Hardesty: You have made me hostile even though I came here to cooperate.A.I.: Your hostile nature may be part of the problem, Joe.Joe Hardesty (not his real name) is not out of the woods yet, and when hissession with A.I. is finished for the day, he has full assurance there wAl_beanother session tomorrow and more in the days that follovv.-Whether Joe is in-nocent of the suspicions or is an American agent under cover is an obsessionwith A.I., and his efforts are tireless. His initials stand for Artificial Intelli-gence. He is a microcomputer.What appears above is excerpted from several experimental sessions by anintelligence officer with an Artificial Intelligence program known as ANALIZA2.Through sophisticated algorithms the program breaks down Joe's responsesand looks for key words and phrases in order to formulate a reply. In addition,it draws from its own internal question bank to direct the questioning to newtopics. Because it retains in its memory the topics covered, it will have moresurprises in store for Joe as the sessions continue; with time it becomesincreasingly more knowledgeable about Joe.Other aspects of the program are probing Joe's vulnerabilities. A.I. records-focus variables,- Joe's tendency to concentrate on various subjects, and-profile variables- to serve as indicators of Joe's hostility, inquisitiveness,talkativeness, and understandability, and to pose questions about these. A.I.also has a primitive capability to detect hostility and to exert certain defensivemeasures against it. It develops what are known as -reason strings- to carryforward statements of reasons and justification and to form abstract relation-ships?producing questions that correlate two or more facts gained in thecourse of the interview. Joe Hardesty will have a tough opponent over thecoming days if he is, indeed, attempting to defend an intelligence agent'scover story.The interactive interrogation seen in this article is still one of the moreprimitive uses of Artificial Intelligence. Researchers in Artificial Intelligencehave found it possible for computers, in a limited way, to become knowledge-based and to perceive and sense, learn, adapt, solve problems, pursue goals,process natural language, conduct interactive training, modify themselves orother computers, and do abstract reasoning. Artificial Intelligence applicationstoday include medical diagnosis, probabilities of minerals and oil in specifiedlocations, navigation, interpretation of satellite weather pictures, analysis of53Approved for Release: 2014/07/29 000619182Approved for Release: 2014/07/29 000619182InterrogationMolecules and robotics. It is applicable to any situation where expertinformation may be defined and methods or rules can be prescribed formatching and branching by the computer in doing its pseudo-thinking.Artificial Intelligence, as represented in a crude form by the ANALIZA2program, has a long way to go before it even approaches the merestcapabilities of humankind. Yet, as it evolves, intelligence officers should beprepared to consider its application in meeting training needs, as demon-strated by the Hardesty experiment, in defending an analytical thesis, or inany number of operational situations yet to be conceived.As for Joe Hardesty, he is fortunate that should the probing get toodiscomforting, he will have an option that will not be available to him in a trueoverseas interview situation?he can stop the questions with a flick of the-off" switch.54Approved for Release: 2014/07/29 000619182